Small arms and Light Weapons

[Vishalreddy3]

It takes in AK mags as well
I'm seriously of the opinion if the 203 doesn't see sunlight ( though it's too late at this point) they should go for the Ace
Edit:- it is a whole family of weapons and we have Atmanirbhartha on the table

Best part is the price comes down with massive orders plus the Technology Transfer is readily available!!!! Vietnam used it to their advantage despite having lesser budget.

 

[Maharaj samudragupt]

It takes in AK mags as well
I'm seriously of the opinion if the 203 doesn't see sunlight ( though it's too late at this point) they should go for the Ace
Edit:- it is a whole family of weapons and we have Atmanirbhartha on the table

It can manufactured by punj lloyad or whoever they are .

 

[Flying Dagger]

Better go for Ghatak or TAR or SSS rifle.

TAR yes SSS possibly but if we are opting for one stop solution then Galil is better option as it is more accurate and as reliable as ak.

Though I had take a look at Carmel too.

A 6.8 round Carbine version is something I am more interested in as it can effectively end the need of several ammo types.

 

[shuvo@y2k10]

Nah too much complains about quality among CAPFs!! Definitely won't get selected by the army.

On the contrary, both TAR and Ghatak have received great reviews among CRPF and state forces, who are planning to replace their Bulgarian AKs with it. . OFT started the development of the rifle in 2015, and established a production line in 2017. The first batch of 200 TARs was delivered to Chandigarh police in March 2017. In November 2017, the CRPF tested the rifle for functionality and reliability. It was subjected to a life cycle test by firing 15,000 rounds in one go. In February 2018, the TAR was deployed for a field trial at Jagdalpur, Raipur, Guwahati and Srinagar. Following this, order for 6167 rifles were placed. OFB Trichy has even developed a carbine version of TAR, and a grenade launcher for TAR based on their request.

 

[Flying Dagger]

On the contrary, both TAR and Ghatak have received great reviews among CRPF and state forces, who are planning to replace their Bulgarian AKs with it. . OFT started the development of the rifle in 2015, and established a production line in 2017. The first batch of 200 TARs was delivered to Chandigarh police in March 2017. In November 2017, the CRPF tested the rifle for functionality and reliability. It was subjected to a life cycle test by firing 15,000 rounds in one go. In February 2018, the TAR was deployed for a field trial at Jagdalpur, Raipur, Guwahati and Srinagar. Following this, order for 6167 rifles were placed. OFB Trichy has even developed a carbine version of TAR, and a grenade launcher for TAR based on their request.

Ghatak was chosen due to cost factor and to support OFB. There isn't much praise for it.

TAR on the other hand is definitely a better option and with some ergonomic modifications can replace namesake AK 203 we are getting and provide better option.

It's just even they are asking over 1000 dollar a piece. But yes that can be chipped down if we mass produce.

We can do the same with Galil Ace too so why not move on to something better that's already available.

 

[shuvo@y2k10]

Ghatak was chosen due to cost factor and to support OFB. There isn't much praise for it.

TAR on the other hand is definitely a better option and with some ergonomic modifications can replace namesake AK 203 we are getting and provide better option.

It's just even they are asking over 1000 dollar a piece. But yes that can be chipped down if we mass produce.

We can do the same with Galil Ace too so why not move on to something better that's already available.

Regarding Ghatak, there is a first hand review by our forum moderator Kunal Biswas, who confirmed that it is a 1B1 in a AK skin.

Ghatak Assault Rifle in Person ( Review )

Unexpected at best, Again... :) Was preparing to visit my friends at Delhi, When one of ours Senior member From DFI informed about a defense exhibition was going on at Delhi :cool3:, Though it was not a priority but I visited the exhibition, Where I spotted OFB stall and a black rifle, It has a...

defenceforumindia.com

There isn't any negative reviews about it from the state forces, though it can be said that TAR has better finish and a more compact design, but reduced range (300 vs 400 m) compared to Ghatak. Ghatak is more similar to an AKM with stamped receiver, while TAR is more close to Bulgarian AR-M5.

If you have any source claiming negative operational experience with Ghatak please do share here.

Also, AK 203 if produced in bulk, the price won't come down, because for each rifle the russians are demanding 200$ royalty. They won't allow OFB to sell it at a price, which is lesser than their own selling price.

Regarding Galil ACE, it is a pimped up version of the old Galil which was based on AK platform. The Israelis themselves have rejected Galil a long time back. Rather, than wasting money on this, any pimped up INSAS MK1C variant (in 7.62*39 mm caliber) will be much better option. Also, due to the negative import list, if the AK203 deal is formally cancelled, it will be an indigenous rifle, be it from ghatak, TAR, INSAS variant, SSS Defence etc. No other foreign rifle be imported except for may be a small number for special forces.

 

[Flying Dagger]

Regarding Ghatak, there is a first hand review by our forum moderator Kunal Biswas, who confirmed that it is a 1B1 in a AK skin.

Ghatak Assault Rifle in Person ( Review )

Unexpected at best, Again... :) Was preparing to visit my friends at Delhi, When one of ours Senior member From DFI informed about a defense exhibition was going on at Delhi :cool3:, Though it was not a priority but I visited the exhibition, Where I spotted OFB stall and a black rifle, It has a...

defenceforumindia.com

There isn't any negative reviews about it from the state forces, though it can be said that TAR has better finish and a more compact design, but reduced range (300 vs 400 m) compared to Ghatak. Ghatak is more similar to an AKM with stamped receiver, while TAR is more close to Bulgarian AR-M5.

If you have any source claiming negative operational experience with Ghatak please do share here.

Also, AK 203 if produced in bulk, the price won't come down, because for each rifle the russians are demanding 200$ royalty. They won't allow OFB to sell it at a price, which is lesser than their own selling price.

Regarding Galil ACE, it is a pimped up version of the old Galil which was based on AK platform. The Israelis themselves have rejected Galil a long time back. Rather, than wasting money on this, any pimped up INSAS MK1C variant (in 7.62*39 mm caliber) will be much better option. Also, due to the negative import list, if the AK203 deal is formally cancelled, it will be an indigenous rifle, be it from ghatak, TAR, INSAS variant, SSS Defence etc. No other foreign rifle be imported except for may be a small number for special forces.

Who told you TAR had reduced range in comparison to Ghatak ?

Apparently the earlier TAR model had 400 m range the new one has similar like Ghatak or Bulgarian one 300 m accuracy but better built. The selection had more to do with OFB influence and politics.

2. What do you mean Galil Ace is a pimped up version ? It's a better refined AK which is globally accepted, there are various reviews available on it infact Viets decided to replace their Aks with Galil which has better accuracy than traditional Aks.

Israel have lots of rifle which they don't use since they have moved on to TAVOR which provide ergonomic advantage to their soldiers and is well handled by them. They aren't moving to any conventional rifle so Galil had absolutely no chance there.

And we have Galil in house production by PLR. Infact the new Carmel and even ARAD is available too.

You want INSAS in 7.62 NATO round you got OFB R2 . But am sure Army won't go to that foolish route.

For AK round we already have copied Bulgarian Arsenal no need to go back to INSAS route and bring the ghost back.

 

[shuvo@y2k10]

What do you mean Galil Ace is a pimped up version ? It's a better refined AK which is globally accepted, there are various reviews available on it infact Viets decided to replace their Aks with Galil which has better accuracy than traditional Aks.

Galil is reliable beacuse it shares the same DNA as AK hich is the gold standard as far as reliability is concerned. So is Ghatak and TAR which have demonstrated it by firing over 15000 rounds in CRPF/MHA trials.


As far as its comparison to INSAS is concerned which internally is also based on AK like Galil, it evolution called R2 went head to head with Galil. The result is as follows:

And we have Galil in house production by PLR. Infact the new Carmel and even ARAD is available too.

That is a screwdriver giri job, similar to OFB AK-203 deal which looks to be in jeopardy.

For AK round we already have copied Bulgarian Arsenal no need to go back to INSAS route and bring the ghost back.

I am also saying the same thing. For 7.62*39 mm needs, we have TAR and Ghatak. Bringing Galil into the equation is worse than bringing INSAS into equation.

 

[Flying Dagger]

Galil is reliable beacuse it shares the same DNA as AK hich is the gold standard as far as reliability is concerned. So is Ghatak and TAR which have demonstrated it by firing over 15000 rounds in CRPF/MHA trials.


As far as its comparison to INSAS is concerned which internally is also based on AK like Galil, it evolution called R2 went head to head with Galil. The result is as follows:



That is a screwdriver giri job, similar to OFB AK-203 deal which looks to be in jeopardy.



I am also saying the same thing. For 7.62*39 mm needs, we have TAR and Ghatak. Bringing Galil into the equation is worse than bringing INSAS into equation.

1. Why wasn't INSAS as reliable as an AK then ? Kuch bhi ??

Comparing it with Galil Ace ?

2. Galil Ace is better than an AK as it is not just reliable but more accurate which is an established fact.

That would be same with OFB Ghatak vs Galil Ace where ACE will shine.

3. PLR is making almost 60% of Galil components in house as per their statement and that's when they aren't even procured in mass by India. Once a bulk order comes they can fully indigenise the process same would have happed to AK 203 . It's not rocket science that they will do just screwdriver giri that's the most ridiculous statement.

The claim by OFB that their gun performed better than this and that have been made all the time if it did perform good let it come from Army and not the marketing Babus of OFB.

Infact that so much reliable and better rifle wasn't considered by Army when they repeatedly ordered for Sig 716.

 

[MisraZ]

Regarding Ghatak, there is a first hand review by our forum moderator Kunal Biswas, who confirmed that it is a 1B1 in a AK skin.

Ghatak Assault Rifle in Person ( Review )

Unexpected at best, Again... :) Was preparing to visit my friends at Delhi, When one of ours Senior member From DFI informed about a defense exhibition was going on at Delhi :cool3:, Though it was not a priority but I visited the exhibition, Where I spotted OFB stall and a black rifle, It has a...

defenceforumindia.com

There isn't any negative reviews about it from the state forces, though it can be said that TAR has better finish and a more compact design, but reduced range (300 vs 400 m) compared to Ghatak. Ghatak is more similar to an AKM with stamped receiver, while TAR is more close to Bulgarian AR-M5.

If you have any source claiming negative operational experience with Ghatak please do share here.

Also, AK 203 if produced in bulk, the price won't come down, because for each rifle the russians are demanding 200$ royalty. They won't allow OFB to sell it at a price, which is lesser than their own selling price.

Regarding Galil ACE, it is a pimped up version of the old Galil which was based on AK platform. The Israelis themselves have rejected Galil a long time back. Rather, than wasting money on this, any pimped up INSAS MK1C variant (in 7.62*39 mm caliber) will be much better option. Also, due to the negative import list, if the AK203 deal is formally cancelled, it will be an indigenous rifle, be it from ghatak, TAR, INSAS variant, SSS Defence etc. No other foreign rifle be imported except for may be a small number for special forces.

Random TL chit chat regarding cons of Ghatak, I won't vouch for authenticity though. Maybe @Unknowncommando 2 can:

 

[shuvo@y2k10]

Why wasn't INSAS as reliable as an AK then ? Kuch bhi ??

Because of the quality control issues with OFB. INSAS was a highly accurate and reliable design in the early 90s, and passed the army GSQR will flying colors and hence it was decided to induct. If it was not reliable, army would not have passed it. Also, Army prefeered AKs due to the lethality of the 7.62*39 mm round in Counter-insurgancy over the 5.56*45 mm round

Whereas, the Galil was on the frontline service of Israeli army only for a short duration in the early 70s, and was subsequently replaced by M16 from USA. The present Ace versions are just modernized version of that.

That would be same with OFB Ghatak vs Galil Ace where ACE will shine.

Might be true. But will the they supply that at Rs. 30000 per rifle (around $ 408), which was the price for recent TAR purchase of CRPF. For 7.62*51 mm Galil Ace they quoted $ 1600 for FTP. For scew driver assembly with PLR, the price will go up.
Also, I see no benefit in importing a AK based design when we have so many in house. The AK203 was a political decision, and the future of the deal looks bleak.

The claim by OFB that their gun performed better than this and that have been made all the time if it did perform good let it come from Army and not the marketing Babus of OFB.

This is coming from a reputed journalist Saurav Jha. Not some random internet guy. His news reports have been authentic.

Infact that so much reliable and better rifle wasn't considered by Army when they repeatedly ordered for Sig 716.

Sig was always meant to be purchased under FTP due to emergency requirement. That is why army issued separate RFIs for FTP and separate for 5.5 lac 7.62*51 mm rifle. The order was repeated due to on-going Ladakh crisis. Also, why didn't Ace was selected?

Army gave time to OFB, for the R2 rifle to mature. This is confirmed from Army chief Bipin Rawat's statement. If army was not interested in that project, they would not send a project management team to work with OFB on the R2 rifle.

 

[Vishalreddy3]

 

[Flying Dagger]

Because of the quality control issues with OFB. INSAS was a highly accurate and reliable design in the early 90s, and passed the army GSQR will flying colors and hence it was decided to induct. If it was not reliable, army would not have passed it. Also, Army prefeered AKs due to the lethality of the 7.62*39 mm round in Counter-insurgancy over the 5.56*45 mm round

Whereas, the Galil was on the frontline service of Israeli army only for a short duration in the early 70s, and was subsequently replaced by M16 from USA. The present Ace versions are just modernized version of that.



Might be true. But will the they supply that at Rs. 30000 per rifle (around $ 408), which was the price for recent TAR purchase of CRPF. For 7.62*51 mm Galil Ace they quoted $ 1600 for FTP. For scew driver assembly with PLR, the price will go up.
Also, I see no benefit in importing a AK based design when we have so many in house. The AK203 was a political decision, and the future of the deal looks bleak.



This is coming from a reputed journalist Saurav Jha. Not some random internet guy. His news reports have been authentic.


Sig was always meant to be purchased under FTP due to emergency requirement. That is why army issued separate RFIs for FTP and separate for 5.5 lac 7.62*51 mm rifle. The order was repeated due to on-going Ladakh crisis. Also, why didn't Ace was selected?

Army gave time to OFB, for the R2 rifle to mature. This is confirmed from Army chief Bipin Rawat's statement. If army was not interested in that project, they would not send a project management team to work with OFB on the R2 rifle.

INSAS accuracy had more to do with 5.56 round in comparison to Ak round... And with long barrel taken from SLR it had good range. But they messed it up... And you were comparing it with Galil Ace ? Seriously


Army asked for its replacement long back it never materialized is a different story.

Soldiers started picking Aks not just because if AK round but its reliability too in comparison to INSAS. Else in Naxal areas INSAS should have worked but even there Aks were procured to replace them.

Galil Ace matured over time... From an AK to combo of AK and AR providing best of both world.

The cost can be easily brought down under 1000 dollar just like Viets managed to do.

And do provide the 30000 rs TAR link even INSAS cost more than that.

And What do you mean screwdriver giri ?

What you want them to ? Make rocks songs abt it ??

They are making the rifle parts here.. that's what they are supposed to do.

Lol S Jha why they didn't inducted it if it outperformed Galil and all international rifles then

Why did they even asked for Carbines and Aks if R2 is the replacement.

Why didn't they inducted carbine version of Excalibur /INSAS for 5.56 NATO round ??

Go ask your reputed journo abt that.

 

[Trololo]

While we keep debating over here the DRDO MCIWS could have been made production ready and design handed off to a pvt company to start manufacturing. Would have turned into our bread and butter rifle with world class capabilities.

 

[Narendra s rawat]

INSAS accuracy had more to do with 5.56 round in comparison to Ak round... And with long barrel taken from SLR it had good range. But they messed it up... And you were comparing it with Galil Ace ? Seriously


Army asked for its replacement long back it never materialized is a different story.

Soldiers started picking Aks not just because if AK round but its reliability too in comparison to INSAS. Else in Naxal areas INSAS should have worked but even there Aks were procured to replace them.

Galil Ace matured over time... From an AK to combo of AK and AR providing best of both world.

The cost can be easily brought down under 1000 dollar just like Viets managed to do.

And do provide the 30000 rs TAR link even INSAS cost more than that.

And What do you mean screwdriver giri ?

What you want them to ? Make rocks songs abt it ??

They are making the rifle parts here.. that's what they are supposed to do.

Lol S Jha why they didn't inducted it if it outperformed Galil and all international rifles then

Why did they even asked for Carbines and Aks if R2 is the replacement.

Why didn't they inducted carbine version of Excalibur /INSAS for 5.56 NATO round ??

Go ask your reputed journo abt that.

The Vietnam Galil ace are even lesser than $1000 but they have downgrade the Galil.

STV 380(vietnami Galil)

It is a mixture of older Galil and newer Galil ace varient.
$1600 is quoted for Galil ace in rifle tenture even
with joint venture with plr system.

₹35000 is the cost of Bulgarian AK such as
AR m1, AR m5 in service with Crpf.
TAR is basically copy of AR m1 it price is ₹70000 to ₹80000 quoted by ofb.

 

[shuvo@y2k10]

And What do you mean screwdriver giri ?

What you want them to ? Make rocks songs abt it ??

PLR plans to do license assembly of Israeli weapons in its newly established factory, from knocked down kits. They don't own any IPR. Nor are they allowed to modify the weapons and sell it to any other customer. And for each rifle assembled at their plant, they will have to pay a license fee. Not much difference with OFB/HAL who are doing this for years for different Russian systems. This is the definition of screw driver giri.
What PLR could have done is to hire some foreign small arms expert from USA/Europe or even Israel and assembled a design team and designed their own gun, based on any of any successful designs like AR-15, FN-FAL or even AK-47, whose licences have expired a long time ago. This would have been a better option than first building a factory, and then hoping to be a local partner for a foreign company for a order form MOD that may or may not come.

ol S Jha why they didn't inducted it if it outperformed Galil and all international rifles then

I have already answered this question previously. Ii will repost it here:

Sig was always meant to be purchased under FTP of 72.4K rifles due to emergency requirement. That is why army issued separate RFIs for FTP and separate for 5.5 lac 7.62*51 mm rifle. The order was repeated due to on-going Ladakh crisis. Also, why didn't Ace was selected?

Army gave time to OFB, for the R2 rifle to mature. This is confirmed from Army chief Bipin Rawat's statement. If army was not interested in that project, they would not send a project management team headed by DG, Infantry to work with OFB on the R2 rifle.

Why did they even asked for Carbines and Aks if R2 is the replacement.

The carbines are for replacement of 9 mm Sten LMG. It has a completely different role than primary infantry rifle. Both are not mutually exclusive. Here also there are two separate tenders one is for FTP of 93k and second is for domestic manufacture of 360K.

Why didn't they inducted carbine version of Excalibur /INSAS for 5.56 NATO round

Who told you that new OFB 5.56 CQB carbine and JVPC will not compete for the 360K carbine tender? Now that caracal deal is formally cancelled, these carbines can even compete under FTP tender.

The excalibur MK1C was designed as Insas replacement, not a short range carbine. It passed the army trials in 2015. However, with army changed the caliber requirement and hence it was overlooked. If the army relaxes the weight and length requirement of carbine deals, it can still compete in that. Even 5.56*45 mm caliber version of MCIWS can compete in such a scenario.

Go ask your reputed journo abt that.

You also go and ask the your Israeli friends on why they ditched the galil for M16 in the 70s. And quoting an astronomical price of $ 1600 for a rifle for export, which is rejected by its home country decades ago.

 

[Johny_Baba]

Chill guys, IDF not adopting Galil in good numbers was classic case of "Never forget that your weapon is made by the lowest bidder".

What essentially happened was then IMI offered Galil in 3 variants to the IDF,
ARM (with ~21 inch barrel and integral bipod and weighted some 4.3 Kg), AR (with ~18 inch barrel,no bipod and weighted some 3.8 Kg) and SAR (with ~13 inch barrel and weighted ~3.7 Kg)
Trials were conducted and results were also satisfactory,
THEN came Unkil Sam flying on bald eagle and offered those long nosed people M16 and CAR-15 for very low shekals than what was quoted by then IMI to the IDF, and if you would compare both of them in terms of basic statistics like weight, features and so,M16 did score well in that regard as well (except perhaps reliability part but overall yeah)...

This resulted in weight debate as naturally a milled receiver AK pattern rifle like Galil was heavy compared to an AR in perhaps all barrel configurations and due to that IMI also tried to make it shed some weight by taking off materials off its receiver wherever they coud i.e. doing 'Lightning Cuts', mainly around the areas of magazine well
Even with all that it remained heavier than standard AR offered by Unkil Sam and as i said before lowest bidder won the major contracts while some units (mainly mechanised units who could use some folding buttstock), certain SF units and others like that purchased Galils for them.

THIS IS WHY IDF DID NOT USE MUCH GALIL IN THEIR SERVICE AS THEY WERE ALREADY OVERWHELMED BY YUUGE DISCUNTS OFFERED ON AMREEKI RIPHULS, AND GOT THEIR REQUIREMENTS SATISFIED WITH THAT...NOT BECAUSE GALIL WAS A BAD RIFLE.

besides, a shekal saved is a shekal earned,no ?

 

[Maharaj samudragupt]

I only hope that ghost of galil possesses the heads of dac and mod guys .
So army will get lots of galils.
I think , the fauj will buy SIG's to euip everyone , literally everyone .

 

[Flying Dagger]

The Vietnam Galil ace are even lesser than $1000 but they have downgrade the Galil.

STV 380(vietnami Galil)
View attachment 72128

It is a mixture of older Galil and newer Galil ace varient.
$1600 is quoted for Galil ace in rifle tenture even
with joint venture with plr system.

₹35000 is the cost of Bulgarian AK such as
AR m1, AR m5 in service with Crpf.
TAR is basically copy of AR m1 it price is ₹70000 to ₹80000 quoted by ofb.

They haven't downgraded anything.. but have used older Aks component like magazines etc to save on cost... The new one is around 1000 dollar but they shaved cost further by utilising old Aks .
1600 dollar was quoted as per some reports for tender of 72000 rifles.. to be built with PLR.

If Sig would have manufactured their rifle here the cost would have been high too. But a lot of investment has been already done by the company and the cost can be brought down in a bulk order.

Not that it's the only choice but definitely if we want an AK like reliability then Galil and Carmel are an option.


And thanks for confirming romanian Aks costed us 25-30k while Arsenal version , Bulgarian 30-35 k around . That is definitely a better deal than Ak 203 anyday.

While OFB offered Arsenal's copy TAR for 80 k .

I am not aware of the 30 k price of TAR and Ghatak as quoted by @shuvo@y2k10 hopefully he will provide the link .

 

[Flying Dagger]

PLR plans to do license assembly of Israeli weapons in its newly established factory, from knocked down kits. They don't own any IPR. Nor are they allowed to modify the weapons and sell it to any other customer. And for each rifle assembled at their plant, they will have to pay a license fee. Not much difference with OFB/HAL who are doing this for years for different Russian systems. This is the definition of screw driver giri.
What PLR could have done is to hire some foreign small arms expert from USA/Europe or even Israel and assembled a design team and designed their own gun, based on any of any successful designs like AR-15, FN-FAL or even AK-47, whose licences have expired a long time ago. This would have been a better option than first building a factory, and then hoping to be a local partner for a foreign company for a order form MOD that may or may not come.



I have already answered this question previously. Ii will repost it here:

Sig was always meant to be purchased under FTP of 72.4K rifles due to emergency requirement. That is why army issued separate RFIs for FTP and separate for 5.5 lac 7.62*51 mm rifle. The order was repeated due to on-going Ladakh crisis. Also, why didn't Ace was selected?

Army gave time to OFB, for the R2 rifle to mature. This is confirmed from Army chief Bipin Rawat's statement. If army was not interested in that project, they would not send a project management team headed by DG, Infantry to work with OFB on the R2 rifle.



The carbines are for replacement of 9 mm Sten LMG. It has a completely different role than primary infantry rifle. Both are not mutually exclusive. Here also there are two separate tenders one is for FTP of 93k and second is for domestic manufacture of 360K.



Who told you that new OFB 5.56 CQB carbine and JVPC will not compete for the 360K carbine tender? Now that caracal deal is formally cancelled, these carbines can even compete under FTP tender.

The excalibur MK1C was designed as Insas replacement, not a short range carbine. It passed the army trials in 2015. However, with army changed the caliber requirement and hence it was overlooked. If the army relaxes the weight and length requirement of carbine deals, it can still compete in that. Even 5.56*45 mm caliber version of MCIWS can compete in such a scenario.


You also go and ask the your Israeli friends on why they ditched the galil for M16 in the 70s. And quoting an astronomical price of $ 1600 for a rifle for export, which is rejected by its home country decades ago.

Definition of screwdriver giri is literally stupid... When the discussion is abt Galil Ace vs Russian AK.

You shouldn't have brought the Russian AEK 971 in discussion as we don't own it's IPR either.

Army ordered Sig twice.. and have plan for Ak. R2 is already out .


Carbine is basically a rifle with shorter barrel for convenience to carry . And we do have carbine version of Excalibur or INSAS 1C which were offered .

Instead of singing same ridiculous song why Galil wasn't adopted... By Israel army in bulk you should see why it's being adopted by Viets to India .

Israel got American rifles for free as aid they even cancelled their homegrown aircraft project and sold it to Chinese.. (J-10) . It was all about Cost.

Then they moved on to TAVOR bullpup rifle. But Galil Ace kept evolving and they did used it in limited numbers while it is exported allover the world successfully.