Aryan Invasion Hypothesis

[Galaxy 7]

I can post pictures of brahmin that look like Africans and some dalits that look like Iranians what's you're point here?

There r were lot of intermingling in thousands of years. So it is pointless to discuss. But history cant be changed

 

[mayfair]

Truth is bitter.

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Indeed it is. Glad you acknowledge..

It is said to be the first step to redemption...

 

[Indx TechStyle]

As the old thread had been locked.
Aryan Invasion Theory - Indian Defence Analysis

 

[Indx TechStyle]

2500 BC Rakhigarhi skeletons have no traces of ‘Aryan gene’, finds DNA study
Study examined DNA of skeletons found in Rakhigarhi, an Indus Valley Civilisation site in Haryana, and found no traces of R1a1, or Central Asian ‘steppe’, gene.

Skeletons found at Rakhigarhi date back to around 2500 BC | YouTube

New Delhi: The study of DNA samples of the skeletons found in Rakhigarhi, an Indus Valley Civilisation site in Haryana, has found no traces of the R1a1 gene or Central Asian ‘steppe’ genes, loosely termed as the ‘Aryan gene’.

The study — titled ‘An ancient Harappan genome lacks ancestry from Steppe pastoralists or Iranian farmers’ — examined the DNA of the skeletal remains of an individual in Rakhigarhi dating back to around 2500 BC, which was part of the ‘mature Harappan civilisation’ or the Indus Valley Civilisation (IVC).

“The population has no detectable ancestry from Steppe pastoralists or from Anatolian and Iranian farmers, suggesting farming in South Asia arose from local foragers rather than from large-scale migration from the West,” said the study published Friday.

The Central Asian ‘steppe’ gene is found in much of the Indian population today.

“These individuals (in Rakhigarhi) had little of any Steppe pastoralist-derived ancestry, showing that it was not ubiquitous in north-west South Asia during the IVC as it is today,” according to the study.

It added, “While there is a small proportion of Anatolian farmer-related ancestry in South Asians today, it is consistent with being entirely derived from Steppe pastoralists who carried it in mixed form and who spread into South Asia from 2000–1500 BCE.”

The study, led by archaeologist Vasant Shinde, concluded: “Our analysis of data from one individual from the IVC…demonstrates the existence of an ancestry gradient that was widespread in farmers to the northwest of peninsular India at the height of the IVC, that had little if any genetic contribution from Steppe pastoralists or western Iranian farmers or herders, and that had a primary impact on the ancestry of later South Asians.”

A disclaimer

However, towards the end of the study, there is a disclaimer, stating, “While our study is sufficient to demonstrate that this ancestry profile was a common feature of the IVC, a single sample — or even the gradient of 12 likely IVC samples we have identified — cannot fully characterise a cosmo-politan ancient civilisation.”

The Aryan invasion theory is said to be the brainchild of India’s former colonial rulers, who peddled the idea that members of the country’s high castes were descendants of Aryan invaders from Central Asia who are also the forebears of the Europeans.

Some Hindu groups subsequently argued that Aryans were not invaders at all, but native to the land, and that these indigenous people developed Vedic Hinduism. The invasion theory suggests that Vedic Hinduism was developed by European migrants, and came after the Indus Valley civilisation.

‘Movement of Central Asians towards Indus Valley not invasion’

Addressing a press conference discussing the findings of the study, Vasant Shinde said much of the development associated with the “foreigners” was brought about by the Indus Valley Civilisation.

“Earlier, it was thought that development only started with the movement of those from Central Asia and West Asia towards the Indus Valley Civilisation. But that is incorrect. All the development was done by indigenous people,” Shinde said.

However, the authors of the study were wary of calling the movement of Central Asians an “invasion”.

Dr Niraj Rai, genetic researcher headed the study with Shinde, said there still isn’t enough evidence to call the movement an “invasion”.

Explaining how contemporary South Asians could have steppe genes, when it wasn’t found in the Rakhigarhi DNA samples, Rai said, “There is a difference between migration and movement. There was certainly some mixing and assimilation, but we can’t call that an invasion,” said Rai.

Draft of the study had created furore

A draft of the Rakhigarhi study published last year had created a wave of discussion when it was reported that the skeletons lacked the R1a1 gene.

A report suggested that the findings of the study reinforced the Aryan invasion theory, because no Central Asian ancestry could be found in the DNA sample excavated.

“We did not find any Central Asian ancestry in the DNA sample. This suggests that the Rakhigarhi residents hadn’t mixed with the Central Asians till then,” Niraj Rai had told ThePrint.

However, Shinde, who led the 2015 excavation in Rakhigarhi, had debunked reports that said the study confirmed the Aryan invasion.

“Plenty of people believe the Aryans came from Central Asia. But we have no evidence of that,” Shinde had said.

 

[A chauhan]

I was going to post it yesterday... But @Indx TechStyle beaten me.

 

[Haldiram]

View attachment 38306
I was going to post it yesterday... But @Indx TechStyle beaten me.

The whole idea of "insiders and outsiders" in an era where political nation states with borders didn't even exist is funny. Outsider from which line onwards? Everyone was nomadic and people intermingled. Every violent invasion which happened as a result of a war has been documented. The people from the Persian plane migrating on the Indian plane was a nomadic migration, not an invasion. The Tamil script was found in Baluchistan so it's possible that when the nomads from the Persian planes migrated eastward, the people on that river basin shifted southward. These nomadic migration events from thousands of years ago is not comparable to the recent invasions of Ghaznavi and the likes.

As far as Hinduism goes, the real geographical frontiers of India go until those territories where the local rivers, mountains and kul-devtas of that settlement find a mention and reflection in our epics. The kingdom of Gandhar has a mention as a western frontier. So that's one data point. Brahmadesh (Myanmar) also has a mention, so does Cambodia. Chanakya's Takshasheela is in present day Pakistan. Indus river is in Pakistan. All of these are de facto 'India', even if the present political borders do not reflect it (yet). These will eventually be changed to reflect reality. They don't have to be annexed into India. They can be independent principalities with trade ties with the mothership called India. The people will invariably be Hinduized in 50-100 years anyway.

A Hindu citizen of Gandhar who moved from (present day Afghan land) into Indian mainland is not an invader. The Islamic invasion of Gandhar from central Asian tribes is an invasion.

When you have such a vast area, one stretching towards the equator and one stretching up to freezing Himalayas, it's natural to have difference in skin colors and other biological evolution. It's not necessary for everyone in a civilizational nation state to be ethnically homogeneous. Our nation is not based on ethnicity or language, but on Hindu value system. The insistence on ethnic and linguistic differences is church propaganda to divide people into 'victim groups' to cultivate them into an insurgency later.

 

[Tanmay]

2500 BC Rakhigarhi skeletons have no traces of ‘Aryan gene’, finds DNA study
Study examined DNA of skeletons found in Rakhigarhi, an Indus Valley Civilisation site in Haryana, and found no traces of R1a1, or Central Asian ‘steppe’, gene.

Skeletons found at Rakhigarhi date back to around 2500 BC | YouTube

A disclaimer

‘Movement of Central Asians towards Indus Valley not invasion’

Draft of the study had created furore

I read the paper.

However the headline is misleading I think.

Rakhigarhi, Haryana is a Harappan site. The said skeleton belongs to Harappan civilisation(5000BC to 1500BC).

The paper merely says that this one skeleton has DNA from only South Asians. So Harappan civilization was made up of totally Indian genes. No steppe/central asian/iranian/other genes were present.

The AIT/AMT theory says that Vedic Aryans had Steppe/Central Asian/Iranian people who appeared around 1500BC.

So how will Harappan skeleton not having Steppe/Iranian genes prove that Aryans didn't mix later on!

The paper at max proves that Harappans are totally indigenous Indian people.

How does anyone draw conclusion that a Harappan era skeleton not having steppe genes disproves any theory?

 

[Indx TechStyle]

I read the paper.

However the headline is misleading I think.

Rakhigarhi, Haryana is a Harappan site. The said skeleton belongs to Harappan civilisation(5000BC to 1500BC).

The paper merely says that this one skeleton has DNA from only South Asians. So Harappan civilization was made up of totally Indian genes. No steppe/central asian/iranian/other genes were present.

The AIT/AMT theory says that Vedic Aryans had Steppe/Central Asian/Iranian people who appeared around 1500BC.

So how will Harappan skeleton not having Steppe/Iranian genes prove that Aryans didn't mix later on!

The paper at max proves that Harappans are totally indigenous Indian people.

How does anyone draw conclusion that a Harappan era skeleton not having steppe genes disproves any theory?

As per AIT, Hinduism was imposed on Indian on subcontinent which is much older than 1500 BC.

 

[Haldilal]

Even A team of the Archaeological Survey of India led by B.R. Mani and Vinay Kumar Gupta collected charcoal samples from Gosna, a site 6 km east of Mathura across the Yamuna river, where two of the radiocarbon dates from the Pottery Grey Ware deposit came out to be 2160 BCE and 2170 BCE . The Pottery Grey Ware culture is generally associated with the Aryans , then the recent findings shows it could be even older than 2,500 bc if this is clear proof then the Aryans habitated the regions far older than the previous findings . Let's create a separate thread for the OIT .

 

[Haldilal]

The aryan Invansion is just a hog wash by the Goreas . We are still looking the ancient civilization by the modern perspective. Aryans are now knewn to inhabited are large areas of the sub continent as far as 2,500 bc .

The Puranas, envisions a much older chronology for the Vedic culture. In this view, the Vedas were received thousands of years ago, and the start of the reign of Manu Vaivasvate, the Manu of the current Kalpa and the progenitor of humanity, may be dated as far back 7550 BCE. The Kurukshetra War, the background-scene of the Baghavad Gita, which may relate historical events taking place at the heartland of Aryavatra, is dated in this chronology at ca. 3100 BCE.

 

[cereal killer]

I thinks Aryans may have migrated to India much more earlier than predicted. Indus valley may totally be dominated of Aryans since the beginning. Dravidians lived in Southern portion. As their DNA is some sort of different. Current generation tests showed that difference is not much but maybe it could've been big in early stages. Invasion is not the right word here.
Early Iranians share connection with Vedas & were probably western branch that settled.
The DNA thing is key. If we somehow get to Tribal Andamanese people samples, we may find what might be the actual difference.

 

[Haldilal]

I thinks Aryans may have migrated to India much more earlier than predicted. Indus valley may totally be dominated of Aryans since the beginning. Dravidians lived in Southern portion. As their DNA is some sort of different. Current generation tests showed that difference is not much but maybe it could've been big in early stages. Invasion is not the right word here.
Early Iranians share connection with Vedas & were probably western branch that settled.
The DNA thing is key. If we somehow get to Tribal Andamanese people samples, we may find what might be the actual difference.

There is another theory Indeginious Aryans also known as Out of India Theory where Aryans originated in India and moved on to the central steppes around 5500 bc . The limit of the current india is not plausible to the ancient times . There was no boundary and lines existed that existe now . Aryans could have roam the far streches of the indian sub continents, iran, central Asia.

 

[cereal killer]

There is another theory Indeginious Aryans also known as Out of India Theory where Aryans originated in India and moved on to the central steppes around 5500 bc . The limit of the current india is not plausible to the ancient times . There was no boundary and lines existed that existe now . Aryans could have roam the far streches of the indian sub continents, iran, central Asia.

Lol who came up with this. Men originated from Africa first then they marched in several directions. Aryans may have arrived from different routes. Either khyber or Khunjeryab.
Dravidians possibly from Makran desert.
So called Steppes batch might have never made it to India at most Iran in east & europe in the west. It is complex but there is nothing concrete to support Aryans originated in India. A country which has too many natural barriers.

 

[Haldilal]

Lol who came up with this. Men originated from Africa first then they marched in several directions. Aryans may have arrived from different routes. Either khyber or Khunjeryab.
Dravidians possibly from Makran desert.
So called Steppes batch might have never made it to India at most Iran in east & europe in the west. It is complex but there is nothing concrete to support Aryans originated in India. A country which has too many natural barriers.

Koenraad Elst Wrote an Magnum opus book on it Update on the Aryan Invasion Debate (1999) and Asterisk in Bhāropīyasthān (2007), read it might brain wash you.

 

[cereal killer]

Koenraad Elst Wrote an Magnum opus book on it Update on the Aryan Invasion Debate (1999) and Asterisk in Bhāropīyasthān (2007), read it might brain wash you.

Well if Aryans originated in India then why would they only go westwards? Why not east? You see they certainly came from western direction & never made it past hostile Native tribes who were Mongoloid like North East. Otherwise Chinese may also look also like similar to us. Heck even South east Asia.

 

[Haldilal]

Well if Aryans originated in India then why would they only go westwards? Why not east? You see they certainly came from western direction & never made it past hostile Native tribes who were Mongoloid like North East. Otherwise Chinese may also look also like similar to us. Heck even South east Asia.

I never said Aryans originated in india the meaning behind that was we lived in india for more than 10,000 years and some lelf for iran some in central Asia and some towards the SEA and EA.

 

[Shaitan]

If you want to know where the mainstream is at here is the simple overview.

 

[fyodor]

The aryan Invansion is just a hog wash by the Goreas . We are still looking the ancient civilization by the modern perspective. Aryans are now knewn to inhabited are large areas of the sub continent as far as 2,500 bc .

The Puranas, envisions a much older chronology for the Vedic culture. In this view, the Vedas were received thousands of years ago, and the start of the reign of Manu Vaivasvate, the Manu of the current Kalpa and the progenitor of humanity, may be dated as far back 7550 BCE. The Kurukshetra War, the background-scene of the Baghavad Gita, which may relate historical events taking place at the heartland of Aryavatra, is dated in this chronology at ca. 3100 BCE.

Haldi seth, these marxists don't deny the date of earlier origins, they twist it around that since there have been so many intermixing withing people that we should as a consequence let go of the idea of cultural nationalism and welcome the influence of outsider forces like Islam, Christianity etc more deeper in our system.

 

[cereal killer]

I never said Aryans originated in india the meaning behind that was we lived in india for more than 10,000 years and some lelf for iran some in central Asia and some towards the SEA and EA.

Yep I was also saying just that. Aryans arrived here way earlier than these claims are now being fed that they destroyed Indus Valley it is bullsh**.

 

[Assassin 2.0]

Indus valley civilization

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