Aryan Invasion Theory

Haman10

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I tried hard to keep out of this thread , but for the sake of conversations , these are my views :

1- Talking about race in 2014 is super retard IMHO , why should i think i'm superior to this girl because of my skin color ?



the value of human beings are determined by the amount of phosphorous they use and burn each day , not their skin color or race .

so peace .

2- i'm aryan , most of indians are , and we are proud of it ! for a single simple reason : we never massacred anyone throughout the history ......

thats the only reason . nothing else .

correct me if i'm wrong .....
 

Pratap

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I tried hard to keep out of this thread , but for the sake of conversations , these are my views :

1- Talking about race in 2014 is super retard IMHO , why should i think i'm superior to this girl because of my skin color ?



the value of human beings are determined by the amount of phosphorous they use and burn each day , not their skin color or race .

so peace .

2- i'm aryan , most of indians are , and we are proud of it ! for a single simple reason : we never massacred anyone throughout the history ......

thats the only reason . nothing else .

correct me if i'm wrong .....
Dost, it is not about racial superiority. The Indians in this thread are engaging in revisionism by saying that speakers of Indo European Languages moved out of India to enire world. What they are saying is that ancestors of Persians and Medes were Indians who were defeated and expelled from here. This is revisionism emanating from nationalism and I hope Iranians like you would laugh that Cyrus was an Indian origin.

I agree that in pre christian times, Indian Ashoka and Persian Cyrus are greatest rulers of their time much better than that macedonian butcher Alexander.
 

shinoj

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Dost, it is not about racial superiority. The Indians in this thread are engaging in revisionism by saying that speakers of Indo European Languages moved out of India to enire world. What they are saying is that ancestors of Persians and Medes were Indians who were defeated and expelled from here. This is revisionism emanating from nationalism and I hope Iranians like you would laugh that Cyrus was an Indian origin.

I agree that in pre christian times, Indian Ashoka and Persian Cyrus are greatest rulers of their time much better than that macedonian butcher Alexander.
You are too much brainwashed by Western Propoganda. But its not your fault.
 

Pratap

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You are too much brainwashed by Western Propoganda. But its not your fault.
Thanks for this. It is certainly not my fault that I have been brainwashed as one forms one's thoughts on basis of books one reads and since West is so dominating, one would mainly read western books. However, AIT is supported by even non communist and pro Hindu Indian historians. Have they been also brainwashed?
 

bennedose

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The Indian genetic picture consists of a mixture of two sets of genes nominally termed ASI (Ancestral South Indian) and ANI (Ancestral North Indian).

North Indians have a mix of approximately 60% ANI + 40% ASI genes. South Indians tend to show 60% ASI + 40% ANI. Only Kashmiri Pandits and Patshuns show 70% ANI + 30 % ASI. But even they have so called "Ancestral South Indian" genes - so there has been a thorough mixing of genes in India. People outside of the India, Pakistan, Afghanistan area do not show this characteristic ASI/ANI signature.

The mixing of genes most probably started occurring about 11,000 years ago at the end of the last ice age.

There are no Aryan genes. There is no evidence of major admixture of genes coinciding with the dates of the so called Aryan invasion theory.

Just because there was no evidence of spread of language out of India does not mean that there was an Aryan invasion. The only real invasion into mainland India from the west were Islamic invasions - and yes Pakis think they have Aryan genes and many Indians have probably inherited those genes as well. If Pakis are Aryans, yes there was an Aryan invasion. Otherwise the story of Aryan invasion is pure bullshit.

In fact It is much more likely that Zoroastrianism and the Atharva veda have a common root - both having coexisted/originated in Northwest India. Zoroastrianism spread all over Iran from that area and eventually came into conflict with Greeks many centuries later.

The link below is to a table created by me taking data from the Reich genetics paper. It shows that Upper caste North Indian Indo Aryan speakers tend to have more ANI genes. But Upper caste Dravidian speaking south Indians have more Ancestral North Indian (ANI) genes than lower caste and tribal north Indian Indo European speakers. The genetic mixture in India is more complex than some people seem to want to admit - or maybe they simply don't understand.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B3JNY4IY8u2bZjNvWDNCcERVRWs/edit?usp=sharing


Finally, take a look at this paper. People who like reading genetics papers may do so at the link below. It is about the genetics of Afghans.


Afghanistan's Ethnic Groups Share a Y-Chromosomal Heritage Structured by Historical Events - Marc Haber et al

No statement about the genetics of language spread can be more clear than the one from this paper. That is as big a kick up the backsides of the supporters of the Aryan Invasion theory as you can get
The prevailing Y-chromosome lineage in Pashtun and Tajik (R1a1a-M17), has the highest observed diversity among populations of the Indus Valley [46]. R1a1a-M17 diversity declines toward the Pontic-Caspian steppe where the mid-Holocene R1a1a7-M458 sublineage is dominant [46]. R1a1a7-M458 was absent in Afghanistan, suggesting that R1a1a-M17 does not support, as previously thought [47], expansions from the Pontic Steppe [3], bringing the Indo-European languages to Central Asia and India.
 
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bennedose

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However, AIT is supported by even non communist and pro Hindu Indian historians. Have they been also brainwashed?
Whether they are brainwashed or not is not evidence that they are right. Their education and reading is the same as yours hence they have the same beliefs as you do. You admit to being brainwashed. We cannot know whether they are brainwashed or not - which is irrelevant here. They are wrong. That is all.
 

PredictablyMalicious

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Dost, it is not about racial superiority. The Indians in this thread are engaging in revisionism by saying that speakers of Indo European Languages moved out of India to enire world. What they are saying is that ancestors of Persians and Medes were Indians who were defeated and expelled from here. This is revisionism emanating from nationalism and I hope Iranians like you would laugh that Cyrus was an Indian origin.

I agree that in pre christian times, Indian Ashoka and Persian Cyrus are greatest rulers of their time much better than that macedonian butcher Alexander.
What are you talking about? Most of us don't support the Out of India hypothesis. Just because AIT is horseshit does not mean Out of India has to be true.
@Haman10 : South Asians are obsessed with skin colour because we have too much diversity. Regions where phenotypes are more homogenized (such as Iran) tend to be less preoccupied with phenotypic differences. There is too much ethnic, caste, tribal, racial, linguistic diversity in India for our own good. Inter racial, inter caste, inter ethnic, inter tribal, inter religious, and inter linguistic marriages are needed to homogenize phenotypes and this will take care of a lot of problems. Also, dark skin is historically considered in a negative light and although the western world has shed these notions, South Asians hold on to them because of cultural backwardness and lack of enlightenment.
By our own standards, majority of Indians fall short of the ideal that is portrayed in our Bollywood movies. It's safe to say that bollywood has ruined Indians and mentally enslaved us in a way that the British could never really do. It's unfortunate.
 
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Pratap

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Whether they are brainwashed or not is not evidence that they are right. Their education and reading is the same as yours hence they have the same beliefs as you do. You admit to being brainwashed. We cannot know whether they are brainwashed or not - which is irrelevant here. They are wrong. That is all.
No one is wrong except hindu noise makers like you.Google Spencer Wells and then google your name. I will stick to genetic scientist's opinion rather than some internet trolls who at some time become genetic scientists, at others become great scholar of linguistics and so on without knowing even basics of a theory.
 

Pratap

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What are you talking about? Most of us don't support the Out of India hypothesis. Just because AIT is horseshit does not mean Out of India has to be true.
"Most of us". This is an honest statement as there are indeed people on this and other fora like @shinoj, @Virendra and @Bhadra are arguing that Out of India movement took place.AIT camp is solid and monolithic whereas your camp is" Jitne log utni baaten" case. Some deny OIT and AIT, others make OIT valid and trace this to 4-5 thousand BC, others talk in terms of tens of thousand years old.
Speak with one mind and only then expect your side to be even considered as something worth.
 
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angeldude13

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What are you talking about? Most of us don't support the Out of India hypothesis. Just because AIT is horseshit does not mean Out of India has to be true.
@Haman10 : South Asians are obsessed with skin colour because we have too much diversity. Regions where phenotypes are more homogenized (such as Iran) tend to be less preoccupied with phenotypic differences. There is too much ethnic, caste, tribal, racial, linguistic diversity in India for our own good. Inter racial, inter caste, inter ethnic, inter tribal, inter religious, and inter linguistic marriages are needed to homogenize phenotypes and this will take care of a lot of problems. Also, dark skin is historically considered in a negative light and although the western world has shed these notions, South Asians hold on to them because of cultural backwardness and lack of enlightenment.
By our own standards, majority of Indians fall short of the ideal that is portrayed in our Bollywood movies. It's safe to say that bollywood has ruined Indians and mentally enslaved us in a way that the British could never really do. It's unfortunate.
You are talking to a Iranian about skin color :lol:
Iranians are obsessed with whote skin too.
Look at there heroines. They look like some European models and majority of Iranian women don't look like those in Iranian movies.
Also women in Iran dye there here blonde to Look like western ladies.
It's nothing like I hate iranians or something but the thing is white skin comes in beauty for majority of people.
Look at the heroines in Hollywood. Sh8tty actresses like Kirsten Stewart,Gwyneth paltrow and isla fisher made it big just because there skin is extra white.
People are obsessed with white skin all over the world and not just the indians or iranians but the majority of world.
 
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Pratap

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The link below is to a table created by me taking data from the Reich genetics paper. It shows that Upper caste North Indian Indo Aryan speakers tend to have more ANI genes. But Upper caste Dravidian speaking south Indians have more Ancestral North Indian (ANI) genes than lower caste and tribal north Indian Indo European speakers. The genetic mixture in India is more complex than some people seem to want to admit - or maybe they simply don't understand.
This is nothing new given that "upper caste dravidian"( which is your term are) themselves invaders in South. When north Indian dynasties ruled South, there were lot of Kshatriya and Brahmans who moved into South and spread their culture, language and genes. Later on, they got submerged in south but retained higher position in caste ladder. Many Muslims like Owaisi are of foreign descent but speak an Indian language, similarly Rajus of Andhra who resemble Thakurs of North are descendants of Ikshavakus who moved in Andhra some 1800 years ago.
Infact, it further supports my position as there is a direct link between higher ANI and caste status which means that aryan invaders retained positions at top.
 

Pratap

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You are talking to a Iranian about skin color :lol:
Iranians are obsessed with whote skin too.
Look at there heroines. They look like some European models and majority of Iranian women don't look like those in Iranian movies.
Also women in Iran dye there here blonde to Look like western ladies.
It's nothing like I hate iranians or something but the thing is white skin comes in beauty for majority of people.
Look at the heroines in Hollywood. Sh8tty actresses like Kirsten Stewart,Gwyneth paltrow and isla fisher made it big just because there skin is extra white.
People are obsessed with white skin all over the world and not just the indians or iranians but the majority of world.
This topic is not about white skin but people are hell bent on proving that this is the case.
 

PredictablyMalicious

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You are talking to a Iranian about skin color :lol:
Iranians are obsessed with whote skin too.
Look at there heroines. They look like some European models and majority of Iranian women don't look like those in Iranian movies.
Also women in Iran dye there here blonde to Look like western ladies.
It's nothing like I hate iranians or something but the thing is white skin comes in beauty for majority of people.
Look at the heroines in Hollywood. Sh8tty actresses like Kirsten Stewart,Gwyneth paltrow and isla fisher made it big just because there skin is extra white.
People are obsessed with white skin all over the world and not just the indians or iranians but the majority of world.
You are probably right :lol: Middle eastern women are obsessed with dying their hair blonde.... The difference between ME people and Indians is that ME tend to be be more arrogant and have a lot of pride. Indians usually lack pride. Arabs are the most arrogant people you will ever meet and tend not to self-depreciate. Indians underestimate themselves and ME overestimate themselves :rofl:
 

Pratap

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This diagram is even better



R1a1 did move into Indian subcontinent some 5 thousand years ago. Now can anyone show me R1a1 moving into Europe some 7 to 5 thousand years ago?
 

Peter

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I don`t know why this thread is going on for so long. Whether there was an Aryan invasion is immaterial .How does that help the current problems we are facing.
 

Pratap

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Please look at this figure with some common sense



As anyone can see, red is almost absent from India and so red or R1b did not split in India nor it ever moved into India. Now, the fact is that from parent haplogroup R, we got two offsprings initially that is R1a and R1b and both are twin siblings which means that when R splited, it gave rise to both of these. Since R1b is not at all present in India, it means that R1b and R1a splited out of India and thIs further implies that R1a is intruder into India.
How can R1a be indigenous to India if its twin sibling R1b ( both emerged some 18,500 years ago simultaneously) is not at all present in India?

It is like saying that a mother gave birth to one twin child in India and another in England in pre modern age.
 

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