Aryan Invasion Theory

viklewapatel

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Language shift is a cultural process in which an expanding population changes their language of that of a surrounding population with only a minor contribution of that population genes. This process makes for discordance between languages and genes and that largely hampers the journey of gene with language. An important process that has shaped the present (spatial) distribution of languages in South Asia is language shift by indigenous populations. The Mushar community is one of the best examples of language shift in India. This community is dispersed mainly in Uttar Pradesh, Bihar, Jharkhand, Chhattisgarh and Madhya Pradesh and is known to have spoken the Mundari dialect of the Austro-Asiatic language family in the recent past. But now they have by and large adopted Indo-European language from the surrounding populations. (Mushar literally means mouse eaters Hindi; Mus-‘Mouse’, her-‘eater’).

 

viklewapatel

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Most Indian communities trace their origin back along the male ‘gothra’ or clan, which is often the basis of endogamous marriage networks. It is notable that the gothra system exists in caste as well as in tribal populations. The majority of Y gene pool of South Asia contains haplogroups C, H, J, R1a, R2, L, and O2a. The high STR variance and widespread nature in Indian subcontinent of haplogroups C5, F*, H, R2 and L1 has usually been considered of indicative to their indigenous origins in the subcontinent. A few studies have suggested haplogroup R1a, with its wide geographic spread including Eastern Europe and Central Asia, as a potential marker of the Indo-Aryan invasion that introduced the caste system to India, as the frequency of this haplogroup was found to be specifically higher among the caste groups. Several other papers, however, have argued against such a simple, essentially single alpha-male lineage initiated migration scenario, which receives no significant support from the maternally-inherited gene tree. The higher variance of STRs in the Indian R1a lineages as compared to those from Central Asia further weakens such a scenario, implying a strong founder effect. However, the current lack of sufficient SNP marker resolution makes it difficult to infer the geographic origin of haplogroup R1a.

http://evolutsioon.ebc.ee/MAIT/pdf/bioessays.pdf
 

viklewapatel

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I'm really feeling confused right now.

We wuz Aryanz, Ungabungas, Shudras, Scythians and shiet


View attachment 122336
WE WUZ SCYTHIANS AND SLAVS AND SHIET

Klyosov [2009c] found that “R1a1 originates from southern Siberia; mutations M17 / M198 were established there 20,000 years ago.” [cf. Klyosov, Rozanski 2009]. The culture of the Slavs was Milograd culture. On the river Vistula there was a centre of Slavic culture, as the results of recent genetic tests have proved:

”This raises the possibility of a wide and rapid spread of R1a-Z282-related lineages being associated with prevalent Copper and Early Bronze Age societies that ranged from the Rhine River in the west to the Volga River in the east including the Bronze Age Proto-Slavic culture that arose in Central Europe near the Vistula River. It may have been in this cultural context that hg R1aZ282 diversified in Central and Eastern Europe. The corresponding diversification in the Middle East and South Asia is more obscure. However, early urbanization within the Indus Valley also occurred at this time and the geographic distribution of R1a-M780 may reflect this.” [Underhill et al. 2015]

The proto-Slavic warrior in Europe: The Scythians, Sarmatians and Lekhs
http://cejsh.icm.edu.pl/cejsh/eleme...Europe_The_Scythians_Sarmatians_and_Lekhs.pdf

“IDO MOVEMENT FOR CULTURE. Journal of Martial Arts Anthropology”, Vol. 16, no. 3 (2016)
 

viklewapatel

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A research study of genes of south Indians in Tamil Nadu in the extreme south of India was done by Arun Kumar and colleagues and published in 2012. The study showed that genes shared between caste Brahmins and among tribal people dated back to a period far earlier than the time frame stated by the hypothetical migration of Brahmins carrying European genes to South India. The study concludes "The study populations from Tamil Nadu were characterized by an overwhelming proportion of Y-chromosomal lineages that likely originated within India, suggesting a low genetic influence from western Eurasian migrations in the last 10 Kya."
 

viklewapatel

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In an earlier paper in 2003, Kivisilid and others had already noted that the M17 marker was oldest in south Asia, and that it was present in high frequencies among Dravidian language speaking Indian tribal groups such as Chenchus, Valmikis from Andhra Pradesh and Kallar tribals of Tamil Nadu. Genetic studies have also discovered that genes found among Indians are are among the oldest in the world. In a study of mDNA inherited from the mother Kivisilid and colleagues note that that a component called the haplogroup M “was brought to Asia from East Africa, along the southern route, by the earliest migration wave of anatomically modern humans, 60,000 years ago”. Meanwhile the study also notes that Indians totally lack a certain gene (that serves as protection against HIV infection) that is commonly found in Europe, central and west Asia. Another finding was remarkable one of male inherited Y chromosome markers that could be linked to the patrilineal “gotra” system of India among both tribals and high caste populations, disproving the idea that gotras were created as part of the caste system by invading Aryan speakers of Indo-European languages from Europe.
 

viklewapatel

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A 2009 study by Sharma and others took the genetic studies relating to Indians to a new level. It was found that the M17 sub group of R1a most probably originated among an Brahmin (upper caste) group in India and was not brought in from outside. But even among the lower caste groups the age of the sub group R1a was much older than the age of the same sub group in central Asians and Eurasians. A research study of genes of south Indians in Tamil Nadu in the extreme south of India was done by Arun Kumar and colleagues and published in 2012. The study showed that genes shared between caste Brahmins and among tribal people dated back to a period far earlier than the time frame stated by the hypothetical migration of Brahmins carrying European genes to South India. The study concludes "The study populations from Tamil Nadu were characterized by an overwhelming proportion of Y-chromosomal lineages that likely originated within India, suggesting a low genetic influence from western Eurasian migrations in the last 10 Kya."
 

viklewapatel

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I have also heard that many Ancient Indian Sages had their ashrams in Tibet. What were they doing there? Why Tibet?
Mount Kailash is there too. I have also read in the Srimad-Bhagavatam, that the next and final Avatara will be a born brahmin from that region. I don't believe it. And I seriously think Hinduism is in need of major reform. Where's Our Martin Luther?

There's nothing to see there, folks.

But let's not forget that control of what is now Xinjiang, Western China, and neighboring provinces went back and forth between China and Tibet throughout the seventh and eighth centuries.

And China obviously thinks it's a highly strategic region.
 
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Srinivas_K

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While true in later times; during the Rig Vedic period, it was used almost solely to describe the Bharatas though a couple of times that was used in context of close allies almost conferring them that honor.
Rigveda describes 5 kingdoms or tribes(like bharatas) as Aryas.
What they meant might be civilised or noble.
 

asaffronladoftherisingsun

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Rigveda describes 5 kingdoms or tribes(like bharatas) as Aryas.
What they meant might be civilised or noble.
Arya are those who practiced Yajna used Ghrit extensively . Ghrit originated in BHARAT. This evidence alone makes RigVeda indigenous to BHARAT. The RIGVEDA RISHIS Declare Cow milk is AMRITA and protect the Cows.

DHARMAAloneTriumphs51.JPG


At the cosmic level the creation of universe itself is YAJNA very beautifully described viz the following SHLOKA of RIGVEDA

DHARMAAloneTriumphs105.JPG


O travellers on the path of divinity (DHARMA), dedicated performers of YAJNA as you go forward effacing the onset of death and living a long life of high order of happiness and virtue may you be blest with wealth and noble progeny may you be pure and sanctified at heart and in the AATMA.
 

asaffronladoftherisingsun

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It is on this basis ^^^^^ that Indra is asked to discriminate those who practiced YAJNA the Arya from those who do not practised YAJNA that is the sinners and wicked.

Fyi dont try to shove abrahamic horsesshiet of sin in RIGVEDA. Disbelief in god does not count as sin jaise allah says in quran (wa al kafiroon humu al zalimoon the kafir are oppressors always no matter what and are to be killed. Similar horseshiet is repeated in bible where jewish magickal sky daddy says how his name is dreadful among heathens).

There is another RIGVEDA Shloka that specifically explicitly mentions the doctrine of Eternal Truth which is core of all Vedic and post Vedic schools of DHARMA while those abrahamic cultists is exclusivity truth "claims". There is a huge difference.
 

Indrajit

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Rigveda describes 5 kingdoms or tribes(like bharatas) as Aryas.
What they meant might be civilised or noble.
That isn’t correct. The bulk of the Rig Veda (Mandalas 2-7) are known as family books, the family being the Bharatas. The Rig Veda is largely centred around the Bharatas, who are a subtribe of the Purus who are one of the 5 lunar tribes of the Rig Veda. In almost all occasions where “Arya” is used, it is in reference to the Bharatas . That doesn’t mean that others didn’t use that word, we know that later Persians did use that word, whether borrowed or independently, we simply will never know. It is with the Bharata expansion (including cultural expansion) that the word became more secular in nature including referring to a large part of N.India as Aryavarta eventually also giving their name to the country itself. The Mahabharata itself is about the Bharata clan and their struggles. (the Ramayana on the other hand is technically not about the Arya since the Ikshvaku being suryavanshis were not part of the Chandravanshi tribes of the Rig Veda)
 

Srinivas_K

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That isn’t correct. The bulk of the Rig Veda (Mandalas 2-7) are known as family books, the family being the Bharatas. The Rig Veda is largely centred around the Bharatas, who are a subtribe of the Purus who are one of the 5 lunar tribes of the Rig Veda. In almost all occasions where “Arya” is used, it is in reference to the Bharatas . That doesn’t mean that others didn’t use that word, we know that later Persians did use that word, whether borrowed or independently, we simply will never know. It is with the Bharata expansion (including cultural expansion) that the word became more secular in nature including referring to a large part of N.India as Aryavarta eventually also giving their name to the country itself. The Mahabharata itself is about the Bharata clan and their struggles. (the Ramayana on the other hand is technically not about the Arya since the Ikshvaku being suryavanshis were not part of the Chandravanshi tribes of the Rig Veda)
List of five tribes of Aryavartha

  • Anu (in the southwest part of early Āryāvarta)
  • Druhyu (in the north part of early Āryāvarta)
  • Puru (ancestors of the Paurava) (in the centre and east parts of early Āryāvarta, including Sarasvati river region)
  • Turvaśa (Turvasha) (in the centre and south parts of early Āryāvarta)

They all have their own sages and they all called noble/civilized (in their own assesment) as Aryas.

Rig Vedic reference

Even on RV. 1.108. 8, each of the Five Tribes named is equated in the comment to a separate type or character of human being, but not taken as the proper noun designating an ethnic group which had actually borne that name.
.

Basically the tribes broadly infers as kingdoms.

The ones who lives in Jungles are not aryas so the code of aryas is not implemented on them.
Just like today's India law which has provisions for Tribals.
 

Indrajit

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List of five tribes of Aryavartha

  • Anu (in the southwest part of early Āryāvarta)
  • Druhyu (in the north part of early Āryāvarta)
  • Puru (ancestors of the Paurava) (in the centre and east parts of early Āryāvarta, including Sarasvati river region)
  • Turvaśa (Turvasha) (in the centre and south parts of early Āryāvarta)

They all have their own sages and they all called noble/civilized (in their own assesment) as Aryas.

Rig Vedic reference

Even on RV. 1.108. 8, each of the Five Tribes named is equated in the comment to a separate type or character of human being, but not taken as the proper noun designating an ethnic group which had actually borne that name.
.

Basically the tribes broadly infers as kingdoms.

The ones who lives in Jungles are not aryas so the code of aryas is not implemented on them.
Just like today's India law which has provisions for Tribals.
I'm referring to only those references within the Rig veda itself. I have said it's very possible that the word Arya may have been used by other tribes independently but in the Rig veda ,when used in context of a specific people, its is used only to refer to the Puru/Bharatas. Probably because many of the Rishis composing the hymns were connected to the Bharatas.

The five tribes you mention are all chandravanshis, the Rig veda mentions other tribes too, most especially Ishvakus but they are not a part of the 5 chandravanshi tribes of the Rig veda.

If you need references, I'm ok to put it up though I prefer not to clutter up the thread.
 

Indrajit

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@Srinivas_K

"It is with the Bharata expansion (including cultural expansion) that the word became more secular in nature including referring to a large part of N.India as Aryavarta"
This particular point made by me is probably overstating the case and may be considered as withdrawn . It's in conflict with both your point and my own accepting that others too might have referred to themselves as Arya independently outside of the Rig veda which cannot be discounted.
 

Indo-Aryan

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One sample from Rakhigarhi destroyed so many theories/hypothesis and age old dogmas. I just wonder what would happen when we get our hands on as many samples as they have in the West.

Farming was Indeginous
Harappans were West Eurasian shifted
Civilization was Indeginous
Civilizational Cultural & Genetic continuity
 

Indo-Aryan

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Few years ago many scholars believed

Farming was brought from Fertile crescent
IVC being AHG dominant
IVC being proto-Munda

Latest research puts all this to rest.
 

Indo-Aryan

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What is the probability of Harappans who migrated into BMAC mixing with steppe pastrolists and then their descendents after the fall of BMAC returning home post 1500bce

Do we have any evidence of that?
 

Ikariyasan

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One sample from Rakhigarhi destroyed so many theories/hypothesis and age old dogmas. I just wonder what would happen when we get our hands on as many samples as they have in the West.

Farming was Indeginous
Harappans were West Eurasian shifted
Civilization was Indeginous
Civilizational Cultural & Genetic continuity
I think it was very much of what was expected.
-That's still up for debate, archeology can answer that I suppose.
- Yes, IVC was not a homogeneous populations with some having 70%+ IranN (the western Eurasian shifted type) to almost tribal like people.
-Yes it is.
-Yes, there is continuity.
 

Ikariyasan

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Few years ago many scholars believed

Farming was brought from Fertile crescent
IVC being AHG dominant
IVC being proto-Munda

Latest research puts all this to rest.
-I think they believe that because of apparent archeological continuity between SE Iranian Neolithic sites to mehrgarh and eventually IVC.
- Based on antrophometrically heterogeneous skulls, I am guessing they had always guessed it be heterogeneous.
-This was believed due to-* Earliest 'substrate' (I don't know what it means) on rigveda being different from Dravidian languages which is observed in later parts only.
* It has something to do with tonality(again I have only vague idea what it means lol) present in Punjabi, that earliest substrate and possibly munda languages.
Though someone on that forum suggested it was a sister language to proto dravidian.
 

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