Artillery Thread

Love Charger

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We have begin up-gunning these M46 to 155mm in OFB with Israeli collaboration.
Two different projects, during early 2010s
We too israeli help, few were modified army was not satisfied
Thus ofb took the recent initiative on its own
The army was satisfied this time
 

Dark Sorrow

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Rysskeis use 152 mm shells though
Sir why we don't operate anything equivalent to 203 mm guns like pakis do ?
We operated a 180mm s 23 howitzer but retired it sadly .
Looking at current war, these 207 and 203 mm guns are wrecking havoc on the enemy.
Guns firing 203 mm shells are heavy, slow (less maneuverable) and cumbersome.
Modern 155mm out-range 203 mm artillery completely (around 30 km).
With advent of better explosive 155mm artillery shell can be as deadly as 203mm.
203mm are manpower intensive.
203mm artillery are not efficient when it comes to shoot and scoop capabilities.

In modern combat 203mm artillery will easily be taken out, hence would is settling to 155 mm.
 

Blademaster

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Man the interior of the PzH2000 look so roomy. Take a look at this:

 

Angel of War

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Archer is more than capable to fight along LAC, area where K9 is going to be used.
That's not the reason to buy it. We bought K9 Vajra to integrate them into Divarty brigades of our three armoured divisions so that in offensive Operations the arty can keep pace with advancing armoured columns. The deployment in ladakh was an ad hoc measure against the chinese
 

Dark Sorrow

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That's not the reason to buy it. We bought K9 Vajra to integrate them into Divarty brigades of our three armoured divisions so that in offensive Operations the arty can keep pace with advancing armoured columns. The deployment in ladakh was an ad hoc measure against the chinese
Archer
Operational range 650 kilometres (400 mi)
Maximum speed 90 km/h (56 mph)
Weight 30 metric tons (30 Mg)
Based on Volvo A30D 6×6 articulated all-terrain hauler vehicle

K9
Operational range 360 km
Maximum speed 67 km/h
Weight 47metric tons (47 Mg)
Based on K2 Chassis


Archer is more than capable to keep pace with advancing armored columns.
 
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Angel of War

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Archer
Operational range 650 kilometres (400 mi)
Maximum speed 90 km/h (56 mph)
Weight 30 metric tons (30 Mg)
Based on Volvo A30D 6×6 articulated all-terrain hauler vehicle

K9
Operational range 360 km
Maximum speed 67 km/h
Weight 47metric tons (47 Mg)
Based on K2 Chassis


Archer is more than capable to keep pace with advancing armored columns.
No , you're missing out the terrain, archer is a wheeled platform , K9 is tracked. It can move across cross country terrain much more effectively than archer. 2 of our 3 armoured divisions are meant to operate in the deserts, pakistani Sappers have made parallel stretches of Sand dunes at many points along the IB where an indian armoured thrust is expected , wheeled and towed artillery systems cannot negotiate through sandunes of such high gradient . Moreover although the archer is also protected from fragments and small arms fire it's protection is not comparable to K9 Vajra which can effectively survive an enemy counter battery assault. Archer's overall length is also greater which makes it more difficult to conceal. K9 also has lesser gun laying time
 
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Love Charger

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No , you're missing out the terrain, archer is a wheeled platform , K9 is tracked. It can move across cross country terrain much more effectively than archer. 2 of our 3 armoured divisions are meant to operate in the deserts, pakistani Sappers have made parallel stretches of Sand dunes at many points along the IB where an indian armoured thrust is expected , wheeled and towed artillery systems cannot negotiate through sandunes of such high gradient . Moreover although the archer is also protected from fragments and small arms fire it's protection is not comparable to K9 Vajra which can effectively survive an enemy counter battery assault. Archer's overall length is also greater which makes it more difficult to conceal. K9 also has lesser gun laying time
K 9 cam be tank too,
 

Dark Sorrow

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No , you're missing out the terrain, archer is a wheeled platform , K9 is tracked. It can move across cross country terrain much more effectively than archer. 2 of our 3 armoured divisions are meant to operate in the deserts, pakistani Sappers have made parallel stretches of Sand dunes at many points along the IB where an indian armoured thrust is expected , wheeled and towed artillery systems cannot negotiate through sandunes of such high gradient . Moreover although the archer is also protected from fragments and small arms fire it's protection is not comparable to K9 Vajra which can effectively survive an enemy counter battery assault. Archer's overall length is also greater which makes it more difficult to conceal. K9 also has lesser gun laying time
Archer is based on Volvo A30D, all-terrain articulated hauler. Link
It is a proven vehicle for cross country operation and mining operation (known for their notorious temporary road). Volvo A30D can very well perform on sand dunes. It as a proven track record for the same.
All parameters of Volvo A30D are well documented and publicly available. Volvo A30D is more than capable for operation in all type of terrain even better than K9. The terrain argument is deeply flawed.

Armored thrust in Pakistan is a pipe dream. It has been a pipe dream sense Kargil. Pakistan has downgraded nuclear threshold to such a lower level that any large Indian formation in Pakistani soil will be nuked. Indian strategic planners have identified this hence cold start strategy.
Large scale tank battle like in 1965 or 1971 have become antiquated.

Any major action will take place in Punjab where both countries have huge population centers near to border. Rajasthan desert will have very less action. Pakistan tried once and badly failed. Its highly unlikely they will try again.

Thar desert offers no cover and all vehicles will be targeted by cluster munitions and MRLS.
No same commander will send large formation over Thar desert.
MRLS and cluster munitions are preferred in open spaces like Thar desert over tube artillery.
Ground.

Artillery is not expected to engage enemy infantry in direct combat but things go haywire in combat and artillery has cover of infantry. Counter battery fire is the biggest threat to any artillery. K9 can't also survive counter-battery fire.

SPA is procured to fight in Punjab, Jammu and now LAC.

If you have procured SPA to move armored divisions their is no need for concealment as such.
Archer is less bulky and voluminous than K9.

The two reasons why I believe Archer was not selected
  1. Ghost of Bofors Scandal haunting congress - main factor
  2. Erratic policies of Sweden viz. a vis. India
 

Angel of War

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Archer is based on Volvo A30D, all-terrain articulated hauler. Link
It is a proven vehicle for cross country operation and mining operation (known for their notorious temporary road). Volvo A30D can very well perform on sand dunes. It as a proven track record for the same
All parameters of Volvo A30D are well documented and publicly available. Volvo A30D is more than capable for operation in all type of terrain even better than K9. The terrain argument is deeply flawed.

Armored thrust in Pakistan is a pipe dream. It has been a pipe dream sense Kargil. Pakistan has downgraded nuclear threshold to such a lower level that any large Indian formation in Pakistani soil will be nuked. Indian strategic planners have identified this hence cold start strategy.
Large scale tank battle like in 1965 or 1971 have become antiquated.

Any major action will take place in Punjab where both countries have huge population centers near to border. Rajasthan desert will have very less action. Pakistan tried once and badly failed. Its highly unlikely they will try again.

Thar desert offers no cover and all vehicles will be targeted by cluster munitions and MRLS.
No same commander will send large formation over Thar desert.
MRLS and cluster munitions are preferred in open spaces like Thar desert over tube artillery.
Ground.

Artillery is not expected to engage enemy infantry in direct combat but things go haywire in combat and artillery has cover of infantry. Counter battery fire is the biggest threat to any artillery. K9 can't also survive counter-battery fire.

SPA is procured to fight in Punjab, Jammu and now LAC.

If you have procured SPA to move armored divisions their is no need for concealment as such.
Archer is less bulky and voluminous than K9.

The two reasons why I believe Archer was not selected
  1. Ghost of Bofors Scandal haunting congress - main factor
  2. Erratic policies of Sweden viz. a vis. India
Buddy , there is a simple answer to all of what you said - army wanted a tracked howitzer , k9 filled that requirement, archer is not tracked , simple. Period :)
 

Angel of War

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Armored thrust in Pakistan is a pipe dream. It has been a pipe dream sense Kargil. Pakistan has downgraded nuclear threshold to such a lower level that any large Indian formation in Pakistani soil will be nuked. Indian strategic planners have identified this hence cold start strategy.
Large scale tank battle like in 1965 or 1971 have become antiquated.
If you have been observing our military exercises post 2002 then you'll say not say such a thing. Cold start is meant to sent armoured columns 15-20km deep and then hold that territory , large scale armoured thrusts are meant to quickly overun the enemy and occupy the territory, it's not meant to engage enemy tanks in tank battles.
Any major action will take place in Punjab where both countries have huge population centers near to border. Rajasthan desert will have very less action. Pakistan tried once and badly failed. Its highly unlikely they will try again.
Punjab is locked in a stalemate, we don't have any advantage against pak army there. whereas in the deset sector we have an advantage, if you study the deployment pattern of our strike corps (II and XXI)you'll find that two of them are meant for the desert sector, this is enough to make a judgement as to which sector will see major action. They have even more armour than us in punjab. But the problem for an invasion in Punjab are the rivers , marshes , DCBs , Canals and the most dangerous of all - heavily armed civllians in urban areas, punjab is densely populated , there is no doubt you'll need to engage in urban combat in towns to take control of territory. Such a scenario is safely avoided south of Multan.
Thar desert offers no cover and all vehicles will be targeted by cluster munitions and MRLS. No same commander will send large formation over Thar desert.
MRLS and cluster munitions are preferred in open spaces like Thar desert over tube artillery.
Ground.
You say that no commander will send large armoured formations over thar whereas We have 2 armoured divisions in thar along with 3 indpendent armoured and 1 independent mech brigade and 3 RAPID divisions . This is enough to prove your argument false. As for threat from enemy artillery , each strike corps has an artillery division, to prepare the ground for invasion. And the threat is prominent in punjab too , an invading force there can become an even easier target because mobility across punjab is a nightmare , just look out for the sheer amount of canals , DCBs and anti tank ditches that exist there . What you are saying does not reflect in the force deployment pattern in thar , why do we have nearly 11 divisions in that sector then out of which 6 are offensive in nature, care to explain?
SPA is procured to fight in Punjab, Jammu and now LAC.
This is literally the worst argument you could've presented ! Care to explain why K9 units are attacthed to XII and XXI corps both of which operate in the desert sector, if it was bought to fight in punjab as you say then why isn't it serving there sir ? There is not a single K9 regiment serving in Punjab plains. The deployment in Ladakh was an ad hoc move , you know it too , it was not anticipated at all.
If you have procured SPA to move armored divisions their is no need for concealment as such.
Large scale Armoured maneuvering works on the principle of deception. Most moving vehicles are concealed in camoflauge as observed during war games. There is a deception company in strike corps which prepares tanks for an invasion. We even contact small welding workshops in moga to prepare fake turrets of t90s and fix them on jeep jongas to fool the enemy UAVs.
Archer is less bulky and voluminous than K9.

The two reasons why I believe Archer was not selected
  1. Ghost of Bofors Scandal haunting congress - main factor
  2. Erratic policies of Sweden viz. a vis. India
Archer was not selected because it was a competition for tracked SPGs , I don't know why you don't understand that. Wheeled SPGs and Tracked SPGs are different things.
 
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