Army's ammunition won't last 20 days of war

Ray

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Army's ammunition won't last 20 days of war

Even as mortars and guns once again boom along the border with Pakistan, alarm bells continue to clang over the crippling shortage of ammunition reserves in the 1.18-million strong Indian Army.

In a grim reality check in March, TOI had reported that India did not have enough ammunition to undertake a full-blown war with "intense fighting" for even 20 days. Six months down the line, the situation on the ground has not changed much.

Officials, however, contend the Modi government is "fully cognizant" of the "shocking state of affairs". Though "urgent steps" are being taken, it will take time to build up the war wastage reserves (WWR) due to the "long-winded" arms procurement procedures as well as the sluggish performance of the 39 factories under the Ordnance Factory Board (OFB), they say.

The WWR, incidentally, should be sufficient for 30 days of "intense" and 30 days of "normal" fighting. With three days of "normal" equal to one of "intense", the WWR should consequently be adequate for 40 days of "intense" fighting.

"But there are deficiencies across the board. The critical ones are for tank and air defence ammunition, anti-tank guided missiles, specialized machine-gun magazines, grenades, mine fuses and the like. Some types of ammunition will not last even a week in a full-fledged war," said a source.

As per the overall Army "ammunition roadmap", the WWR will reach 100% only by 2019 if there is budgetary support of around Rs 97,000 crore. "While 23 types of ammunition have to be imported, OFB will manufacture the rest," said another source.

Phase-I of the roadmap will ensure deficiency of critical ammunition is made up to sustain 20 days of "intense" fighting and three years of training ammunition by March 2015. This will cost Rs 19,250 crore.

Under it, Rs 963 crore worth of ammunition was ordered from the OFB in 2013-2014, while contracts worth another Rs 1,964 crore are already underway in the ongoing fiscal. Similarly, orders for 15,000 3UBK-Invar missiles and 66,000 armour-piercing rounds for the T-90S main-battle tanks have already been inked.

Moreover, 17 import cases are now being "progressed'' for specialized ammunition. "Around 10 RFPs (request for proposals) have already been issued. These things take time. Overall, for instance, there were 23 contracts worth Rs 16,177 crore inked for the Army in 2013-2014," said an official.

But ammunition shortages have become the norm in the world's second-largest Army over the last couple of decades. India, in fact, had to undertake "emergency purchases" at exorbitant prices from Israel during the almost 70-day but limited Kargil conflict in 1999.

Ammunition, incidentally, is held at three levels. The "first line" of "on-weapon" and "unit reserve" is held at the battalion-level. The "second line" is with brigades and divisions. Finally, there is the WWR held in a dispersed manner in different depots.
Army's ammunition won't last 20 days of war - The Times of India
What a sorry state of affairs our good old Saint Anthony has led us into, maybe under the guidance of the Queen Bee as she did with Manmohan to hush up on the 'Fishtail' issue, as reported in the Sunday Guardian.

It is time to do away with the Ordnance factories and give it to the private sector or have a PPP.

Ordnance factories are a drain on the exchequer, babudom ridden with no accountability and infamous for slippages or poor quality products.

If much of the ammunition has to be imported, then India should invite those companies to set up shop in India so that this mess does not occur. the FDI in defence is a correct step in this direction.
 

Srinivas_K

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Mr @Ray I think we need atleast 2 months of ammunition and oil reserves just in case of war with China and Pakistan.
 
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Blackwater

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@Ray sir wat could be the reason apart from stated in the media. I need to know your personnel point of view
 
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Ray

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Mr @Ray I think we need atleast 2 months of ammunition and oil reserves just in case of war with China and Pakistan.

Determined from experience, a unit of fire was the amount of ammunition that would last, on average, for one day of fighting.

Ammunition 'wastage' is calculated on the intensity of battle expected.

There will be periods when it will be 'slow', 'normal' or 'intense'.

This depends on the tactical situation that manifests itself based on the capability of the enemy. The terrain also plays a role in the determination.

Since attacks cannot be relentless all along the front or fronts. there will be varying degrees of 'intensity'.

Therefore, based on a statistical model, based on the experience, the 'wastage' is calculated.
 
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Ray

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@Ray sir wat could be the reason apart from stated in the media. I need to know your personnel point of view
Delays in placing orders, delays in production, delays in supplying and so on.

And of course, finances.

But most importantly, stupid bureaucrats and worse, idiotic Ministers.

India has seen many idiots, but Anthony takes the cake!
 
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Srinivas_K

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Determined from experience, a unit of fire was the amount of ammunition that would last, on average, for one day of fighting.

Ammunition 'wastage' is calculated on the intensity of battle expected.

There will be periods when it will be 'slow', 'normal' or 'intense'.

This depends on the tactical situation that manifests itself. The terrain also plays a role in the determination.

Since attacks cannot be relentless all along the front or fronts. there will be varying degrees of 'intensity'.

Therefore, based on a statistical model, based on the experience, the 'wastage' is calculated.
Thanks Mr @Ray
 
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Singh

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Delays in placing orders, delays in production, delays in supplying and so on.

And of course, finances.

But most importantly, stupid bureaucrats and worse, idiotic Ministers.

India has seen many idiots, but Anthony takes the cake!
I find it quite odd, to save his "Saintly" image, Anthony is guilty of dereliction of duty by compromising the nation's security. I would've preferred a guy who would've not compromised on nation's security and in the process made some money too.
 

Ray

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I find it quite odd, to save his "Saintly" image, Anthony is guilty of dereliction of duty by compromising the nation's security. I would've preferred a guy who would've not compromised on nation's security and in the process made some money too.
How can one not know that some did not 'canonise' him to become a Saint? ;)
 

kseeker

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Gentlemen,

This article is from Rajat Pandit. So, think about it's credibility, just sayin...
 

Ray

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Gentlemen,

This article is from Rajat Pandit. So, think about it's credibility, just sayin...
Could you elaborate.

I actually don't know him.

How many days of WWR does IA have?

Having observed how things are going, I cannot help but believe him.
 
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hitesh

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This excuse was also given during Kargil war that IA will run out of RT shell soon ,in case of full blown war .
 

Ray

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This excuse was also given during Kargil war that IA will run out of RT shell soon ,in case of full blown war .
Wasn't too wrong.

We had to import Bofors ammunition etc, if IIRC.

I don't think that was an excuse, but a reality.

Been there, seen that.
 

kseeker

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Could you elaborate.

I actually don't know him.

How many days of WWR does IA have?

Having observed how things are going, I cannot help but believe him.
Rajat Pandit guy is (in)famous for writing some fictitious stuffs. Some of his articles on Tejas LCA are the proof of that. I don't have any evidence to back my claim however, time and again his articles were proven incorrect, that too on DFI, IIRC.

I understand, IA's situation is not that great but I feel, it's not that worst as well as depicted in the article.
 

Ray

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Rajat Pandit guy is (in)famous for writing some fictitious stuffs. Some of his articles on Tejas LCA are the proof of that. I don't have any evidence to back my claim however, time and again his articles were proven incorrect, that too on DFI, IIRC.

I understand, IA's situation is not that great but I feel, it's not that worst as well as depicted in the article.
I am not too in depth about these so called Defence correspondent since they always seem to have an axe to grind, like that chap who is the AC Col, I forget his name.

Yet, whatever little I have seen or heard, does not give me confidence, though I would not dismiss that it might be an exaggeration.
 

ladder

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I am not too in depth about these so called Defence correspondent since they always seem to have an axe to grind, like that chap who is the AC Col, I forget his name.

Yet, whatever little I have seen or heard, does not give me confidence, though I would not dismiss that it might be an exaggeration.
To bring in the WWR in the current context of ceasefire violations is absurd. If a defense correspondent thinks, this ceasefire violations can lead to a war and starts counting the WWR then there is something amiss for him.

Yes, we must stock up to a level desirable and as you have pointed out is based on various factors including statistics. For we never know who would do a Kargil on us. And that would be bad for us as we have to buy ammunitions from other countries at a premium. And we have been through all these before.

But, in current context it's pure sensationalism on the part of author. As Pakistan is fighting a war on it's own soil and fending of hordes of militia who are conducting cross border raids on Pakistan's posts. And Pakistan is firing dozens of rockets into Afghanistan. And it had didn't have a great economy for last few years to stock up.


So, when in his original article, carried when the news broke he had mentioned that with genuine efforts we can reach full quota WWR only in 2019. And to reproduce it now as a reminder when barely a year has passed in the context of ceasefire violations, as pointed out earlier is sensationalism.
 
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hitesh

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India should have treaty with Israel or Russia to deliver pre specified ammunition in case of emergency at reasonable rates as i am pretty sure we would have few explosions in military armory in case we start stocking large amount of ammunition in peace time :rolleyes:
 
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How many people believe everything they read?
Years ago I remember there was a bullet shortage.
Having short supplies almost forces you to use bigger
Guns more quickly.
 

sesha_maruthi27

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I want to know the life of a single ammunition round.

Will this border skirmish or firing turn into a full scale war?

Is India, in large, ready for such an unprecedented war?

If this turns out into a war, how will India Respond?

Keeping aside the ammunition's, what about missiles like BRAHMOS and other tactical missiles and their availability in case of a war with pakistan?
 

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