Armored Personnel Carriers & Infantry Fighting Vehicles

[plugwater]

Since there are lot of talks about APC and IFV these days I'd like to ask some questions regarding this.

What is the difference between Armored Personal Carrier(APC) and Infantry Fighting Vehicle(IFV) ?
In my understand thanks to singhji and Kinal sir that the primary role of APC is carrying troops and IFV is fighting alongside with troops. Am I right, and what other differences are there?

We have been using BMP-2 for many years but i think now is the time to replace those APCs
So the possible future replacements are
Abhay IFV by DRDO
Polish/Indo IFV
also heard Army is interested in stryker IFV.
Which one should we go for and which is the best suited IFV for Indian Army?

 

[Kunal Biswas]

@manc,
Its nice to see u made a dedicated thread for APC/IFV..

1> A normal APC can be easily converted to IFV by just adding weapon stations for example Russian MT-LB!

A normal APC!

Adding of a turret will make a APC also a IFV..

Therefore just adding of weapon station on a normal armored vehicle can be classified as IFV..


2> Abhay APC/IFV is the best chose for IA to replace BMP-2!

3> IA is interested in Striker MGS not normal striker APC/IFV..

stryker IFV/APC

stryker MGS ( Mobile gun system )

IA is interested in Stryker MGS coz of its requirement of 200+ wheelbase Gun system..

 

[Agantrope]

Since there are lot of talks about APC and IFV these days I'd like to ask some questions regarding this.

What is the difference between Armored Personal Carrier(APC) and Infantary Fighting Vehicle(IFV) ?
In my understand thanks to singhji and Kinal sir that the primary role of APC is carrying troops and IFV is fighting alongside with troops. Am I right, and what other differences are there?

We have been using BMP-2 for many years but i think now is the time to replace those APCs
So the possible future replacements are
Abhay IFV by DRDO
Polish/Indo IFV
also heard Army is interested in stryker IFV.
Which one should we go for and which is the best suited IFV for Indian Army?

Stryker is Wheeled one so it will be very handy than a tracked one for deployment in the NE Region

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Comparison between Abhay APC/IFV and BMP-2..

BMP-2
1 x 30mm cannon
1 x 30 AGL
1 X 7.62x51mm MG
1 X ATGM

Its very inconvenient to travel inside a bmp coz passenger compartment is small where 8 guys somehow stuffed inside..
It cannot take 50cal rounds from side..
It can be destroyed by 80mm to 120mm motar round from above..

The doors are fuel reserves, in case of 50cal impact it will burst into flames and killing the crew also the passenger inside..

Abhay APC/IFV

1 x 40mm cannon
1 x 7.62x51mm MG
2 X ATGM

Recent test are good indication that it can survive 50cal from all sides..
Passenger compartment is better than BMP-2

More info will be available on further research..


Presently as per my view Abhay is better than BMP-2..

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Stryker is Wheeled one so it will be very handy than a tracked one for deployment in the NE Region

Correct also the maintenance cost is less compare to tracked once..
Stryker MGS can be used in J&K with GR8 success..

 

[plugwater]

Stryker is Wheeled one so it will be very handy than a tracked one for deployment in the NE Region

USA already have plans to replace Stryker with BCT Ground Combat Vehicle Program. So imo we should go for our indigenous program.

Correct also the maintenance cost is less compare to tracked once..
Stryker MGS can be used in J&K with GR8 success..

Army is interested in stryker IFV. It is looking to increase its amphibious capability by buying stryker IFV. Here is the link there is no mention of MGS

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...d-personnel-carriers-/articleshow/5216524.cms

 

[Agantrope]

USA already have plans to replace Stryker with BCT Ground Combat Vehicle Program. So imo we should go for our indigenous program.

We dont have the technology base to go for indigenous

 

[Singh]

@manc Stryker is not indigenous
@agantrope why not ?

 

[plugwater]

I meant we dont have tech for the Wheeled ones. Tracked we alrready have Abhay

If we had thought like this in past we would not be having a tracked one too. So every project has to start at some point, i think its time to start our own indigenous wheeled carrier.

 

[Singh]

@manc,
Its nice to see u made a dedicated thread for APC/IFV..

1> A normal APC can be easily converted to IFV by just adding weapon stations for example Russian MT-LB!

Therefore just adding of weapon station on a normal armored vehicle can be classified as IFV..


2> Abhay APC/IFV is the best chose for IA to replace BMP-2!

3> IA is interested in Striker MGS not normal striker APC/IFV..

IA is interested in Stryker MGS coz of its requirement of 200+ wheelbase Gun system..

1. APC/IFV are not defined in terms of their firepower but by their role.

APC is used to deploy combat troops to the battlefied, it can also be used for surveillance, patrolling, towing etc. It is not used to directly engage the enemy but can provide support if need be. Some APCs with a lot of firepower whilst some don't.

Many armies use IFVs in conjuction with MBTs to protect MBTs or as an armor cover for infantry troops, allowing them to advance while they engage lightly armoured and aerial targets.

2. That depends on the other choices as well.

3. From what I read previously US showed off the Strykers but the Army hasn't expressed any sincere interest ? And the US troops aren't too happy with the Strykers

 

[Kunal Biswas]

1. APC/IFV are not defined in terms of their firepower but by their role.

@Mr Singh
A armored vehicle for IFV role is selected by its firepower, but since 70s most APC are able to do the duel role..

APC is used to deploy combat troops to the battlefied, it can also be used for surveillance, patrolling, towing etc. It is not used to directly engage the enemy but can provide support if need be. Some APCs with a lot of firepower whilst some don't.

Correct, but as far as i know APCs like BMP-1/2 use in direct assault on dug in position infantry position, their are very few who don't have even a single MG!
Almost all operational main APC in the world have 20mm-40mm for IFV role..

Many armies use IFVs in conjuction with MBTs to protect MBTs or as an armor cover for infantry troops, allowing them to advance while they engage lightly armoured and aerial targets.

Right, but let me correct this APC/IFV work with armored thrusts to provide anti-Infantry support also to provide long range AT capability ( In case of Russian )..

2. That depends on the other choices as well.

Other may not provide the amount of firepower also the price per unit..

From what I read previously US showed off the Strykers but the Army hasn't expressed any sincere interest ? And the US troops aren't too happy with the Strykers

Well its true but our need are different tahn US, We need lighter wheel based Gun system and styker provides it well..

Army is interested in stryker IFV. It is looking to increase its amphibious capability by buying stryker IFV. Here is the link there is no mention of MGS

I am sure media made error while reporting, IA interested in 200+ wheel based gun system ( MGS )

 

[Rahul Singh]

The doors are fuel reserves, in case of 50cal impact it will burst into flames and killing the crew also the passenger inside..

How can 8 infantry men be adjusted in those broke space? Hell, they will be exhausted even without reaching place of action. Army needs to think towards soldiers comfort. If they hate DRDO, then let it be, don't buy Abhay but for god shake please discontinue BMP-2s.

 

[Yatharth Singh]

How can 8 infantry men be adjusted in those broke space? Hell, they will be exhausted even without reaching place of action. Army needs to think towards soldiers comfort. If they hate DRDO, then let it be, don't buy Abhay but for god shake please discontinue BMP-2s.

This is not a BMW that its manufacturers or the will think for the comfort( I know here you mean the proper seating arrangements). By the way this is a design introduced in 1980, so taking the technology of that period into account, what better do you expect rather than what is shown here.
At least it is a far good design compared to other APC/IFV of its time. It is the fault of the IA that they are still using BMP-2, no matter whether it is an upgraded Sarath or anything else `cause the basic design is the same. At least Sri Lanka also uses BMP-3 which is somehow better than BMP-2.

 

[Agantrope]

How can 8 infantry men be adjusted in those broke space? Hell, they will be exhausted even without reaching place of action. Army needs to think towards soldiers comfort. If they hate DRDO, then let it be, don't buy Abhay but for god shake please discontinue BMP-2s.

They are not going travel from Hyderabad to chennai in this; a short say 20-30mins in the battlefield for that comfort is not in high priority.Its duty is to protect the soldiers from the incoming fire.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Sir, what he status of Abhay now. Last time when i saw that they said it is a TD as of now (5 years back), It has got what it want from engine to armour (Kanchan, non-sandwiched one)

Presently their is no info on the vehicle..
though their was a detailed information on abhay back in 2009..

Btw, Kanchan is Indian Chobham armour and it is sandwich type, for more knowladge:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chobham_armour

 

[ppgj]

@kunal biswas

sir, you can read more about Kanchan composite armour here -

http://frontierindia.net/the-kanchan-armor

 

[shuvo@y2k10]

the IA is interested in everythindg with a foreign label(previously russian and recently the us ones). i remember way back in 1995-96 when general roychoudhury was the coas he propsed a mgs based on arjun chassis.succesive military leaders have not even bothered to consider that proposal-and what is expected of them is now that they have 124 arjuns (and ordered 124 more),keeping with their long tradition the have opted for foreign junks like t90, and now stryker mgs.

 

[Agantrope]

Kunal Sir,
Can you post more details on the DRDO and OFB (105mm Canon) Light tank with tracked option.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Kunal Sir,
Can you post more details on the DRDO and OFB (105mm Canon) Light tank with tracked option.

105 mm Light Tank by DRDO

105 mm Light Tank

DRDO has developed a light tank based on BMP-II chassis with 105 mm turret (GIAT industries, France). This
vehicle is aimed to carry high caliber weapons without sacrificing the strategic or tactical mobility. Mechanical
integration of turret with chassis, stability during firing, and compatibility of 105 mm Indian Armour Piercing Fin
Stabilised Discarding Sabot (APFSDS) ammunition with turret have been established during the trials.

Salient Features

* Crew : 3 men for turret
* main Gun : 105 mm semi-automatic with muzzle brake
* Turret: Al alloy with 12.7 AP protection level
* Ammunition : APFSDS, APDS, HESH
* Fire Control System (FCS) : COTAC semi-automatic
* Stowing capability: Main gunâ€"42 rounds (turretâ€"10 rounds; ammunition compartmentâ€"32 rounds)
* Accurate ranging by Laser Range Finder (LRF)
* Low-light level TV for commander and gunner
* Panoramic sight for Commander
* Amphibian capabilities


http://www.drdo.com/pub/techfocus/2009/aug09.pdf
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DRDO_light_tank
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?89961-Indian-Armed-Forces&p=4532505&viewfull=1

http://www.defenceforum.in/forum/showthread.php/3294-105-mm-Light-Tank-by-DRDO

 

[Agantrope]

105 mm Light Tank by DRDO

105 mm Light Tank

DRDO has developed a light tank based on BMP-II chassis with 105 mm turret (GIAT industries, France). This
vehicle is aimed to carry high caliber weapons without sacrificing the strategic or tactical mobility. Mechanical
integration of turret with chassis, stability during firing, and compatibility of 105 mm Indian Armour Piercing Fin
Stabilised Discarding Sabot (APFSDS) ammunition with turret have been established during the trials.

Salient Features

* Crew : 3 men for turret
* main Gun : 105 mm semi-automatic with muzzle brake
* Turret: Al alloy with 12.7 AP protection level
* Ammunition : APFSDS, APDS, HESH
* Fire Control System (FCS) : COTAC semi-automatic
* Stowing capability: Main gunâ€"42 rounds (turretâ€"10 rounds; ammunition compartmentâ€"32 rounds)
* Accurate ranging by Laser Range Finder (LRF)
* Low-light level TV for commander and gunner
* Panoramic sight for Commander
* Amphibian capabilities


http://www.drdo.com/pub/techfocus/2009/aug09.pdf
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DRDO_light_tank
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?89961-Indian-Armed-Forces&p=4532505&viewfull=1

http://www.defenceforum.in/forum/showthread.php/3294-105-mm-Light-Tank-by-DRDO

Any idea why this one is rejected without any trails?