Armenian-Azerbaijan 2020 War

[Tiwariji]

I doubt they will give operational clearance after just 4 tests.

There might be user trials by army . Cnt say how many .

 

[Tshering22]

Armenia already bought Iskander fr tht reason . Iskander have almost the same stats as Pralay but it's not Hypersonic like Iskander. The Russians scamed them by giving defected ones, if the missiles they have worked properly Baku would have been a toast. If they want a Pralay deal, it will take atleast 6-7 years or more fr them to receive one as still only 2 tests have been conducted by India and they will atleast do 6 to 7 tests before giving operational clearance which will aleast take another 3 years .Mass production will take another 3-4 years since priority will be given fr Indias missile needs first . If they want missiles fr their immediate use , I suggest they go fr Agni series variant which is already in mass production and can be delivered in 3 years time.

I don't know whether Russians are an ally or the enemies of Armenia. They have been shorting them from the first war in 1992. Armenia has been constantly the discriminated one despite Azerbaijan not being a part of CSTO and has been cheated several times.

What's worse, Armenia activated Article 5 of the CSTO and Russia refused! While this could be due to the Ukraine war, This still didn't see response from Kazakh, Uzbek, Tajik and Kyrgyz forces who should have sent troops in Armenia's aid.

Looks like Armenians might join the EU or become a base for NATO (if NATO remains in tact).

 

[AnantS]

I don't know whether Russians are an ally or the enemies of Armenia. They have been shorting them from the first war in 1992. Armenia has been constantly the discriminated one despite Azerbaijan not being a part of CSTO and has been cheated several times.

What's worse, Armenia activated Article 5 of the CSTO and Russia refused! While this could be due to the Ukraine war, This still didn't see response from Kazakh, Uzbek, Tajik and Kyrgyz forces who should have sent troops in Armenia's aid.

Looks like Armenians might join the EU or become a base for NATO (if NATO remains in tact).

joining NATO shall be suicidal for Armenia. What any country can do is determined by what countries it borders. Armenia has not much options.

 

[TopWatcher]

Anyway it's good for us. As it will prove Indian systems.

 

[Flying Dagger]

Loitering munitions is fine, but Pralay? Armed with it, they'd be able to flatten critical command infrastructure in Baku city proper, when used in sufficient numbers. Not to mention hit targets deep inside Turkey if it came to that.

What are the chances that Ninda Turtle would agree? Sure, Azerbaijan is messing around with Pakistani ummah ka chumma, but ballistic missiles would be overkill.

They have some Russian missiles too which they didn't use out of fear. Chances of using pralay are lower.

We can sell them Brahmos too if they have the budget. Ninda mama and modi baba will love the military sale and use it in election campaign too.

I don't know whether Russians are an ally or the enemies of Armenia. They have been shorting them from the first war in 1992. Armenia has been constantly the discriminated one despite Azerbaijan not being a part of CSTO and has been cheated several times.

What's worse, Armenia activated Article 5 of the CSTO and Russia refused! While this could be due to the Ukraine war, This still didn't see response from Kazakh, Uzbek, Tajik and Kyrgyz forces who should have sent troops in Armenia's aid.

Looks like Armenians might join the EU or become a base for NATO (if NATO remains in tact).

Their Pro America/Europe stance killed the absolute Russian support and favor. Add to that Azerbaijan is economically beneficial for Russia too.

There might be user trials by army . Cnt say how many .

It's simply enhanced version of prahar already proven system from prithvi /sagarika etc are used. tests have been completely succesful too , it was a mature product from the beginning unlike Agni etc.

 

[Blademaster]

Armenia already bought Iskander fr tht reason . Iskander have almost the same stats as Pralay but it's not Hypersonic like Iskander. The Russians scamed them by giving defected ones, if the missiles they have worked properly Baku would have been a toast. If they want a Pralay deal, it will take atleast 6-7 years or more fr them to receive one as still only 2 tests have been conducted by India and they will atleast do 6 to 7 tests before giving operational clearance which will aleast take another 3 years .Mass production will take another 3-4 years since priority will be given fr Indias missile needs first . If they want missiles fr their immediate use , I suggest they go fr Agni series variant which is already in mass production and can be delivered in 3 years time.

Selling them Agni series???? That's a strategic weapon for India's use and no one else. Besides it would violate the MTCR which India is part of.

 

[AnantS]

Anyway it's good for us. As it will prove Indian systems.

I am not too excited about Armenia being litmus test for our weapon systems.

 

[Flying Dagger]

Armenia already bought Iskander fr tht reason . Iskander have almost the same stats as Pralay but it's not Hypersonic like Iskander. The Russians scamed them by giving defected ones, if the missiles they have worked properly Baku would have been a toast. If they want a Pralay deal, it will take atleast 6-7 years or more fr them to receive one as still only 2 tests have been conducted by India and they will atleast do 6 to 7 tests before giving operational clearance which will aleast take another 3 years .Mass production will take another 3-4 years since priority will be given fr Indias missile needs first . If they want missiles fr their immediate use , I suggest they go fr Agni series variant which is already in mass production and can be delivered in 3 years time.

Pragati Prahar etc in production.... Pralay will simply join the production line in same factories with many same or upgraded systems.

And i think it must be Pragati with 150 km range or the extended 200 km range missile.

Pralay itself exceed MTCR.

Armenia already bought Iskander fr tht reason . Iskander have almost the same stats as Pralay but it's not Hypersonic like Iskander. The Russians scamed them by giving defected ones, if the missiles they have worked properly Baku would have been a toast.

They decided not to use Iskander for their own good and to not escalate the war. A few Iskander won't win the war for them.

 

[STORE]

Pragati Prahar etc in production.... Pralay will simply join the production line in same factories with many same or upgraded systems.

And i think it must be Pragati with 150 km range or the extended 200 km range missile.

Pralay itself exceed MTCR.





They decided not to use Iskander for their own good and to not escalate the war. A few Iskander won't win the war for them.

They did use Iskander but many dint explode. Thts why they r looking fr new missiles.

 

[Tiwariji]

They have some Russian missiles too which they didn't use out of fear. Chances of using pralay are lower.

We can sell them Brahmos too if they have the budget. Ninda mama and modi baba will love the military sale and use it in election campaign too.



Their Pro America/Europe stance killed the absolute Russian support and favor. Add to that Azerbaijan is economically beneficial for Russia too.



It's simply enhanced version of prahar already proven system from prithvi /sagarika etc are used. tests have been completely succesful too , it was a mature product from the beginning unlike Agni etc.

Redirect Notice

 

[TopWatcher]

I am not too excited about Armenia being litmus test for our weapon systems.

I know only having good weapons doesnt work, you need good commanding officer/strategy/other resources/supply line.

 

[Flying Dagger]

They did use Iskander but many dint explode. Thts why they r looking fr new missiles.

Redirect Notice

Please read the article shared by Tiwariji.

At the end it's clearly mentioned they used it in one city and took advantage but then the PM asked the army to stop using it .

For homo Globo or out of fear , one can call it out anything but it is , what it is.

 

[Tshering22]

joining NATO shall be suicidal for Armenia. What any country can do is determined by what countries it borders. Armenia does not have many options.

Technically difficult, yes, due to Turkey torpedoing the move using their veto. But not operationally. Russia can't afford to invade another country at this stage. Not even Armenia. The Russian bases inside Armenia have barely enough soldiers to fight a small operation, let alone a full-scale war.

But given how NATO is faltering and is being unmasked in this war as nothing more than American puppets, the disillusion of France, Italy, Germany and Hungary, and the significant weakening of the Western power equation, Armenia will remain in a bind. They need to follow the Deng Xiaoping strategy of lying low and biding their time to ramp up their economy.

Armenian economy is in the dumps as Armenia is like the Kerala/Punjab of Caucasus; most of their working population lives overseas and remittances play a critical role in securing forex. Excessively agrarian and mountainous means that there is not much they can do. Their landlocked geography also limits their options as a transshipment hub (except probably being a part of INSTC).

 

[AnantS]

Technically difficult, yes, due to Turkey torpedoing the move using their veto. But not operationally. Russia can't afford to invade another country at this stage. Not even Armenia. The Russian bases inside Armenia have barely enough soldiers to fight a small operation, let alone a full-scale war.

But given how NATO is faltering and is being unmasked in this war as nothing more than American puppets, the disillusion of France, Italy, Germany and Hungary, and the significant weakening of the Western power equation, Armenia will remain in a bind. They need to follow the Deng Xiaoping strategy of lying low and biding their time to ramp up their economy.

Armenian economy is in the dumps as Armenia is like the Kerala/Punjab of Caucasus; most of their working population lives overseas and remittances play a critical role in securing forex. Excessively agrarian and mountainous means that there is not much they can do. Their landlocked geography also limits their options as a transshipment hub (except probably being a part of INSTC).

Armenia in NATO means Iran cooperation say Bye Bye to friendship and hello to fiendship. Armenia is landlocked. For NATO to set up base in Armenia, it will need cooperation of Turkey, Georgia. And both shall refuse to entertain that request

 

[Tshering22]

Armenia in NATO means Iran cooperation say Bye Bye to friendship and hello to fiendship. Armenia is landlocked. For NATO to set up base in Armenia, it will need cooperation of Turkey, Georgia. And both shall refuse to entertain that request

They really don't have many options. Iran cooperates with them with minor benefits compared to what a benevolent Europe/NATO brigade would bring. Also given that Armenia is a democracy and that there is a strong Armenian lobby in the West, they will stand to gain more.

That being said, they need to offer something more than just their location to NATO in order to reap rewards. Given how most of Europe is going down the drain, it's a matter of time before the Turk-Azeri fascists plunder Armenia. Also, Pakistan could get involved the way it did in 2020 by sending its troops secretly.

 

[AnantS]

They really don't have many options. Iran cooperates with them with minor benefits compared to what a benevolent Europe/NATO brigade would bring. Also given that Armenia is a democracy and that there is a strong Armenian lobby in the West, they will stand to gain more.

That being said, they need to offer something more than just their location to NATO in order to reap rewards. Given how most of Europe is going down the drain, it's a matter of time before the Turk-Azeri fascists plunder Armenia. Also, Pakistan could get involved the way it did in 2020 by sending its troops secretly.

Exactly Armenia is in difficult geographical as well as geopolitical battle. Nato support needs land air or sea corridor. Even for a moment we assume if NATO decides to support Armenia on Christian brotherhood basis, where shall they establish a logistical corridor to Armenia.

 

[Super Flanker]

Armenia has Iskanders not Azeris. I read Iskanders given to Armenia r of poor quality and r extremely unreliable. It was used during war with Azeri and had lot of malfunctions. They say wht they got was old stuff from Soviet times. Basically scammed them.

I cannot understand what you are trying to say when you say "Soviet times"? Are you trying to say that the Iskander missiles which Armenia had received from Russia were of Soviet Era? Because if you are implying that, then you are wrong. Development of Iskander had started in 1988 before the dissolution of USSR but it entered serial production only after 2005 and entered service with the Russian Army. The Soviet Union dissolved in 1991, so even though it's development started during the era of USSR, it entered production many years after the Soviet Union's dissolution. So in my opinion, it is not exactly Soviet Era stuff, it is more modern & advanced than most Soviet Ballistic missiles at that time. Coming to performance of Iskandar in Armenia-Azerbaijan war then I really don't know about how they performed, so its kinda confusing to me, there always claims and counter claims for everything these days.

 

[Hari Sud]

What Armenia needs is not missiles but drones & UCAV and anti drone hardware to shoot down Turkish drones which created hell for Armenia in the last war two years back. If Armenia have those, the Azerbaijan and Turkey dare not attack them with immunity.

 

[Super Flanker]

What Armenia needs is not missiles but drones & UCAV and anti drone hardware to shoot down Turkish drones which created hell for Armenia in the last war two years back. If Armenia have those, the Azerbaijan and Turkey dare not attack them with immunity.

Armenia needs everything they can get their hands on, be it drones, Artillery, SAMs etc. In my opinion, in order to counter Turkish drones & UCAVs, what Armenia needs is not more drones but more ADS systems like S-300 etc. We should offer Akash SAM systems to Armenia, Akash can engage aerial targets at a maximum altitude of 18 km (59,000 ft), during the 2020 Armenia-Azerbaijan conflict, Azerbaijan had used Turkish TB-2 drones and loitering munitions (Some of which were Israeli made), the TB-2 is said to have a max flight ceiling of 27,000 ft. I read that Akash has a max range of 27-30 kms. The Akash has enough range & flight altitude to counter UCAVs like TB-2.

 

[Flying Dagger]

Exactly Armenia is in difficult geographical as well as geopolitical battle. Nato support needs land air or sea corridor. Even for a moment we assume if NATO decides to support Armenia on Christian brotherhood basis, where shall they establish a logistical corridor to Armenia.

They don't want another economic burden... Else Georgia can be tapped .