Arjun Main Battle Tank (MBT)

[WARREN SS]

What is Protection of Arjun mk1 Against APFSDS
And HEAT rounds

Is there Data available

 

[ArgonPrime]

They will never send thier kids , will they ?

Abhinandan?? Remember what the COAS had said to his father over the phone after his capture?? You think he would have shown the same level of concern and efforts to extricate him if the good pilot belonged from a more humble origin??

 

[ArgonPrime]

What is Protection of Arjun mk1 Against APFDS
And HEAT rounds

Is there Data available

While any concrete data is not available in the public domain, frontally at least, the armor should provide an adequate level of protection if the round impacts a portion covered by the armor that is. The problem with Arjun's design is that it's riddled with several weak spots of sizable proportions within the frontal hemisphere in its turret as well as the hull and if a round impact anywhere in those areas, then the tank will be in big trouble.
And by the way, one thing to consider here is that we neither had a good enough gun (like the Rheinmetall series) nor had modern APFSDS ammo in our arsenal to test the efficacy of the armor against, so really, we can't know for certain.

 

[porky_kicker]

What is Protection of Arjun mk1 Against APFSDS
And HEAT rounds

Is there Data available

I had them but deleted them long time back , some docs might still be available if Google searched.

Anyways older kanchan armour defeated Israeli APFSDS rounds at point blank range. The scientists and army officers were so surprised they had to double check if the Israelis were supplying training rounds as APFSDS rounds. Turned out it was genuine APFSDS rounds.

 

[ArgonPrime]

I had them .

Anyways older kanchan armour defeated Israeli APFSDS rounds at point blank range. The scientists and army officers were so surprised they had to double check if the Israelis were supplying training rounds as APFSDS rounds. Turned out it was genuine APFSDS round.

I think it was a 3BM42M Mango out of a 2A46M 125mm L/52 gun of a T-72M1 that was defeated, which is of 80's vintage technology by the way.

 

[WARREN SS]

In a war sacrifice is necessary... we may build the best tank but soldiers will die.

Problem with Indian tanks is neither they are economically sound nor provide ample protection or user friendly.

We are just flushing our money on substandard designs and imports. The tech develop for arjun itself can help us build tanks better than T-90s we import. The situation is same everywhere whether tanks artillery rifles or even Tejas.

If it wasn't for some one like Manohar Parrikar who definitely interfered to improve on with mk2 variant and naval version etc we would have been left with a substandard Tejas forced on IAF.

Arjun project needs to be shelved right away and the tech developed so far be used to upgrade T-90s and T 72s

The focus should be on FMBT.

T-90 is superb designed tank
Armour is still with Stand Top tier Nato Rounds

You have seen it in Syria it With stand Tow Atgms

What Russian lacked a Good Hard kill
APS

What it needs a Good APS,APU and New Generation APFSDS
Target Aquision Systems.
And T-90M
Class Upgrade

And it will anahilate Any Chinese tank .


What Arjun project needs serious consideration
We need to privatize arjun project
Give TOT to L&T or others if we want it to be successful.

 

[WARREN SS]

I think it was a 3BM42M Mango out of a 2A46M 125mm L/52 gun of a T-72M1 that was defeated, which is of 80's vintage technology by the way.

Decent 450 -500 mm

T-90s has 850mm against APFSDS
I think Arjun mk2 has btw 850- 900mm
With NERA

 

[ArgonPrime]

What you think is different matter . Anyone can think what he and she wants.

Actually, I know for sure it was a Mango, with a pathetic L: D ratio of 15:1. I was just being modest but some folks simply do not deserve our modesty it appears.

I specifically said Israeli APFSDS rounds and that's it .

Your words are not the Gospel, amigo.

 

[porky_kicker]

Actually, I know for sure it was a Mango, with a pathetic L: D ratio of 15:1. I was just being modest but some folks simply do not deserve our modesty it appears.

Your words are not the Gospel, amigo.

I deleted my post when I realised it was you who posted it. You are the person who abused family. You are that sort of person who is best avoided.

@Indx TechStyle
@hit&run
@LurkerBaba
@ezsasa

Don't quote my post ever again

 

[ArgonPrime]

Decent 450 -500 mm

Against the armor technology of that era, yes. But against new marks of Burlington armor, its DOP will likely be a lot lower.

T-90s has 850mm against APFSDS

Only if the Kontact V ERA tiles work as intended. Problem is, modern NATO and US rounds have been designed in such a way that either they wouldn't set off the ERA or can simply breakaway its tip upon detonation of the ERA while the rest of the penetrator goes straight through without its trajectory being disrupted. That's why I (and @Bleh ) have been advocating the replacement of K5 derivatives in our service with something like the Duplet/Nozh or Malachit.

I think Arjun mk2 has btw 850- 900mm
With NERA

Quite possible, the sections which are covered by the armor at least. But the rest (like that oversized mantlet and behind Gunner's Primary Sight or the lower front plate) is quite thin.

 

[ArgonPrime]

I deleted my post when I realised it was you who posted it. You are the person who abused family. You are that sort of person who is best avoided.

Dude, I can be and do even worse...............a lot fucking worse in the real world if you catch my drift.

Don't quote my post ever again

If you can't handle the heat, then do us all a favor and get the fuck off the internet, grandpa!! Or if possible, the fucking planet.

 

[porky_kicker]

Dude, I can be and do even worse in real life if you catch my drift.

If you can't handle the heat, then do us all a favor and get the fuck off the internet, grandpa!! Or if possible, get off the fucking planet.

@LurkerBaba
@Indx TechStyle
@hit&run
@ezsasa

 

[ArgonPrime]

@LurkerBaba
@Indx TechStyle
@hit&run

What happened, couldn't handle it by yourself?? Had to run crying to your mommies with your tail between your hind limbs, grandpa??

 

[porky_kicker]

What happened, couldn't handle it by yourself?? Had to run crying to your mommies with your tail between your hind limbs, grandpa??

@LurkerBaba
@Indx TechStyle
@ezsasa
@hit&run

 

[porky_kicker]

Hmmm... so added another one of your mommies to the list?? Achievement unlocked - CRYBABY!! Well fucking done, good sir.

@LurkerBaba
@Indx TechStyle
@ezsasa
@hit&run

 

[ersakthivel]

In a war sacrifice is necessary... we may build the best tank but soldiers will die.

Problem with Indian tanks is neither they are economically sound nor provide ample protection or user friendly.

We are just flushing our money on substandard designs and imports. The tech develop for arjun itself can help us build tanks better than T-90s we import. The situation is same everywhere whether tanks artillery rifles or even Tejas.

If it wasn't for some one like Manohar Parrikar who definitely interfered to improve on with mk2 variant and naval version etc we would have been left with a substandard Tejas forced on IAF.

Arjun project needs to be shelved right away and the tech developed so far be used to upgrade T-90s and T 72s

The focus should be on FMBT.

This FMBT contract by IA is a charade to stall Arjun,

let me explain

IA asks tank builders of the world to

"compete in a design competition with their cutting edge tank design"

IA hasnt even specified a single spec of the FMBT, It is asking the contenders to "define the specs by themselves" . ( but IA changed the GSQR fr Arjun 4 times from 3 men 105 mm gun to 4 men 120 mm gun, thats why Arjun was condemned to be a forever lab rat, )

I just cant understand on what parameters IA will evaluate the FMBT for which it hasnt even given specs,

Then IA chooses the winning design and asks the designer to "surrender " all its IP right IA for FMBT

Then IA unveils a production tender and asks vendors to compete on least price basis in producing the winning design,

The one who quotes least is selected,

This looks like USAF competition , fr stealth fighters

some inconvenient questions,

WIll the design competition winner transfer all his IP rights in the tank to IA?

what if he gives incomplete documentation, Is DGMO competent enough to see that through?

ANd next,

Say, there are shortfalls in performance by the FMBT produced by ,"production competition winner" And IA asks why?

If the production competition winner complains that the design he got is inferior , then who is responsible?

ALso who is responsible for the overall quality of the FMBT ?

If DGMO finds shortfalls I am certain both the "design winner"and "production winner" is going to play foot ball with blaming each other.

We knew what happened to the original Rafale MMRCA, This FMBT tender by IA is even more complex , and it is set up to fail after another decade.

SO in the interim IA will continue to import russian tanks "citing emergency" purchase,
Arjun will be stalled , since it is superceded by "FMBT contract"

ANd world over tank designs were designed by evolution only,

If you watch the Vishnu Som program on ARjun with CVRDE director, you can know IA is still "insisting on 4 men crew non auto loader tank"

But in IA's FMBT tender , details regarding
1. number of crew,
2. Auto loader needed or not,
are "conveniently" left out, but "weight must be around 50 or so tons" alone is specified,

But as far as Arjun is concerned IA is insisting on 4 men crew, manual loading heavy weight tank with " heavy sub assemblies like blow off panel" fr crew survival in case of Ammo cook off.

SO if you take the totality of the sham called IA tank procurement, this FMBT is a smoke screen to buy any foreign tank but Arjun

Parrikar was involved mostly in rescuing Tejas ,HTT 40

Ns did a good job by pushing through 100 odd Arjun mk1A

now we need Rajnathsingh to rescue Arjun Mk2,



what if

 

[Hari Sud]

Really, do Arjun1A have a good APFSDS?
MK2 is good enough for Abrams?

It has everything to make mince meat of Chinese tanks.

 

[ersakthivel]

Tanks with auto loaders hv limits on the" length" of Tungsten rod , (since auto loader has a "length" limitation on APFDS rounds)

T90 etc are basically two piece ammo types autoloader tanks , with an upper limit on the "length' of crucial APFDS rounds,

world over with increase in composite armor tech , we need new rounds with higher penetration for killing enemy tank.

for this we need single piece ammo(which is mostly available with manual loading tanks) Because we can increase the length of APFDS rounds by increasing the length of Tungsten rod in the round, with continuous R&D,

Thats the reason IA gave 4 men manual loading spec for Arjun, to hv single piece Ammo, SO that newer Ammo can be developed and deployed with higher penetration.( which is happening with newer rounds being developed by DRDO)

But IN FMBT contest , no such spec is specified, and everything is purposely left vague,

That reminds me of a saying, You never go far , when you dont know where you are going"

I mean FMBT is road to nowhere , since IA doesnt know where it wants to Go

 

[Blood+]

It has everything to make mince meat of Chinese tanks.

With the present ammo? Not likely, unless the Arjun can get them from the flanks.

 

[Blood+]

Tanks with auto loaders hv limits on the length of Tungsten rod , (since auto loader has a length limitation on APFDS rounds)

T90 etc are basically two piece ammo types with an upper limit on the crucial APFDS rounds,

world over with increase in composite armor tech , we need new rounds with higher penetration for killing enemy tank.

for this we need single piece ammo(which is mostly available with manual loading tanks) Because we can increase the length of APFDS rounds by increasing the length of Tungsten rod in the round,

Thats the reason IA gave 4 men manual loading spec for Arjun. SO that newer Ammo can be developed and deployed with higher penetration.

But IN FMBT contest , no such spec is specified, and everything is purposely left vague,

That reminds me of a saying, You never go far , when you dont know where you are going"

I mean FMBT is road to nowhere , since IA doesnt know where it wants to Go

Just mount the autoloader in the turret bustle as the South Koreans and the French did.