Arjun Main Battle Tank (MBT)

Bleh

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It can be mounted very easily depending on Army's requirement with the penalty of weight gain. Additional armour modules on side, turret top or front and back can also be done as both the ERA, NERA and Kanchan armour is modular.
BEL has also developed TUSK type protection package for BMP which also can be done on Arjun MBT.
Not mounting T-90's RCWS on Arjun Mark 1 is just plain dumb though, no question of weight-gain there.
 

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It will be done once arjun mk1 comes up for a refit in the next 10 years. I am more interested in a revolution mbt type refit proposed by rhinemetal (for leo2a4) on arjun mk1. This is an add-on upgrade and the weight penalty is about 4-5 tones over mark-1 58.5 tonnes. It will be in the weight class of mk1a and mk2. Rhinemetal is offering this upgrade package to all existing customers of leopard 2a4. Also Turkey has come up with a similar upgarde. Hope DRDO comes up with something like this.


 
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Bleh

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This is an add-on upgrade and the weight penalty is about 4-5 tones over mark-1 58.5 tonnes. It will be in the weight class of mk1a and mk2.

Mark 1 was supposed to be 58.5t but was 62.5t. With the upgrades it was 68t & being brought below 65t...
Arjun is taller, wider, longer then Leopard 2 with a much bigger & Jennie engine too.
 

Bhadra

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I also think sir YOUR DEFENCE PROFESSIONALS TAG does not give you moral right OVER THE ONES WHO ARE ACTUALLY WORKING ON THE Guns(that include army as well as government and industry guys and madams).
This last ten pages DISCUSSION end you want.....

OK
FINAL VERDICT: THERE IS NO NEED FOR INDUCTION OF ATHOS "OH MY GOD" GUN.
BECUASE DHANUSH AND ATAGS CAN FULFILL THE ORDERS.
DEVELOPMENT IS NOT A "ONCE IN A LIFETIME THING" IT HAPPENS IN A PHASE manner monthly and yearly.THIS does not mean you stop the induction and wait and THEN TAKE THE MOMENT TO BUY FOREIGN PRODUCTS.
No successful weapon in the world is made like that.
GIVING 114 GUN ORDER TO A GUN THAT HAS PASSED LENGTHY TRIALS IN THE HOPE OF FILLING HUGE NUMBERS is not good for future entrants whether private or PUBLIC, your friends are not making good example for themselves.

EVEN SWARGWAAS FORMER DEFENCE MINISTER shri manohar parrikar sir said" SOMETIME ARMED FORCES REQUIREMENTS ARE LIKE OF STAR WARS WEAPONS" you know to WHOM HE WAS SAYING.
And he said this,if you want to find it, find it in DFI only you will get that.
Regards.
Can you reduce the weight of the gun and bring it to below 12 tons to match it with Bofors, Dhanus and ATIHOS?
That is bloody question? Nothing more nothing less ...

Ka Kari Tarak Barhahain Sakha ??
 

Enquirer

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Are you Babus that you can not make out a typo and wish to dance over it ?
Have you ever read Psychology?
There is one abnormility called "Now I have caught you SOB" ...
You all seem to suffer from it...
Read "What Do You Say After You Say Hello "
and Eric Burn - I am OK You are Ok...
Sayad sudhar jaao.
If someone says something SIX times over TWO different posts, then it's not called a typo! It just reveals lack of knowledge!!!
And then trying to spin it as typo is completely DISHONEST.
Your dishonestly was very obvious when you quoted stuff out of context (about BFSR-MR) and hid the link to the article as it disproved your notion!
 

Enquirer

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I do not have to show you anything.
DRDO was told to develop a 4 man crew Medium tank under 60 tons.
If it was not possible, DRDO should have refused to make it.
Rather than trying to make a Leopard over 60 ton tank or M1A1 which was not asked for and then "cheppo" it with Rona Dhona" on the Army...
The problem is that DRDO / OFB do not have to pay for their child plays from their pockets ?
So keep making that meets their fancies at 7.8 million a piece - costliest tank in the world which will be a dud in battle.

Army asked for a tank not an elephant.
You're an idiot beyond common belief!!
You lack of basic commonsense is as astonishing as it is hurtful!
If the top tanks in the world (with similar feature set) are in the 62-65 ton range, then how do you expect a first time tank maker to magically supersede??
Arjun is indeed one of the best in its class of tanks!

When US (that actually has to ship or airlift the tanks) can deploy it all over the world, surely IA too can! The initial rona-dona of IA's tactical bridges not supporting the weight was solved quite easily - by designing stronger bridges! No nutjob discards an assault rifle because the strap available is too weak - just get a stronger strap!!!!
 

samsaptaka

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costliest tank in the world which will be a dud in battle.
This is patently FALSE. In the Army's own trials Arjun outgunned and out performed T90. So on what basis are you saying it will be a dud in battle. Agree that it may be little overweight but that doesn't mean its a dud in battle !
 

Bleh

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You're an idiot beyond common belief!!
You lack of basic commonsense is as astonishing as it is hurtful!
If the top tanks in the world (with similar feature set) are in the 62-65 ton range, then how do you expect a first time tank maker to magically supersede??
Arjun is indeed one of the best in its class of tanks!

When US (that actually has to ship or airlift the tanks) can deploy it all over the world, surely IA too can! The initial rona-dona of IA's tactical bridges not supporting the weight was solved quite easily - by designing stronger bridges! No nutjob discards an assault rifle because the strap available is too weak - just get a stronger strap!!!!
What @Bhadra is saying is pretty clear. If it was not possible, they could have just refused like some army officers hoped they would...

Had DRDO slapped a powerful engine on an uparmoured T-55 platform & threw it at them, we'd have hundreds of indigenous tanks.
It too would be as shitty as T-90s & ammo rack would blow into fireballs... but hey, they'd be below 60tons.

 
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Enquirer

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What @Bhadra is saying is pretty clear... If it was not possible, they could have just refused.

Had DRDO slapped a powerful engine on an uparmoured T-55 platform & threw it at them, we'd have hundreds of indigenous tanks.
It too would be as shitty as T-90s & ammo rack would blow into fireballs, but hey..... they'd be below 60tons.
IA had the habit of picking the best features from a myriad brochures and calling it PSQRs - because IA didn't have inhouse capability to design or understand design.....forget projecting facts based long term need!

Only when someone has developed multiple variants of a product over several decades can they accurately project what is feasible and what isn't!
Given that Arjun was the first design attempt by CVRDE, they did a fantastic job. Unable to bend laws of physics and unable to defy gravity they ended up with the most optimal product that science would permit with the technology of the day - which is vouched by similar weight for similar features by top class tank design companies in the world.

The entire episode only reveals, if any, the absolute stupidity and lack of knowledge by IA. Sure, DRDO should/could have educated them early on....but the fact is IA acted as an over privileged brat.....there's no other way to put it.

IA specifically asked for a 4-man-crew....and also stipulated extraordinary crew-comfort in terms of space etc.....obviously a bigger tank will create bigger weight!!! For the sake of clarity....T90 is a 3-man crew tank!
 

Bhadra

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If someone says something SIX times over TWO different posts, then it's not called a typo! It just reveals lack of knowledge!!!
And then trying to spin it as typo is completely DISHONEST.
Your dishonestly was very obvious when you quoted stuff out of context (about BFSR-MR) and hid the link to the article as it disproved your notion!
Tujhe discussion karna hai ya meri soongega ?
 

Enquirer

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Four men crew is prefered option in half of the tanks and Armies the world over.
The reason are :

* Distribution of duties.
* Sense of Isolation.
* Requirement of ground guidence in constricted terrain and when close to own troop.
* Mainatainance
* Recovery - particularly recovery and repairs of tracks in field.
In a country like India where manpower is no constraint four man crew is preferred.

By the way there is a seperate thread for Arjun.
Where ever you copied that from........it is the first sensible thing you said in a long while..............
 

Bhadra

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IA had the habit of picking the best features from a myriad brochures and calling it PSQRs - because IA didn't have inhouse capability to design or understand design.....forget projecting facts based long term need!

Only when someone has developed multiple variants of a product over several decades can they accurately project what is feasible and what isn't!
Given that Arjun was the first design attempt by CVRDE, they did a fantastic job. Unable to bend laws of physics and unable to defy gravity they ended up with the most optimal product that science would permit with the technology of the day - which is vouched by similar weight for similar features by top class tank design companies in the world.

The entire episode only reveals, if any, the absolute stupidity and lack of knowledge by IA. Sure, DRDO should/could have educated them early on....but the fact is IA acted as an over privileged brat.....there's no other way to put it.

IA specifically asked for a 4-man-crew....and also stipulated extraordinary crew-comfort in terms of space etc.....obviously a bigger tank will create bigger weight!!! For the sake of clarity....T90 is a 3-man crew tank!
In your irresticeable itch on your posterior, you have started casting aspiration on Indian Army!

That speaks volumes about your itch.

There is a seperate thread on Arjun go and get laid there.
 

Bhadra

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@Sandeep0159 Please keep out. This shit filled pond .... the way I see it is a rebellion of underwold typ who get the voice here only to spoil the things further...

Otherwise who is worried about their orders, their product, their mal. People at the deciding end keep thousand of such scientist in their stomach and do not allow them to move ...

They are wise people at decision making end and system runs on them... not on this filth.
 

Blood+

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@Sandeep0159 Please keep out. This shit filled pond ....
Why don't you just shut the fuck up and let the boy decide for himself, huh??!!
the way I see it is a rebellion of underwold typ who get the voice here only to spoil the things further...
Ahh...and here comes the conspiracy theory.
Otherwise who is worried about their orders, their product, their mal. People at the deciding end keep thousand of such scientist in their stomach and do not allow them to move ...

They are wise people and system runs on them...
Yeah, we know how wise those fellows at the deciding end are.
 

Bhadra

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Guess who brought Arjun here into this thread in the first place??!!
Read the thread you Charlie !

I do, just like the person next to me.

It's a matter of principle. I was taught to deal with my shit by myself and that's one teaching I'm not willing to let go off.

Nope, I'm right where I'm supposed to be!!You' on the other hand my friend, is just a tinsy bit too late.
your hygiene factor in personality traits is shitty man. Go check up with a psychiatrist.
Enough for the day or wish to continue ??
 

Blood+

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Read the thread you Charlie !
Really??!!Newsflash - Vietnam's over.....been that way for a long fucking time, grandpa!!

your hygiene factor in personality traits is shitty man. Go check up with a psychiatrist.
Wow!!The way you figured that out from behind the screen....just fabulous, speaks volumes of your experience.Lemme guess - you were a janitor in the army??
Enough for the day or wish to continue ??
I thought it's night in our country.
 

Bhadra

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You misunderstood... Orginal post edited.
There was no proper discussion. Open Arjun thread and you will see in 2015 I ahd disused the issue over 100 pages discussion on Armata Vs Arjun and IA RFP for future tanks,.

You don't get XUV for the price of TATA Sumo, but wholeheartedly agreed on the first point.
Right. ATAGS is not SUV and ATHOS is not Tata Sumo. Is It ?
you do get two T-90 for the price of one Arjun !

Right from the '90s they should have just slapped on armour modules to T-55, made upgraded copies of Bofors & M-46 etc... something that wouldn't take much effort. The crappiest crap they ever made, actually got widely adopted into Indian Army!!!

Since 1980s, when I was in Institute of Armament and technology, I ahve been hearing of all bull shit - NAG, Modern Tank, Modern Guns, electronic fuzes, then FINSAS,- what not and what not.

It took Indian Army 30 years to convince DRDO / OFB that there were problems with INSAS but they needed Nepalese, Bangladesh and Sri Lanka Armies to throw their INSAS on their faces.
Indian Army in particular has suffered tremendously due to DRDO / OFB they being their major suppliers.

Otherwise they're just kidding themselves with actual R&D, because a few officers in the army will invariably change requirements to suit their party.
Armament technologies and nature of warfare has been changing at a very vast pace. So what army requires today may not be vaild five years hence. GSQR are bound to change with changing technology and needs of warfare. Any one who does not understand that has no business to be in DRDO or OFB.

And yes.. Indian Army doesn't owe them orders, so everyone might as well stop pretending & downscale Arjun, ATAGS to export-worthy cheaper versions, like China does.
Tejas competing in RMAF tender is actually India first proper try ever.
Export it who has stopped anyone. RMAF want tejas for free so give it to them. IAF will be more than happy. One Indian company sells best of Basmati rice to Iran. No one has stopped them.
 

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