Arjun Main Battle Tank (MBT)

[ersakthivel]

Can you please make a drawing of what you think the turret looks like from the top it doesn't have to be accurate just general idea. I want to know because I think we are arguing about two different things.
STGN

I have posted many times that what i meant by turret width includes storage boxes.

The first storage box has been converted to armor in operational regiments from 2008 is my estimate from photos,

there are many photos in ARJUN VS t-90 THREAD IN THIS FORUM TO PROVE THIS.

My claim is there is 3.2 meter width available on the turret
and space for side composite armor cavity can me more than 500 mm if desired by IA.

How much of it is storage box and how much of it is armor is not my issue.
If the IA wants it can have close to 500 mm thick composite armor on the sides if the storage box is replaced with composite armor.



How much of it is composite armor now is classified.i have no issues with people claiming side turret thickness of 60 mm or 50 mm as it is simply not acceptable.

 

[Dejawolf]

I have posted many times that what i meant by turret width includes storage boxes.

The first storage box has been converted to armor in operational regiments from 2008 is my estimate from photos,


there are many photos in ARJUN VS t-90 THREAD IN THIS FORUM TO PROVE THIS.

here's an image that proves otherwise.

that's the COAPS commanders panoramic sight, the one intended for the Arjun mk.2
and that tank fitted with COAPS still doesn't have composite armour instead of storage boxes.
as for composites.. yes the storage boxes could be swapped with composite armour, but it hasn't been done. doing so would also increase weight and reduce mobility. arjun without extra armour on turret sides is already 58.5 tons,

 

[ersakthivel]

here's an image that proves otherwise.

that's the COAPS commanders panoramic sight, the one intended for the Arjun mk.2
and that tank fitted with COAPS still doesn't have composite armour instead of storage boxes.
as for composites.. yes the storage boxes could be swapped with composite armour, but it hasn't been done. doing so would also increase weight and reduce mobility. arjun without extra armour on turret sides is already 58.5 tons,

Well, you can go to arjun vs T-90 thread in theis forum and get your doubts cleared.

From the old 40 ton prototype above ,

to the discarded light tank ex style turret prototype below ,

to the current 58 ton,2008 production tank photos posted below ,

a lot of different models go by the same name ARJUN.

Infact whatever prototype model the CVRDE developed till today is always called ARJUN.

And nobody is certain in whether the storage box is replaced with the composite armor or not.But from the photos it seems that from 2008 onwards at least the latches and locks in the place of what used to be first storage box is not there.

And in mk-2 test beds of ARJUN mk-1 models it has been explicitly mentioned that the sides are strengthened with composite armor.But the turret width remains the same.

So replacing a 2feet x3feet size storage box on both the sides of the ARJUn turret won't increase weight by tons is my estimate,
So the whole argument of whether the side turret is 50-60 mm thick or 500 to 600 mm thick is irrelevant as it is already been stated by CVRDE that mk-2 is going to have composite armor kanchan modules on the sides.

And all mk-1s in operation can have their first storage boxreplaced by composite armor for turret side still TC's seat is not a hugely weight increasing tough R and D challenge especially all production models from 2008 seems not to have the first storage boxes,

 

[Dejawolf]

And all mk-1s in operation can have their first storage boxreplaced by composite armor for turret side still TC's seat is not a hugely weight increasing tough R and D challenge especially all production models from 2008 seems not to have the first storage boxes,

and what is this tank? it's got that "armor" box on the left, but on the right there's only stowage boxes..
why would DRDO only put armour on one side only? my guess is that it's a water container, or perhaps a fuel container(maybe for APU)

furthermore:

on the front hull of the arjun in this picture you can see the bridge classification number on the front hull.
60, which means this arjun is close to 60 tons. and it has the old stowage boxes. on the 42.5 ton leopard 1A5 in the second picture, the bridge classification is 45 tons.

 

[Dejawolf]

another one showing bridge classification of indian T-72 as 45

 

[ersakthivel]

and what is this tank? it's got that "armor" box on the left, but on the right there's only stowage boxes..
why would DRDO only put armour on one side only? my guess is that it's a water container, or perhaps a fuel container(maybe for APU)

furthermore:

on the front hull of the arjun in this picture you can see the bridge classification number on the front hull.
60, which means this arjun is close to 60 tons. and it has the old stowage boxes. on the 42.5 ton leopard 1A5 in the second picture, the bridge classification is 45 tons.

I don't want to comment upon things without any evidence based upon mere guess work,

In mk-2 (i.e converted mk-1 testbeds for validation )these water containers or fuel containers (which is your guess) have been converted to KANCHAN armor modules is what is already posted in this thread.

So this 2x3 ft extra composite armor conversion on existing mk-1s (provided they are fuel or water containers as per your guess only )won't be a deep R&D project is my guess.

And the one in picture below is also called ARJUN,

Also please note there is more than 600 mm space besides the Tc's seat edge on ARJUN turret, leave 100 mm for elbow room type space(from the photo below) and leave another 200 mm for so called storage box , still there is more than 300 mm space that has no explanation is my estimate.

 

[Dejawolf]

I don't want to comment upon things without any evidence based upon mere guess work,

And your statement that it's armor is not guesswork?

and which article states that arjun mk.2 has received composite armour on the side turret?

 

[ersakthivel]

And your statement that it's armor is not guesswork?

and which article states that arjun mk.2 has received composite armour on the side turret?

which article says it is a water tank or fuel tank?

note there is more than 600 mm space besides the Tc's seat edge on ARJUN turret, leave 100 mm for elbow room type space(from the photo below)

and leave another 200 mm for so called storage box or fuel tank or water tank (whichever you choose!!!) ,

provided they are not upgraded with armor as per my guess,

still there is more than 300 mm space that has no explanation from you is my estimate.

So there is no evidence to believe 60 mm thickness side turret armor based upon your now proven false 3D models.

And considering the right hand of Tc that is behind the main sight there is no evidence for your claim of 450 mm LOS thickness armor module behind the main sight based on those same false 3D models either,

This is the primary reason for which we are discussing the arjun turret width.

 

[Dejawolf]

which article says it is a water tank or fuel tank?

which article says it is armour?
and again, why would DRDO put the "armour" on only one side?

 

[Dejawolf]

note there is more than 600 mm space besides the Tc's seat edge on ARJUN turret, leave 100 mm for elbow room type space(from the photo below)
[/QUOTE]

how did you measure this?

 

[ersakthivel]

how did you measure this?

Ask STGN who gave 3.1 meter width for the turret.

 

[ersakthivel]

which article says it is armour?
and again, why would DRDO put the "armour" on only one side?

I have already posted that a site named military recognition of IA says ARJUN has composite armor all around.

http://www.armyrecognition.com/indi...ons_information_description_intelligence.html

Protection
Arjun has an all-round protection from antitank ammunition achieved by the newly developed Kanchan armour to a degree much higher than available in the present generation tanks.

What are present generation tanks ,

and why the site says ARJUn has much better all round protection from anti tank ammunition,

while just a few retards doubting it forever with next to nothing proof,

Are you guys saying this all around protection is achieved by storage box, fuel tank or water tank on the turret?
?

I am sure you guys are no stranger to the site.from where you got many of old photos of ARJUNs at varying level of development and the schema drawing without dimension.

Low ground pressure, high power-to-weight ratio, and adoption of new design concepts in engine, transmission, suspension and running gear make MBT Arjun a highly mobile and agile weapon platform. The remarkable mobility characteristics of Arjun, which also add to its protection,are the result of:
- High performance diesel engine.
- Robust and effective automatic transmission system.
- High flexible hydro-pneumatic suspension.
- Optimized running gear with high shock energy absorption capability.

it says so much more , if I post all of them I will be accused of spewing bile by few hopeless guys posting foot measurement photo , head measurement photo, palm measurement photo, wrist measurement photo here,.

Only stuff they did not measure on their body is ............. I just don't want to write it here,

I fear they will post photos of that too some time soon.

You can put some eye drops and look carefully at the picture above to find out whether both sides of the ARJUN 2008 production model look the same or not with the same number of 4 padlocks?

Notice anything different between the photo above and below,

if you can't,


The no of locks on in the photo above is 4,

The no of storage box on the pic above is ---2,

The no of storage box on pic below is ----3.

The no of locks on side in the photo above is 3 and 7,

.

[/B].

 

[ersakthivel]

EDIT--- The no of locks on side in the photo above is 3 and 7,

the above statement is wrong in the post -4435 above,

The no of locks on side in the photo below is 7, is the correct statement.



.

.

 

[STGN]

Don't you realise that the 3.1 is not besides the commander but behind him and the turret slopes inwards going forward so there is not 3.1 besides the commander.

STGN

 

[Damian]

I have already posted that a site named military recognition of IA says ARJUN has composite armor all around.

http://www.armyrecognition.com/india...elligence.html
Protection
Arjun has an all-round protection from antitank ammunition achieved by the newly developed Kanchan armour to a degree much higher than available in the present generation tanks.
What are present generation tanks ,

and why the site says ARJUn has much better all round protection from anti tank ammunition,

while just a few retards doubting it forever with next to nothing proof,

Are you guys saying this all around protection is achieved by storage box, fuel tank or water tank on the turret?
?

I am sure you guys are no stranger to the site.from where you got many of old photos of ARJUNs at varying level of development and the schema drawing without dimension.

First this statement about all around protection is simple advertisement. It is just immposible to place Kanchan all around because all composite armors need a lot of space, placing such armor all around would make tank incredibly big and heavy.

Another thing is that such statement is false in it's basics, because Kanchan developers never tested all modern MBT's and their protection, this further gives a hint that statement is simple advertisement, and only fools believe in it.

 

[Dejawolf]

Ask STGN who gave 3.1 meter width for the turret.

no, tell me how you came to the 600mm space besides TC's seat edge, and all your other numbers.

 

[Dejawolf]

EDIT--- The no of locks on side in the photo above is 3 and 7,

the above statement is wrong in the post -4435 above,

The no of locks on side in the photo below is 7, is the correct statement.

.

i count 4 locks on one box, and on the commanders side it's impossible to tell the number of storage boxes and locks due to the angle.

 

[Dejawolf]

I have already posted that a site named military recognition of IA says ARJUN has composite armor all around.

Arjun Mk-I main battle tank technical data sheet specifications information description intelligence�-�Army Recognition�-�Army Recognition


What are present generation tanks ,

and why the site says ARJUn has much better all round protection from anti tank ammunition,

the article was written before india received the T-90 tanks, and it's talking about the present generation tanks of the indian army.
as for the blurb about allround protection, it doesn't say what types of anti-tank ammunition, nor what generation.

all tanks in the world today sacrifices heavy side armour for higher mobility, there's no tank in the world with side protection equal to the front protection.

 

[Dejawolf]

clearer view of the smoke grenade launcher cable, and connection point

also shows a hose coming from the so-called "addon armor" now why would there be a hose going from the "addon armour", unless there's liquids inside...

 

[ersakthivel]

Don't you realise that the 3.1 is not besides the commander but behind him and the turret slopes inwards going forward so there is not 3.1 besides the commander.

STGN

look at the sides of all the tanks which belong to the 2006 production lot ,

where is the slope on turret? As far as I can see sides seem straight only,with no 40 cm worth slope anywhere as some people argue here.

The frontal armor blck wedges up and down slightly , but no side turret slope is visible.

Also note, we are talking about the availability of space for composite armor cavity besides the crew hatch of TC here,

Before him there are heavy armor panels of the frontal armor block,

and behind him there is no crew compartment ,

and there is no way you can judge the side armor from photos for the turret side portion behind him,.