Another Cheap Chinese Copy

ZOOM

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Of course China is a threat to India when they have an alliance with Pakistan. If lasting peace came to India and Pakistan, China would not be nearly as bold crossing borders.

The export of Chinese arms to Pakistan, Burma, Bangladesh are hardly a threat to India. The real threat is the export of Amerikan arms to Pakistan.
Yes, now its Amerikan arms to Pakistan are more dangerous to India, and not Chinese arms, what a rehotric.

Your Naval Chief wouldn't say that PLAN is three times stronger than IN b/c it would be a lie. The Indian Navy has more blue water capability than PLAN any day of the week. If an Indian naval taskforce met up with a Chinese one away from land bases, the Sino fleet would be at the bottom of the ocean. India has and will continue to have a better fleet than China for a long time. While PLAN deploys its first carrier, IN will have several.
He He He He he, I cannot stop from laughing. I never see a kind of person who himself lying and making mockery of himself. Just go through below link which may enable you to distinguish between your wisdom and stupidity.


India no match for China, says Navy chief- Hindustan Times


If you think PLAN is better than the IN by three times, or even force on force, you have alot to learn about the application of military power. My sound principles about Chinese inadequacies are based on facts that show the weaknesses they are not willing to admit. PLA is not an open and transparent organisation like Indian MoD. They are affraid to show their weakness or lose the respect they think they deserve.
There are many things in life about which many nations including individual themselves aren't open about, so it doesn't make them a sore loser. You need to know this reality
 

p2prada

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He He He He he, I cannot stop from laughing. I never see a kind of person who himself lying and making mockery of himself. Just go through below link which may enable you to distinguish between your wisdom and stupidity.


India no match for China, says Navy chief- Hindustan Times
Ancient tactic used by all democratic military leaders around the world. Make it look like the enemy is big and the funding will come home. Scare the public and the military gets its funding. Even the ACM said that IAF will be weakest in another 10 years...when its the complete opposite. His remarks fast tracked the MRCA process.

IN is making the case for more nuclear submarines and fast tracking the Gorshkov deal. IN wants a lot of SSNs and not SSBNs and there is no way they will get it without fear mongering.

PLAN has 3 times the capacity in tonnage. But, our Blue water capabilities are superior to PLAN. Bring their ships and our ships to neutral waters and we will have the advantage. IN cannot compare force by force to PLAN. But we can outmatch them when it comes to capability.
 

p2prada

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If you continued and clicked "J-10 History", it should say, "Chengdu had produced seven prototypes for flight testing. The first five were powered by an indigenous WS-10 engine while the last two were powered by a Russian-made AL-31F engine and also featured some modifications in avionics"
That proves WS-10 was tested before Al-31 regardless of the WP-15. I will look into the WP-15 stuff, because this thing is ridiculous.
It does not prove anything. I can give it to you in writing that there has been no successful tests of the WS-10 on the J-10. Equipping 5 J-10s with WS-10 does not mean they were flying.

And why is the WP-15 ridiculous? It was a pretty good decision before the Russians stepped in.

How does it stop us from having the infrastructure for electric trains?
Trains need a lot of electricity. If your powerplants are gone, then no energy. So, no trains.

When the shipping are stopped, we retain the means of production don't we?
When shipping is stopped, you will lose 50% of your oil supply. Tell me how will you continue production with no oil?

When your infrastructure is busted, your come back will take longer.
Our industrial infrastructure is too far away to be targeted. It will not even be a tactical target for your airforce. If you had the capability you would rather bomb our capital than hit our industries. There is also no worthwhile target in NE India.

Our Su-30s can reach the Chengdu military region quite easily from Assam.

We can even hit some of your dams.

Not too far. All your Su-30s are based in the Chengdu military region. Hitting our dams in the NE will affect Bangladesh more than us.......so expect a lot of political and diplomatic flak from other countries.

The hyperinflation was due to the civil war rather than the WW2. KMT was trying to fund its war effort in a desparate attemt to stop the PLA. You said a China-India war would be over in less than 6 months. It is clearly not going to be an all out war. In addition the communist controlled regions experienced none of this hyperinflation.
The hyperinflation started after the Japanese invasion.

Don't just say "high". What were the inflation rates in countries other than Weimar Republic after WW1. What was the US inflation rate after WW2.
I don't have the time to look into rates. You do it if you have the time for it.

But, when we were hit with the recession last year. What was the inflation rate in your country. In India it was 0%. But, then why the recession? It was because of the credit crunch. After WW1, the case was similar. After WW2, the US lent money to a lot of countries and had to write off most of the loans because the other countries could not afford to give back the money. They just had good production and enough money to only have inflation. They could also trade with every country in the world to "save" themselves and the world. The very reason why the US became a superpower.

Only this time China is facing a foreign enemy.
Japan, WW2.

The main cause of the Great Depression was the lack of regulation. And China won't be lending to countries that are broke this time.
There is no question of China lending money. The Great depression will not happen in case of India and China. Only inflation.

How will you set about stopping western tankers?
If we get the balls to blow them up, then Hell yeah! :D

Warn all countries to avoid the Indian Ocean route if headed for China. Too dangerous. And they will heed.

As I have said many time, it won't be disastrous, only a drop in living standards.
Yes. It will not be disastrous. But, will lead to dissent in your cities, if electricity and food supply is hampered.

Edit: Russia indeed had lots of natural resources, alas they had to rebuild after WW2 with American capital, hence, they were helped.
The Russians had a lot of manpower and capital to take care of themselves after the war. They wouldn't have been a superpower had it been otherwise.
 

Vladimir79

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Yes, now its Amerikan arms to Pakistan are more dangerous to India, and not Chinese arms, what a rehotric.

B/c Amerikan weapons are far more advanced than Chinese arms... duh.


He He He He he, I cannot stop from laughing. I never see a kind of person who himself lying and making mockery of himself. Just go through below link which may enable you to distinguish between your wisdom and stupidity.
Doesn't say anything about Navy does it? Sticking Viraat or Gorshkov in the middle of an ocean against a PLAN fleet would doom it. Carriers make all the difference.


There are many things in life about which many nations including individual themselves aren't open about, so it doesn't make them a sore loser. You need to know this reality.
Did you ever grown up in a communist country? Lack of transparency is used to hide inadequacies in the system... same holds true for China as it did during the CCCP. You need to know this reality.
 

nitesh

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I never talk about Jf-17's, if you go through my post, I never taken even a name of this particuler fighter jet. But according to him, Chinese are still using 30 years old radar in their entire fighter jet inventory. If this is true, then tell me why does J-10s and Su-27's are considered 4th generation fighter jets.
Point well taken Zoom, His point is solely dependent on why the radars are not accpeted by the buyer countries and using old radars. SU 27 is 4th gen fighters. I think even u don't have any doubts about that. Regarding J 10 well we know the history lot of this is mentioned in this thread.
 

nitesh

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vladimir sir, why you are not considering the open proliferation of China's nuclear weapons and there delivery system? I think Zoom is pointing towards that
 

Vladimir79

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vladimir sir, why you are not considering the open proliferation of China's nuclear weapons and there delivery system? I think Zoom is pointing towards that
The original argument was IN v PLAN. China signed the NPT so they can't use nukes until they are nuked. If they do then signers of NPT would be obligated to nuke China which include Russian, US, French, and British arsenals which are far more vast than Chinese. Even discounting NPT agreement, 200+ low yield warheads isn't enough to wipe out Indian military.
 

hbogyt

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It does not prove anything. I can give it to you in writing that there has been no successful tests of the WS-10 on the J-10. Equipping 5 J-10s with WS-10 does not mean they were flying.

And why is the WP-15 ridiculous? It was a pretty good decision before the Russians stepped in.



Trains need a lot of electricity. If your powerplants are gone, then no energy. So, no trains.



When shipping is stopped, you will lose 50% of your oil supply. Tell me how will you continue production with no oil?



Our industrial infrastructure is too far away to be targeted. It will not even be a tactical target for your airforce. If you had the capability you would rather bomb our capital than hit our industries. There is also no worthwhile target in NE India.

Our Su-30s can reach the Chengdu military region quite easily from Assam.

We can even hit some of your dams.

Not too far. All your Su-30s are based in the Chengdu military region. Hitting our dams in the NE will affect Bangladesh more than us.......so expect a lot of political and diplomatic flak from other countries.



The hyperinflation started after the Japanese invasion.



I don't have the time to look into rates. You do it if you have the time for it.

But, when we were hit with the recession last year. What was the inflation rate in your country. In India it was 0%. But, then why the recession? It was because of the credit crunch. After WW1, the case was similar. After WW2, the US lent money to a lot of countries and had to write off most of the loans because the other countries could not afford to give back the money. They just had good production and enough money to only have inflation. They could also trade with every country in the world to "save" themselves and the world. The very reason why the US became a superpower.



Japan, WW2.



There is no question of China lending money. The Great depression will not happen in case of India and China. Only inflation.



If we get the balls to blow them up, then Hell yeah! :D

Warn all countries to avoid the Indian Ocean route if headed for China. Too dangerous. And they will heed.



Yes. It will not be disastrous. But, will lead to dissent in your cities, if electricity and food supply is hampered.



The Russians had a lot of manpower and capital to take care of themselves after the war. They wouldn't have been a superpower had it been otherwise.
It does prove that WS-10 is not a copy of AL-31 which was what Vladmir was trying to put forth and I rebut. You cut in.

The problem is the power plants WILL be there!

How do you know the Russians will cut off their supply? How are going to stop non-Chinese tankers? Communters will just get less motor travel. Industrial production and transport will not be hampered.

I meant hitting your oil refineries, steel mills, generators and such. We can certainly hit those with our missiles. Your S-30 have not a chance of hitting our industrialed areas. You need to go all the way to the centre-east.


Nonsense, the source you provided clearly stated that the hyperinflation was near the end of the CIVIL war. Japan invaded China in 1937.


You are having a misconception that recession is somehow a result of inflation? Inflation is generally associated with economic boom not recession.
Credit crunch did cause the Great Depression. It could have been avoided by better regulation. No the US became the superpower purely because it was the only major power unscathed by the 2 world wars.

Tell me how does this lead to a credit crunch in China?

They won't heed you. And if you do that, you've already lost the war. The countries whose flag those tankers are flying will make mince meat of Indian navy.

First, neither electricty nor food will be hampered. Second, they'll blame you for it if it did.

No! USSR bought and leased equipment and machinery from America after WW2 to rebuild. Don't argue with the fact.
 

hbogyt

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Just hit 3 Gorges, you will cripple Central China.
This thesis has been debunked long ago. You need a direct hit with a multi-mega tonne nuclear warhead to do that. Anything else won't scrach the paint.
 

p2prada

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The problem is the power plants WILL be there!
Never said, they won't. Just said that the plants will not be supplied.

How do you know the Russians will cut off their supply? How are going to stop non-Chinese tankers? Communters will just get less motor travel. Industrial production and transport will not be hampered.
Russians can stop supply during the war. And sell at a higher price later. Non-Chinese tankers can be warned, blocked, boarded or blown up. We will need more balls in that order. We cannot presume we will not stop non-Chinese tankers Russian supplies are stopped.

I meant hitting your oil refineries, steel mills, generators and such. We can certainly hit those with our missiles.
Too far. Missiles will not be used. We will react with nukes since that is a precautionary measure.

Your S-30 have not a chance of hitting our industrialed areas. You need to go all the way to the centre-east.
Chengdu military region is an industrialized belt. Hitting your dams will do the trick anyways.

Nonsense, the source you provided clearly stated that the hyperinflation was near the end of the CIVIL war. Japan invaded China in 1937.
My bad. Anyways, only means wars, inflation and recession are related.

You are having a misconception that recession is somehow a result of inflation? Inflation is generally associated with economic boom not recession.
Credit crunch did cause the Great Depression. It could have been avoided by better regulation. No the US became the superpower purely because it was the only major power unscathed by the 2 world wars.
Look. Both are bad...high Inflation and recession. Credit management causes recession and low supply of commodities results in inflation. War means spending money. War also results in high inflation in cities, since a lot of the food supply will be directed for the war effort. If wartime rationing is introduced, then it will lead to inflation after the war.

Tell me how does this lead to a credit crunch in China?
If we blow up the 3 Gorges, tell me how much you will need to spend to restore normalcy.

They won't heed you. And if you do that, you've already lost the war. The countries whose flag those tankers are flying will make mince meat of Indian navy.
Travel Advisories from the countries warning China-headed tankers not to take the Indian Ocean route. Expect US Navy to side with Indian Navy during any Anti-China activity. So, which navy will make a mice meat out of which navy.

First, neither electricty nor food will be hampered. Second, they'll blame you for it if it did.
Nobody will blame us for anything. Any India-China war means China is the aggressor and not India. Don't forget we have airbases in Kashmir too. And they can reach your CAR pipelines easily. Cut off fuel supply and fuel in China will be rationed. Rationing of fuel means food is rationed. Power supply will be erratic if trucks and trains(which need fuel to move about) cannot supply in time. You need to remember that electricity cannot be stored. It needs to be used immediately after generation.

No! USSR bought and leased equipment and machinery from America after WW2 to rebuild. Don't argue with the fact.
Every country bought from America after the war including a highly industrialized Japan. SU became hostile only in the 60s. But, that does not mean SU was dependent on the US or their economy was propped up by the US. Buying from a technologically superior country for civilian equipment is only logical. SU was not running around begging for loans.
 

nitesh

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This thesis has been debunked long ago. You need a direct hit with a multi-mega tonne nuclear warhead to do that. Anything else won't scrach the paint.
:rofl: :rofl: multi mega ton explosion! this must be made of something out of this planet
 

Vladimir79

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This thesis has been debunked long ago. You need a direct hit with a multi-mega tonne nuclear warhead to do that. Anything else won't scrach the paint.
The dam was cracking before the resevoir was even full. Something so fragile could not hope to withstand LACMs much less ballistic missiles. Three Brahmos targetted at the right spots would drown 75 million people. No country is so vulnerable to disaster.
 

hit&run

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The dam was cracking before the resevoir was even full. Something so fragile could not hope to withstand LACMs much less ballistic missiles. Three Brahmos targetted at the right spots would drown 75 million people. No country is so vulnerable to disaster.
I totally agree with you, i always wonder why people forget a very simple equation F= m.a
it is the kinetic energy which will generate excessive damage, rest will be left for explosive and accuracy of Brahmos.

Vulnerability is directly proportional to the cube root of displacement. Bigger is more vulnerable and Dams are candidates for excessive damage by cruise missiles like brahmos irrespective ! of warhead used.
 

ZOOM

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Ancient tactic used by all democratic military leaders around the world. Make it look like the enemy is big and the funding will come home. Scare the public and the military gets its funding. Even the ACM said that IAF will be weakest in another 10 years...when its the complete opposite. His remarks fast tracked the MRCA process.
I am not agreed with you. Just because you need a funding, it doesn't mean that you can speak whatever you want. Every defence deal that India is inking with foriegn nation is either mired by the technical delays or Corruption in the form of Bribe, unfortunetly this particuler glitches is completely offsetting the advantage of having a funding. Fact of the matter is that, China is more prominent enough to deploy its weapon system on the frontline. Heck we don't even have a proper infrastructure to do the same.


IN is making the case for more nuclear submarines and fast tracking the Gorshkov deal. IN wants a lot of SSNs and not SSBNs and there is no way they will get it without fear mongering.
True, but even if we manage to bring in enough funding, then only we are highly lacking in technical expertise. Do you know China had launched its first Nucler submarine many decades ago, so it speaks volume about the comperative aspect of both IN and PLAN.


PLAN has 3 times the capacity in tonnage. But, our Blue water capabilities are superior to PLAN. Bring their ships and our ships to neutral waters and we will have the advantage. IN cannot compare force by force to PLAN. But we can outmatch them when it comes to capability.

Are you talking about Neutral waters, they are much in the process of hunting our naval assets in our own ocean.
 

ZOOM

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B/c Amerikan weapons are far more advanced than Chinese arms... duh.
Accepted, but India is not an US which have a superior weapons to counter those Chinese arms.



Doesn't say anything about Navy does it? Sticking Viraat or Gorshkov in the middle of an ocean against a PLAN fleet would doom it. Carriers make all the difference.
Any other scenario which can suit your sensitivity?



Did you ever grown up in a communist country? Lack of transparency is used to hide inadequacies in the system... same holds true for China as it did during the CCCP. You need to know this reality.
Please enough of this cattle class comments. You are simply backing every other generics of yours with some which doesn't even makes sense.
 

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