An emerging India through Pakistani Eyes - threats and counter strategies

[Indx TechStyle]

@OneGrimPilgrim
Though, must have posted way earlier, I was discussing and posting such articpes on two threads, one posted by me,
As India rises, what does it have to lose if it goes to war?
And other by @rockey 71,
National Security to Dictate Pakistan's Future
So, this thread is going to be about a Pakistani strategic PoV about India (strictly) and will have viewpoints, articles, opinions, tweets from journos, Diplomats, strategists, writers across the border.

Kickin off with a few posted earlier.
The India problem

Media Watch: So, you think you’re a tough guy?

Modi’s war

'India’s pursuit of hegemonic policies creating instability in region'

Pakistan neither wants, nor engaged in arms race in S. Asia: envoy

Can the next Pakistani army chief get rid of the anti India lot?
One, two, three

Tension at LoC by Indian forces threat to regional peace: PM

Strategic Weapons in Wrong Hands
Indian 'belligerence' can lead to strategic miscalculation: Pakistan

Will Qamar Javed Bajwa be as hostile as Raheel Sharif to India?

A key ingredient of Modi's policy with Pakistan: Impermanence
The missing Buddhist trick

How National Security Will Dictate Pakistan's Future

The establishment’s dilemma

Invite Trump to Gaddafi Stadium

A united national front

Spies underwater [Factual errors, specially about UNCLOS]

The developing ‘strategic depth’ and ‘full spectrum deterrence’ [This is a funny article.:biggrin2:]

The Indian ‘no’

Old challenge, new approach

 

[Indx TechStyle]

Without wastin time, let's start posting,
Modi’s challenge
December 06, 2016/ 9 Comments

Since his election as the Prime Minister of India, Narendra Modi has posed a serious challenge to Pakistan on multiple fronts with dire implications for Pakistan’s security, economic prosperity, internal political stability, and cultural identity. This is not surprising considering Modi’s RSS background, his commitment to Hindutva, his record of the massacre of the Muslims in Gujrat, and his deep anti-Muslim and anti-Pakistan bias. It is imperative to acquire an accurate understanding of the challenge by Modi in various forms if Pakistan is to overcome it successfully in the struggle for promoting its national interests. Unfortunately, what one sees in Pakistan instead is either the extreme of Indophobia, which rejects the possibility of any constructive and mutually beneficial cooperation with India, or the advice of unlimited and unconditional cooperation with India irrespective of its long-term adverse consequences for Pakistan’s independence and economic well-being that the Indophiles in our country advocate. A balanced and well-nuanced India policy, which would avoid these extremes and chart out a course of action serving the best interests of the country, has remained elusive so far.

India’s over-arching strategic goal is to establish its hegemony in South Asia. It views Pakistan as the biggest obstacle in the realization of this objective as Islamabad is unlikely to kowtow before New Delhi’s diktat in the interest of its own security and economic progress. There is, thus, an inherent and long-term tension between Pakistan and India, which simply cannot be wished away whatever the Indophiles in Pakistan may claim. The situation becomes even more alarming if one adds to this latent tension the negative consequences of the various outstanding disputes, particularly the Kashmir dispute, for Pakistan-India relations. The strains and tensions in Pakistan-India relations, therefore, will remain a norm rather than an unusual phenomenon for a long time to come. The situation will change for the better only when India gives up its hegemonic designs in South Asia and learns to deal with Pakistan on the basis of sovereign equality and mutual respect, and there is visible progress towards the resolution of outstanding disputes. Meanwhile, our policy makers should not remain under any illusions about the prospects of genuine friendship with India.

The current scenario in which India is led by a BJP government headed by Narendra Modi with deep commitment to RSS ideology and Hindutva, is even more threatening for Pakistan’s interests than would be the case under a more liberal and benign governmental set-up in India. Pakistan’s experience in its dealings with India since the assumption of power by Narendra Modi bears out these apprehensions. Besides frequent cases of unprovoked Indian shelling across the LOC and the Working Boundary, India has launched a campaign of destabilising Pakistan internally under the Modi-led government through fomenting terrorism in different parts of Pakistan and supporting the insurgency in Balochistan. The arrest of Kalbhaushan, a serving officer of the Indian navy, in Balochistan on charges of fomenting terrorism in Pakistan as a RAW agent has left no doubt about the Modi government’s nefarious designs concerning Pakistan.

At the same time, we should not rule out totally the possibilities of limited cooperation between Pakistan and India in different fields. There is a strategic imperative of peace between Pakistan and India because of their de facto status as nuclear-weapon states. They also need peace to be able to focus on the gigantic and urgent task of eradicating widespread poverty and accelerating economic growth. It is in their mutual interest to avoid an all-out war and strengthen the climate of peace in South Asia through the adoption of confidence building measures in military and political fields. This would require continuous and unconditional dialogue in which the two countries can discuss all matters of concern to them with the objective of building up mutual trust, minimising the risk of an armed conflict between them, trying to resolve outstanding disputes, and engaging in mutually beneficial cooperation. Such a dialogue is not a favour to be granted by one country to the other. Pakistan should, therefore, simply keep the door of dialogue open so that India can walk through it whenever it is ready to do so.

Modi’s government, true to its colours, has adopted a hardline approach in dealing with Pakistan. This approach is reflected in its efforts to isolate Pakistan internationally on the issue of terrorism and to combine forces with Afghanistan for putting joint pressure on Islamabad as reflected quite vividly at the recent Heart of Asia conference at Amritsar. It is also reflected in the intense shelling across the LOC and the Working Boundary which has been going on for several months in response to alleged acts of “cross-border terrorism” from the Pakistani side. It is doubtful, however, that India, mindful of the dangers of the escalation of a conventional armed conflict to a nuclear war, would try to bring Pakistan down on its knees through a conclusive military defeat. Instead, taking a leaf from the advice given by Kautilya, it would resort to the strategy of indirect approach. Its strategy would accordingly rely primarily on political, economic and cultural means for achieving its strategic goals vis-à-vis Pakistan while keeping it under pressure militarily and internationally. On the political front, it would try to foment instability and dissensions in Pakistan to weaken it internally. On the economic side, it would aim at moving so far ahead of Pakistan in terms of economic growth as to neutralise its capacity to resist India’s hegemonic ambitions. In the cultural sphere, it would make a serious effort to undermine Pakistan’s distinct Islamic identity, thus, questioning the very rationale for the creation of Pakistan. For this purpose, India would use Pakistan’s electronic and print media and the Mumbai film industry.

Pakistan’s response to the challenge posed by the Modi-led India should cover all the aforementioned dimensions. On military side, Pakistan must maintain a credible security deterrent at the lowest level of armed forces and armaments so as not to overburden our economy with the demands of the military sector. Internationally, we must neutralise India’s efforts to isolate us by not allowing any daylight between our declared and operational anti-terrorism policies. On the political front, we should strengthen internal stability and cohesion by building up democratic institutions, giving the various provinces their due share in the state power and resources, combatting religious extremism, uprooting terrorism without any exceptions, reducing inequalities of income and wealth, and ensuring the rule of law in the country. In the economic field, we should try to surpass India in terms of economic growth for eradicating poverty, lowering unemployment, and raising the standard of living of the people. But equally importantly, a high economic growth rate would also help us in strengthening our national security in the long run by providing the resources and technologies required for safeguarding it. Finally, we should pay due attention to the preservation of our distinct Islamic identity in facing the formidable challenge posed by India to our existence as an independent country.

Pakistan needs to adopt a comprehensive approach covering the political, diplomatic, economic, military and cultural dimensions of the statecraft in facing successfully the challenge posed by India. A unidimensional approach emphasising only the military side, which has been our preoccupation so far, will simply not do. The various institutions of the state with the active support of the people of Pakistan at large need to bring together the policy dimensions mentioned above into a coherent whole to constitute an effective grand strategy for foiling India’s evil designs.

Evil Designs!
That's why Pakistani journalists suck.

 

[Indx TechStyle]

Tracking Pakistani Channels sometimes on YouTube, visiting their forums, reading their e papers, the thing I can about the Pakistani PoV about India is a "Hindu India" (almost all political parties here are eager to make us an Islamic hell hole though :biggrin2 vs Muslim Pakistan to spread ideologies.
Furrher,when India wants to emerge as new pole of power to forge the world order, Pakistanis always talk of hegemony in "South Asia"and countering India because they think one day Islam will rule India. Discussed earlier with other members.

Though from Hoodbhoy:
National interest means differently in different countries. For example the post-War American establishment considered the export of American values — particularly free trade — as America’s national interest. Stalin’s Russia and Mao’s China competed to implant their respective brands of communist ideology overseas. On the other hand today’s China is purely pragmatic. So is India. Not being ideological states, they are not mission-driven. They just want to be modern, rich, powerful, and assertive.

 

[OneGrimPilgrim]

nice. keep it up! but very sadly am too choked on time these days to go through articles and forum-content unlike earlier, so will bookmark this for intermittent reading whenever free.

 

[rockey 71]

@OneGrimPilgrim
Though, must have posted way earlier, I was discussing and posting such articpes on two threads, one posted by me,
As India rises, what does it have to lose if it goes to war?
And other by @rockey 71,
National Security to Dictate Pakistan's Future
So, this thread is going to be about a Pakistani strategic PoV about India (strictly) and will have viewpoints, articles, opinions, tweets from journos, Diplomats, strategists, writers across the border.

Kickin off with a few posted earlier.
The India problem

Media Watch: So, you think you’re a tough guy?

Modi’s war

'India’s pursuit of hegemonic policies creating instability in region'

Pakistan neither wants, nor engaged in arms race in S. Asia: envoy

Can the next Pakistani army chief get rid of the anti India lot?
One, two, three

Tension at LoC by Indian forces threat to regional peace: PM

Strategic Weapons in Wrong Hands
Indian 'belligerence' can lead to strategic miscalculation: Pakistan

Will Qamar Javed Bajwa be as hostile as Raheel Sharif to India?

A key ingredient of Modi's policy with Pakistan: Impermanence
The missing Buddhist trick

How National Security Will Dictate Pakistan's Future

The establishment’s dilemma

Invite Trump to Gaddafi Stadium

A united national front

Spies underwater [Factual errors, specially about UNCLOS]

The developing ‘strategic depth’ and ‘full spectrum deterrence’ [This is a funny article.:biggrin2:]

The Indian ‘no’

Old challenge, new approach

1. Posting this because you have specifically sought my comments. For healthy discussion no member should get allergy by the very mention of a nation he/she has been brought up to detest.
2. There really are two Pakistans. One is the state astride the Indus. The other is the ideological Pakistan to which almost all SA Muslims subscribe. This Pakistan is not physical but a pan-Islamic ideology. I shall address the state of Pakistan.
3. Not many in Pakistan will see anything "emerging" about India. They view India disintegrating with all the differences between the Dravidian South and the Brahmin/high cast dominated North. Insurgencies / secessionist conflicts in J&K, the Red Corridor and NE are pointers they would highlight. If India is claiming an economic miracle, it is really the miracle with the big businesses one of whom calls a 27 floor high rise his home. The poor are not getting better. The rate of farmers committing suicide remain high. MMS as PM had stated that the writ of GOI did not cover one-third of geographical space of the nation. Has that changed much? Neither has free India done much to eradicate the horrors of caste-ism.
4. The Indus valley has always acted as the advance position or even base for invaders entering India. That means cultural as well as physical invasion. Exceptions were Alexander who was interdicted by Porus and demoralized enough to go home. And the Khwarizm prince, Alauddin had stopped the invincible Chengiz Khan at the R Indus. Quite often a prince in the valley would invite an invader in.
5. Note that the Afghans are coming up - and quite fast. They have a history of conquests and ruling. So also are the Persians.Mesopotamia / Assyria and Byzantium are the next in a series of depth for Pakistan. Turkey, Iran and Pakistan are already nuclear. I mention this because current political situation aside, these and Afghanistan are Pakistan's natural allies. So are the global Muslims who see Pakistan as the successors to the magnificent Mughals.
6. Traditionally Muslims have been comfortable under military rule or at least the military having a say in the affairs of the nation. For Pakistanis this factor becomes more crucial because they are totally convinced that a weak Pakistan will face immediate invasion by India. Like in most nations, Pakistanis feel their politicians are there to loot, and their patriotism is doubtful.
7. Pakistan will never give up Pakistan. Pakistanis also believe India never reconciled with the 1947 partition.That is why the military gets priority when it comes to budget allocation. Pakistanis are ready for any sacrifices to see their military built up to face India's. At the moment Pakistan has a huge military machine well trained and well led - a far cry from the sorry state in 1971. Citizens take pride in their long military history of conquests. Practically every man posses a personal weapon. Arms license are only theoretical.
8. Pakistanis have not trusted any Indian leader except Bajpay and Jaswant Singh. One was vetoed at Agra by the hawks in Indian establishment and the other's promising political career was terminated by extremists in his party. It may as news to you - but Pakistanis do not have a pathological hatred for India or Hindus. While Indian media is replete with Pakistan bashing, Pakistani media or politicians do not appear to be preoccupied with India.
9. I travel to India and Pakistan often and have good friends in both countries. They are all unconnected with politics and desire peace and good neighborly relations. Again, may I state that you asked me to comment and I have penned by candid views.

 

[IndianHawk]

Pakistans strategic view point is very clear.it is that of utter insecurity.
Two nation theory was based on religious haterd . If there is no hatred among Muslims and Hindus there is no rational for Pakistan to even exist. Thus Pakistan has to nurture and protect this hatred.
It is sine qua non for Pakistan to exist.

It is a state which has lost 4 wars since it's inception and half its territory.
Pakistani did give up on Bangladesh and if push came to shove they will give up on balooch and Sindh just as easily.

Pakistani people and Bangladeshi Muslim are slaves who are product of rape and conversion so it is imperative for them to seek glory into earstwhile Muslim conquests.

We all are aware just how easily Pakistani surrender when the war comes calling.

So this utter insecurity and shame of its own past drive Pakistan to do all this idiotic musings.

And the question of Indias rise if Pakistani can not gauge it they are only proving their stupidity.

Those who think India has more divisions then unity are uneducated morons who only could muster madarsa education.

North South divide
Shiva is worshipped from kedarnath to rameshavaravm and that has been going on centuries before Muhammad was wearing his diaper.

India is a singular cultural entity the filth we collected in middle ages has been mostly thrown out.

 

[Indx TechStyle]

1. Posting this because you have specifically sought my comments. For healthy discussion no member should get allergy by the very mention of a nation he/she has been brought up to detest.

I've no problem with you, just trying to compile all related things on single thread, I even killed my own earlier thread, and if you know my history on this forum, I've been usually doing this.

2. There really are two Pakistans. One is the state astride the Indus. The other is the ideological Pakistan to which almost all SA Muslims subscribe. This Pakistan is not physical but a pan-Islamic ideology. I shall address the state of Pakistan.

Related discussion, done.

3. Not many in Pakistan will see anything "emerging" about India. They view India disintegrating with all the differences between the Dravidian South and the Brahmin/high cast dominated North. Insurgencies / secessionist conflicts in J&K, the Red Corridor and NE are pointers they would highlight.

Same opinion here but experienced some positive folks about India from neighbor in last few weeks.

If India is claiming an economic miracle, it is really the miracle with the big businesses one of whom calls a 27 floor high rise his home. The poor are not getting better. The rate of farmers committing suicide remain high. MMS as PM had stated that the writ of GOI did not cover one-third of geographical space of the nation. Has that changed much?

I can post dozens of reports, reduction in poverty, quality of life index, where to be born index, GDP per capita growth rate, global hunger index, education index, literacy rate, average years of schooling, increased consumption, doubled no. of internet users, shifting of people from first to second and third sectors.

Leave that all alone, India's annual HDI improvement rate's enough to reflect that.

Neither has free India done much to eradicate the horrors of caste-ism.

Caste system isn't that effective in modern generation.
Again just like rape and murder issues, just by hyping in media about these horrors, you can no way cover up the threshold of exploitation of Shias and Ahmedis or killing of Hindus in Bangladesh, blood flowing through the streets and thousands leaving from their respective countries every year to take refuge in India, clarifies everything.

4. The Indus valley has always acted as the advance position or even base for invaders entering India. That means cultural as well as physical invasion. Exceptions were Alexander who was interdicted by Porus and demoralized enough to go home. And the Khwarizm prince, Alauddin had stopped the invincible Chengiz Khan at the R Indus. Quite often a prince in the valley would invite an invader in.

Still it fails to argue the main point,

Pakistanis are claiming to be descandants of Indus Valley Civilization, not residents but AFAIK, Pakistan was created on the base of Islamic Ideology of unifying all Indian (you call "South Asian") Muslims.

Case is different that this ideology has been proved bluff already back in 47 and later in 1971.

5. I mention this because current political situation aside, these and Afghanistan are Pakistan's natural allies. So are the global Muslims who see Pakistan as the successors to the magnificent Mughals.

I know you won't belive me if I say there's nothing "magnificent" about Mughals, nor Islamic world gives a bloody damn about that.
SAUDI KING REQUESTS INDIAN & PAKISTANI MUSLIMS TO STOP PRETENDING TO BE ARABS
It's not only Indian and Pakistani but all South Asian (includes Bangladesh) Muslims who are looked down. Because they them as converts.
We Indians on DFI, have been reminding Pakistanis and Bangladeshis are mere converted Indians brainwashed by Wahabi-Salafi Terrorist organizations funded by Saudis.
And now for nuclear remark, if you are thinking that countries like Turkey, Iran or Pakistan [Though, I will agree to Turkey to some extent ] to change world order in "Islamic" interests, please don't. Just one thing, "THE NUCLEAR" can't provide you political power to rule the world.
Iraq also had a nuclear program but without foreign umbrella, so further destabilized. Only difference between Iraq and Pak is that Pak has umbrella of China.

Pakistan is a country with an insignificant small economy, size, military forces and nearly no political power against the countries, messing with whom it has dared.

All major forces have forged their all aspects for full spectrum global approach, economic, military, research, diplomatic relations.
And that's why Pakistan's "Natural Ally" Afghanistansince decades suddenly switches towards India, Iran already being on India's side and now Arabian countries becoming "strategic partners" (an abbreviation) of India one by one.

(Though, BD will continue to be the pride of India's great Islamic empire, the first one.:biggrin2
Don't worry.

6. Traditionally Muslims have been comfortable under military rule or at least the military having a say in the affairs of the nation.

Factually incorrect.

7. Pakistan will never give up Pakistan. Pakistanis also believe India never reconciled with the 1947 partition.

Half gone (where you do live ), half left which won't be last long.

. Pakistanis have not trusted any Indian leader except Bajpay and Jaswant Singh. One was vetoed at Agra by the hawks in Indian establishment and the other's promising political career was terminated by extremists in his party. It may as news to you - but Pakistanis do not have a pathological hatred for India or Hindus. While Indian media is replete with Pakistan bashing, Pakistani media or politicians do not appear to be preoccupied with India.

Oye hello, everyone has to retire some day. You want them to work at these ages?
For Indian media, they bash "everything".

While Indian media is replete with Pakistan bashing, Pakistani media or politicians do not appear to be preoccupied with India.

You sure of what you're speaking? This thread will prove half of your point wrong, for rest half, you can subscribe to any major Pakistani media channel.
Indian media dances for half or an hour for once and then, moves to other topic something like Kejriwal, Akhilesh, Japanese trains or Chinese intrusions (famous for sensational reporting, I agree), Pakistanis are one to run multiple serious debates everyday, every week.
I can get you some.

9. I travel to India and Pakistan often and have good friends in both countries. They are all unconnected with politics and desire peace and good neighborly relations.

I don't know about Bangladeshis but I like other fellows myself try to keep away from politics whenever meet a foreigner.

And if you will be standing in front of me to ask that if I want a war, I will say no even if I want to nuke and wipe out your country.:biggrin2:

Further, Pakistanis and Bangladeshis (specially Pakistanis) are hard to be trusted in India. You never know if anyone of them is from JuD or a Jamaati with a bomb came here for a Mumbai type attack.

 

[porky_kicker]

Same opinion here but experienced some positive folks about India from neighbor in last few weeks.

just a opinion

never let ur opinion based on personal interactions influence ur opinion based on collective interaction (aka national consensus popular opinion / public opinion )
[this holds true for issues relating to porkies and terrorism only]

views derived from few personal interactions dont translate to reality on a bigger scale (national level/ bigger scale)

this is how apologists , sickularist , leftist , defeatist r born/made jho khud be marenge aur dushro ko bhi marwayenge

and this is how ISI operates/recruits sympathizers initially sending over people who pretend to be lots of thing like forward looking aman ki asha type .i hope u know the drill.

and then access and find their vulnerability and do the needful to make them their puppets

i / we will understand though if u could not resist the charms of a sexy porky lady :biggrin2:
it is forgivable if u make her a double agent :biggrin2:
or better still get her converted to Hinduism :biggrin2:

 

[Indx TechStyle]

i / we will understand though if u could not resist the charms of a sexy porky lady :biggrin2:
it is forgivable if u make her a double agent

Yes, it's too from a beautiful paki lady.:biggrin2:
She is first female string theorist from Pakistan.
Unfortunately, we don’t figure anywhere on the world stage in terms of research in science at the moment.
The first step to promote science in Pakistan is to have a culture that values research. If you don’t inculcate in your PhD’s the value of research, they will never be able to produce new knowledge.
Ten years ago, there were only four string theorists from Pakistan. None of them are in Pakistan anymore. Initially, the idea was that we would start doing theoretical physics out from here because it required next to no financial input. You didn’t need labs. All you required was a laptop and that was it. However, that didn’t work out for a number of reasons. Some were political, some environmental or maybe we were too ambitious too early.
There are a lot of examples of countries closer to home that have limited resources and yet they have made their culture much more conducive to scientific research than ours.
Look at India and the Indian Institutes of Technology (IITs); they have phenomenal educational institutes and good centers for research, especially in the field of string theory.
When I was doing my post-doc in Harvard, there were a lot of Indian Assistant Professors who were on the prestigious tenure track. Some of them left to go back to their home environment and a decade later, they’re still in India. They are publishing their research and their careers and reputations haven’t suffered because India gives them enough of a research atmosphere.
When I moved back to Pakistan, one of my main goals was to try to build more of a regional nexus. You want people to have international exposure but it’s not very practical to send all your students to the US or UK. It’s much more convenient to send them to places that are more culturally accessible, financially feasible and closer to home. My dream was that since there were so many string theorists in India that we could work more closely with them.
That was basically the plan but it didn’t end up happening. There are ways of making these things work only if there is an institutional or political will. It’s also a question of attitude. The most common question that I used to get was “What are you going to do with string theory?” It is disheartening when you are constantly getting questions like that and you have to keep on explaining and justifying yourself.
Politicians only focus on these immediate short term measures because they are only thinking about the next five years. Look at what 40 years of this short term thinking has done for the country. The major structural issues in the health and education sectors are still where they were decades ago.
The same kind of thinking is passed on to the sciences. People tend you ask you “I don’t have clean water. Why are you doing string theory? What will we get from that?” That’s like saying that there are so many problems in the country, you shouldn’t write literature, poetry or prose.
Right now, Pakistan is in a much better position than it was a few years ago. The resources that are available now, including Fulbright scholarships, collaborations with CERN and other liaisons with the international world are incredible. It’s time for people to really start utilizing these opportunities.

 

[porky_kicker]

simple solution for the string theorist porky lady
tell her not to waste time in porkistan since majority of porkies brain power is limited to bomb theory only , tell her to haul her ass to India to get married as a Hindu and do all the string theory she wants to do as a Indian bahu .

u can be the prospective string theory husbano , give it a try :biggrin2:
my ashirvad to u :biggrin2:

off topic do u know hindu philosophy / religion is most at home with these esoteric theories / concepts like string theory , multiverse universe , parallel universe, time travel etc (eg there is a hindu story how a person time traveled and when he returned he was still young but many generations had already passed on earth )

tell her to became a hindu and that surely she will see things in a broader scientific way ,she will be enlightened and the secret will surely be revealed to her scientifically of course
and voila she might even win a Nobel prize . added benefit she gets u for lifetime :biggrin2:


this is what an envegalist or a mullah would have said but using their religious twist . high time you implement it with a Hindu twist ie for betterment of all humanity aka your self

 

[Kshatriya87]

PAKISTAN’S NAVAL TRANSFORMATION: DANGEROUS DELUSIONS, SOARING AMBITIONS

India’s maritime watchers have had much to talk about lately. A few days after it held a bilateral exercise with the People’s Liberation Army-Navy (PLAN) in the Northern Arabian Sea, the Pakistan Navy claimed its “anti-submarine” assets had prevented an Indian submarine from entering Pakistani waters. The military’s public relations wing announced that on November 14, antisubmarine units of the Pakistan Navy detected an Indian submarine close to the Pakistani territorial sea and promptly “drove it away.”The next day, India rejected Pakistan’s claim, terming it a “pack of blatant lies.”Even as New Delhi was coming to grips with the grave accusation, however, the media reported that Islamabad had invited the Chinese navy to join its own ships in securing Gwadar port, presumably against the threat of an Indian attack.

This delirium from Islamabad should not be a surprise. Since September this year, when the Indian Army carried out surgical strikes across the line of control in Kashmir, Pakistan’s naval commanders have been nervous about an Indian naval build-up in the Arabian Sea. In the aftermath of the latest cross border exchange of fire, as the Indian navy embarked on a series of combat exercises on its Western sea-front, -Pakistan has been expecting an escalation in maritime tensions. The Pakistan Navy’s claim of detecting an Indian submarine in Pakistani waters appears to be a manifestation of a deep-seated paranoia over an Indian naval encirclement of Karachi. Since 1971, when Indian missile boats carried out a daring attack on Pakistan’s premier maritime hub, destroying a significant portion of the naval fleet and harbor facilities, Pakistani admirals have feared another assault at their strategic nerve-center. With tensions and tempers running high, Pakistan’s naval headquarters is besieged with anxiety over the prospect of another blockade in its near-seas.

For Islamabad’s maritime analysts, however, raising the bogey of an Indian submarine in Pakistani waters is an effective way of projecting a robust front. Navies know well that the presence of a foreign submarine just outside their territorial waters is par-for-the-course during an operational stand-off with a rival force. India, however, has traditionally eschewed deploying submarines close to the Makran coast in a conscious bid to avoid an inadvertent skirmish, which could potentially spiral into a full-blown conflict. Both during the Kargil conflict (Operation Vijay in1999) and Operation Parakram (2001), it was the Indian surface fleet that laid siege at a considerable distance awayfrom Pakistan’s littoral seas, not submarines. Besides, Pakistan now has a robust multi-tiered coastal defense grid— including shore based radars, coastal missile batteries (YJ-62s), air-reconnaissance (P-3Cs)/ strike aircraft (JF-17s with C-802 missiles),and even a coastal marine force which makes Indian submarine operations in the proximity of the Makran coast, an extremely risky proposition.

India’s maritime thinkers say that the Indian navy has never meant to use its undersea assets to aggressively bait Pakistan’s naval forces. To the contrary, the Indian approach has been confined to posturing in the Arabian Sea in times of political tension, limited to the use of its surface fleet for the purposes of deterrence. Pakistan’s naval commanders, however, realize that the image of an Indian submarine in Pakistani waters can be galvanizing force. It could (and perhaps, to a degree, did), unite the military behind a common objective: forestalling any Indian incursion into Pakistani waters. This is one reason why the Pakistan Navy, as part of its modernization plans, has chosen to emphasize submarine warfare and strategic deterrence. Serving and retired Pakistan Navy officers have in recent years raised the pitch for a stronger submarine force, including a nuclear deterrent at sea. Since October this year, when India operationalized a nuclear triad, reportedly commissioning its first ballistic missile nuclear submarine, the INS Arihant, Pakistan’s maritime analysts are convinced that the strategic equilibrium in the western Indian Ocean has shifted decisively in India’s favor. Mohammad Azam Khan, the main author of the Pakistan’s new maritime strategy even believes that the Arihant has been active in waters close to Pakistan’s coast gathering operational information – an unreasonable claim, given that nuclear missile submarines are rarely ever used for tactical missions such as intelligence collection.

India’s Arihant, however, has become a good excuse for the Pakistan Navy to make a case for its own nuclear missile submarines. Pakistan’s maritime watchers now claim that the navy has been ready for a sea based nuclear weaponever since the establishment of the naval nuclear authority in 2013.

While claims of an Indian submarine near Pakistani waters help in making a stronger case for a nuclear deterrent, Islamabad’s maritime establishment believes that the nautical deficit vis-à-vis India must ultimately be overcome through a strategic compact with China. There is wide-spread consensus in Pakistan that in order to protect its equities in the Western Indian Ocean, the Pakistan Navy must collaborate with China in containing growing Indian maritime influence. China has come to dominate Pakistan’s strategic imagination so much that at the inauguration the China-Pakistan Economic Corridor (CPEC) last week, the stand-out feature was the joint Pakistan Navy-PLAN exercise off the Makran coast. At a time when the Pakistani prime minister and army chief were attending a military drill close to the India-Pakistan border, many saw a joint Pakistan-China naval drill in the Arabian Sea as being deeply symbolic.

Beijing has yet to officially react to media reports of Islamabad’s bid to get a squadron of PLAN warships placed at Gwadar. However, an article in the Chinese state-controlled Global Times said that the benefits of Gwadar Port to the Chinese economy were limited, both on account of inadequate port capacity, as well as the economic and geographical infeasibility of a proposed pipeline to deliver oil and gas to western China. This suggests that even if the PLAN does deploy warships at Gwadar, it would a move aimed solely at assisting Pakistan’s maritime agencies in securing the near-littorals.

Oddly enough, Pakistan’s maritime plans do not figure prominently in New Delhi’s nautical calculus. India’s maritime analysts have a pronounced eastern bias and tend to focus excessively on the Chinese challenge in the Eastern Indian Ocean. While China’s plan to supply the Pakistan Navy with eight S-20 (export version of Type 39 and Type 41) submarines is often a subject of discussion, Indian observers seem surprisingly dispassionate about Pakistan’s naval build-up in Western sub-continental littorals.

New Delhi should be worried though. For one, China may already have begun construction of the first set of submarines for Pakistan, even as the infrastructure for building the remaining four at Karachi Shipyard and Engineering Works (KSEW) is being put in place. Given China’s track record of efficient delivery, these boats will likely enter service during the next decade. Not just on account of their sophisticated sensors and high-tech weaponry, but merely in terms of sheer numbers, the new submarineswould confer the Pakistan Navy with an edge over the Indian navy, tilting the tactical power-balance in favor of Pakistan.

Islamabad’s offer to Beijing for the PLAN to use Pakistan’s naval facilities in Gwadar further alters the strategic equation in the western Indian Ocean. After it opened a logistics base in Djibouti last year, China has been on the lookout for a suitable pretext to expand its naval presence in littoral-South Asia. Piracy off the coast of Somalia provided Beijing with an excuse to send submarines in the Indian Ocean, but the PLAN still wasn’t sure about basing warships in Pakistan. Beijing believed that even while it needs maritime bases in the Indian Ocean to protect its investments and infrastructure projects along the Maritime Silk Route (President Xi Jinping’s grand strategic initiative in the Indo-Pacific), a Chinese naval outpost on the Pakistan coast would be a bridge too far, confirming Indian fears of a Chinese “string of pearls” strategy in the Indian Ocean. Mindful of Indian objections, especially in the wake of the PLAN’s first maritime base in Djibouti, China then politely refused Pakistan’s suggestion. But the CPEC now has handed Beijing the perfect alibi to build a base in Gwadar, further skewing the strategic equilibrium in the regional littorals in China’s favor.

While the China-Pakistan maritime nexus is being proactively shaped by the Pakistan Navy, its wider maritime strategy has escaped scrutiny in New Delhi. Indian analysts believe that the Pakistan Navy still follows a “sea-denial”mode of operations in its near-seas, but there is some evidence to suggest that the operational template has changed overtime.

In recent years, the Pakistan Navy has embarked on an expansion of its maritime operational space. The development of new naval facilities at Ormara, Pasni, and Jiwani has provided the force with viable options for dispersing its assets. Alternate basing facilities away from Karachihave, in fact, acted as catalysts for a more assertive posture in Pakistan’s near-seas. Reports suggest that the ongoing revision of its maritime strategy is meant to introduce an aggressive streak in its naval operations. The presence of a joint Pakistan-China maritime squadron at Gwadar indicates that the Pakistan Navy is planning for a ‘limited sea-control” strategy in its near-littorals. Focused otherwise on the safety of sea lanes and the defense of the sovereign waters, the new maritime strategy is likely to advocate a more assertive posture to repel an Indian offensive.

As things stand, submarine operations and aerial surveillance are likely to constitute the mainstay of Pakistan’s emerging strategy at sea. But the land-attack cruise missiles and heavy torpedoes on the new submarines, as well Chinese catamaran Fast Attack Craft, all suggest the Pakistan Navy might also be developing a template for littoral operations in the Arabian Sea. The recent commissioning of a new VLF transmitter station in Sindh does indicate a shift towards prolonged submarine operations and a sea-control strategy in Pakistan’s near seas.

It is the prospect of a naval nuclear deterrent in Pakistan’s maritime strategy that has the gravest implications for India. In 2013, a sea-based version of the indigenously built nuclear capable Babur – cruise missile was developed for launch from the old Khalid class (Agosta 90B) submarines. With a stated policy of “first-use” of nuclear weapons against India, Pakistan does not really need a sea-based nuclear deterrent. The Pakistan Navy, however, wants strategic parity with India in the Western Indian Ocean. Its rhetoric of “Indian aggression” in Pakistani waters is meant solely to push fora second-strike capability, which Pakistani admirals believe will correct the prevailing strategic imbalance.

The advocacy of a sea-based deterrent also elevates the Pakistan Navy’s stature vis-à-vis the Pakistan Army, which traditionally dominates the security establishment. A sea-based nuclear option also gives senior naval officers greater leverage within the Pakistani security establishment. The Pakistan Navy’s power-driven aspirations, however, do not detract from the futility of what is essentially a risky and costly experiment. The combination of dangerous delusions, soaring ambitions and a fatal nuclear obsession could spark another round of strategic brinkmanship in South Asia, with disastrous consequences for regional security.

 

[Indx TechStyle]

u can be the prospective string theory husbano , give it a try :biggrin2:
my ashirvad to u :biggrin2:

I'm a teacher actually professor, in an institute and teach something which every Pakistani may try to learn, specially suparco.
BTW, the lady's PoV wasn't strange. As anti India is Pakistan's ideological quam, Pakistani scientific community is also leaned towards India that much.

 

[Indx TechStyle]

The Pakistan Navy’s power-driven aspirations

LOL, power driven?
If they had their own aspirations to influence the world, they won't be as weak as they are today.

 

[Mikesingh]

It may as news to you - but Pakistanis do not have a pathological hatred for India or Hindus. While Indian media is replete with Pakistan bashing, Pakistani media or politicians do not appear to be preoccupied with India.

You are way off the mark, friend. You don't seem to have seen Paki discussions on YouTube taken from their TV channels which are replete with India bashing 24X7. In fact there is NO other topic but India. They are a possessed lot. They talk as if they are an emerging economic super power thanks to the CPEC, and India a poor third world country that can never hope to compete with mighty Porkistan and take on their 'mighty' Islamic Army. Never mind if they've lost all wars against India.

They're living in a cocoon of denial. All thanks to their Mullah Brigade and the ISPR propaganda machine which churns out crap 24X7 and these gullible Porks fall for this shit, hook line and sinker.

Porkis are pathological liars and a moronic race. Their brain farts are legendary.

 

[Kshatriya87]

LOL, power driven?
If they had their own aspirations to influence the world, they won't be as weak as they are today.

That's the problem, they are not worried about influencing the world. Each and every one of their decisions are India centric. But we must not look at this lightly. Once the chinese made submarines come, their under water strength will be far better than ours. We need more subs & Poseidons and we need them fast.

 

[Razor]

Not only Pak but also for entire Middle East .....
Islamic countries through Indian Eyes - for peace and stability


Modi wake-up!! give freedom to oppressed balochis and merge pakthunva region into Afghanistan.

Looks like a western map. Kashmir chopped off. Such maps are not allowed on DFI, as it is against indian law.
@Kunal Biswas @tarunraju @sayareakd

 

[sayareakd]

Looks like a western map. Kashmir chopped off. Such maps are not allowed on DFI, as it is against indian law.
@Kunal Biswas @tarunraju @sayareakd

Since Singh cannot afford Rs.100 crores fine, therefore i have modified the posts.

 

[Indx TechStyle]

6 surprises that greet a Pakistani in India

 

[Indx TechStyle]

Please enter a message with at least 30 characters.

 

[Indx TechStyle]

Difficult equation​

Moeed Yusuf

The writer is author of Brokering Peace in Nuclear Environments: US Crisis Management in South Asia (Stanford University Press, 2018).
ANOTHER opportunity to talk has been squandered. In the wake of India’s decision to pull out of foreign minister-level talks at the UNGA, I was struck by the unanimity of views among Pakistani analysts trying to decode India’s move. Virtually all of them linked it to next year’s Indian elections.

In a recent conversation on India-Pakistan issues, I found a group of Pakistani opinion-makers challenging this conventional wisdom. They argued that India is approaching the relationship with Pakistan with a longer time horizon in mind. They pointed out that in Pakistan-India policy fora, they have noticed a shift in the body language of Indian interlocutors. It is far more confident, if not arrogant, and fixated on the country’s upward trajectory. There are regular references to the growing economic and military differential between India and Pakistan and to comparisons with Nepal and Bangladesh when Pakistan is referenced. The mindset doesn’t reflect an India that feels a need to compromise with Pakistan anymore.

While I do not subscribe to this presentation of facts, I accept the bottom line about India’s focus on the growing power imbalance in the region. I have previously explained what the longer game may be premised on: if India can continue growing economically and diverting significant resources to defence while forcing Pakistan to remain wedded to a paradigm that prizes hard security over economic well-being, in a decade or two, the power differential will be so large that the only negotiation possible would be on the stronger party’s terms.

Ties with India must be rejigged.​

They argued that India gains by ignoring Pakistan while blaming Pakistan every time the Kashmir issue goes south. New Delhi agrees to talks every now and then to present itself as the magnanimous big brother but then backtracks by pointing to some incident or the other regarding Kashmir. This is seen as hubris that must be responded to by staying steadfast.

Using their very logic, India’s approach must be construed as one that is designed to force Pakistan to dig in, in turn allowing India to further cement its narrative in the world. When I pointed this out, I was told that India is delusional if it feels it can widen the gap with Pakistan — the conversation quickly shifted to poverty, deprivation, and communal problems in India as reasons why India’s rise is artificial.

Smart policy must be predicated on improving oneself, not on hoping for the opponent’s failure. But in this case, does the view hold up against evidence? There is no denying that India has myriad internal problems that aren’t easily fixable. It’s also true that under the current government there, societal intolerance has come to the fore and an objective analyst cannot but worry about the consequences of the callous way in which New Delhi is handling it. And yet, in country after country, the neo-liberal economic model has proven to have unlimited patience with the plight of the downtrodden as the macroeconomic picture is fixed to register the country on the map of global powerhouses. The model is sustainable.

Pakistan must proactively figure out how it can rejig the deteriorating equation vis-à-vis India. I have been highlighting two aspects of this overhaul.

First, Pakistan needs to continue offering India dialogue and be prepared for serious negotiations on all issues regardless of India’s responses. Precisely because India wants to remain on the good side of the global narrative, it will sooner or later have to acquiesce to talking — which would be good for Pakistan-India relations — or its constant refusal will automatically begin to project Pakistan in a more positive light.

Second, Pakistan needs to reorient its thinking from geo-security to geo-economics. About the only way to develop a genuine Indian stake in Pakistan’s stability while gaining economically is to position Pakistan as a regional trade and transit hub. CPEC is the perfect start. Adding on east-west connectivity by allowing India access to Afghanistan and Central Asia (ideally in return for its acceptance of CPEC) and championing fast tracking of already-agreed upon energy projects that flow from Central Asia to India will offer Pakistan significant transit fees and local economic benefits, remove India’s opposition to CPEC, and force genuine economic interdependence. The outcome will also align with the US interest in offering Afghanistan greater economic opportunity and incidentally, China’s ultimate goal of doing the same.

Admittedly, this is easier said than done — and unpopular. But even initiating a serious internal debate on this vision will force a rethink of our own dated take on geo-strategy, begin shifting the global view of Pakistan as the impediment to regional integration in South Asia, and prompt India to question the utility of its policy of seeking to isolate Pakistan globally.

by DAWN
Turmoil in Kashmir has been the issue still deteriorating India's reputation and limelight over Pakistan. If it wasn't ever internationalized by Nehru, may be India's fate would have been different. Anyways, enjoy the comment section.