AMCA - Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (HAL)

[Super Flanker]

imho france is not going to succumb under usa pressure in near future that is the difference between all other nato members and france ,iaf will never prefer ruski engines + rafale made its first flight on ge engines not on an m88 so that means fitting in the same space wouldn't be an issue too

This is a valid point but from my POV, the best thing that we can do is jointly Develop an engine with a foreign partner (Rolls Royce or Safran) as soon as possible.

Depending on a foreign partner is not the best idea and you should always try and be self reliant on your own. If India masters Jet engine Technology than it will be a breakthrough.

 

[shuvo@y2k10]

imho france is not going to succumb under usa pressure in near future that is the difference between all other nato members and france ,iaf will never prefer ruski engines + rafale made its first flight on ge engines not on an m88 so that means fitting in the same space wouldn't be an issue too

That is a wrong assumption IMHO. Though the French behaves as if they have a very independent foreign policy, but USA can pressurize them into doing what is wants. Recent sanctions on Russia are a prime example. France and Germany did not want such fullscale sanctions, because they knew at the end of the day it will come back to bite in the ass. But finally they had to tow the US's line. And as expected rapid inflation and food shortages have hit them hard.

France previously succumbed to pressure from US and cancelled the Minstral deal with Russia. A multi-billion dollar deal had to be cancelled due to pressure from uncle Sam. The French were resisting the pressuring initially, but gave in after the Crimea crisis. Two of those ships were made in French shipyard, had to be sold to the Egyptians at highly discounted rates.

 

[SARTHAK]

That is a wrong assumption IMHO. Though the French behaves as if they have a very independent foreign policy, but USA can pressurize them into doing what is wants. Recent sanctions on Russia are a prime example. France and Germany did not want such fullscale sanctions, because they knew at the end of the day it will come back to bite in the ass. But finally they had to tow the US's line. And as expected rapid inflation and food shortages have hit them hard.

France previously succumbed to pressure from US and cancelled the Minstral deal with Russia. A multi-billion dollar deal had to be cancelled due to pressure from uncle Sam. The French were resisting the pressuring initially, but gave in after the Crimea crisis. Two of those ships were made in French shipyard, had to be sold to the Egyptians at highly discounted rates.

wait for the war to end , 50% of the sanctions be lifted and france and germany will exploit loopholes in the system to avoid sanctions and start trade with russia

 

[SARTHAK]

This is a valid point but from my POV, the best thing that we can do is jointly Develop an engine with a foreign partner (Rolls Royce or Safran) as soon as possible.

Depending on a foreign partner is not the best idea and you should always try and be self reliant on your own. If India masters Jet engine Technology than it will be a breakthrough.

yes but still m88 is tested to at 105kn max ,could be a backup for tejas mk2 , who knows usa suddenly changes its policy and doesn't allow ge engines on tejas , though i believe usa needs india more than india needs usa to counter china

 

[Super Flanker]

yes but still m88 is tested to at 105kn max ,could be a backup for tejas mk2 , who knows usa suddenly changes its policy and doesn't allow ge engines on tejas , though i believe usa needs india more than india needs usa to counter china

US knows very well that without the help of India, It will never be able to counter China, India is infact the only country in Asia who is anti Chinese and is capable of going toe to toe with the Chinese in a war. US will try it's best not to upset India. Anyways like I said, I have no tension with regards to alternate Engine suppliers if the US decides to stop the supply of engines. Harsh Vardhan Thakur has already confirmed this on twitter.

 

[SARTHAK]

US knows very well that without the help of India, It will never be able to counter China, India is infact the only country in Asia who is anti Chinese and is capable of going toe to toe with the Chinese in a war. US will try it's best not to upset India. Anyways like I said, I have no tension with regards to alternate Engine suppliers if the US decides to stop the supply of engines. Harsh Vardhan Thakur has already confirmed this on twitter.

truly speaking ,what you said is spot on , but Biden has a weird application of foreign policy , he could have stopped russia from falling into china's bucket but he did'nt , he delibrately escalated ukr conflict knowing that even allies like germany and france aren't in favour of ukr joining nato, and mark my words usa will do nothing more than aggressive military posturing when china takes taiwan, no direct attck on china will be there

 

[SARTHAK]

Over time the Technology will definitely mature to the level that we will be able to miniature DEW so that it will be applicable to be used in aircrafts.

When I saw images of 6th generation fighter concepts on "OPEN SOURCE" than most of them feature laser or DEW Weopons in them. I think so that our AHCA (if it comes after AMCA) will feature it.

Already we have started with the basics. We will get to the more advanced stages later on.

we have time (around 10 years for dew on planes)

 

[Super Flanker]

truly speaking ,what you said is spot on , but Biden has a weird application of foreign policy , he could have stopped russia from falling into china's bucket but he did'nt , he delibrately escalated ukr conflict knowing that even allies like germany and france aren't in favour of ukr joining nato, and mark my words usa will do nothing more than aggressive military posturing when china takes taiwan, no direct attck on china will be there

Remember these Important words :

"Being an Enemy of the US is dangerous but being a friend of the US can be fatal"

Don't you think that it is obvious? You know one thing? NATO and US are the ones who should have been blamed for the Russian Invasion. US and NATO Knew very well that Ukraine would have never joined NATO, so US should have assured Russia that they would not let Ukraine join NATO and Russia would in turn not invade but this was never done by the US. You see, Ukraine Invasion is actually a blessing in disguise for the west in dealing with Russia.

US and it's allies will continuously Supply Weopons to Ukraine so that the war will keep going on and this is how west wants to bleed Russia. It's all game of the west and poor Ukraine was a pawn this game.

Sorry for going off-topic mods, @ezsasa @Indx TechStyle but this painful truth had to be spoken out. You may shift my post to the Ukraine Russia war thread. Thank you moderators.

@SARTHAK don't worry, we already have alternate suppliers for engines and US too knows this very well from inside.

 

[Super Flanker]

we have time (around 10 years for dew on planes)

10 years? In the next 10 years we will roll out AMCA MK-2 right?

 

[Super Flanker]

WHO?

AMCA - Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (HAL)

When @Bhartiya Sainik is speaking about AHCA, he is trying to propose a heavyweight stealth fighter based on AMCA's Technology. AMCA stands for "Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft" whereas AHCA as proposed by @Bhartiya Sainik stands for "Advanced Heavy Combat Aircraft". From my POV, AMCA MK-1...

defenceforumindia.com

Read this post of mine in detail and you will get your answer.

 

[Super Flanker]

Wow i also know that. But has there any JV been signed with anyone.

No but in the media there are only reports which Suggest things like "India and France to develop next gen engine" etc and blah blah blah. In practical terms, nothing has been done.

 

[SARTHAK]

Don't trust the media reports. American engines are here to stay both in tejas and AMCA and no america will not sanction us.

france has cooperated with us with the dry variant , i would always trust france above usa for strategic deals

 

[Suryavanshi]

Stale Session

 

[Bhartiya Sainik]

View attachment 157656

Look at the above image, this is an image of the Vertical Stabilizer of an F-22 Raptor.

Do you notice the "Smoothening" around the control surface of the vertical Stabilizer? This is a minute design feature and it reduces RCS to some extent.

I hope that our upcoming AMCA will have this design feature implemented on the control surfaces like Ailerons/leading edge flap/Elevons etc. This will make AMCA stealthier. @Bhartiya Sainik what is your opinion about this.

Yes they have bubbled & blended the bumps of actuator housing of flaps, aelerons, rudder to reduce RCS. The hinges joints are also not exposed.
It is possible that in 6th gen jets, aero-elastic joints & hinges would be used.

 

[Bhartiya Sainik]

So, These are mostly AMCA mk2 configurations. Then what @Bhartiya Sainik is talking about? AHCA? Who is developing AHCA? If these are AMCA's mk2 characteristics then what will be the AHCA features?

I really doubt how many of these features will be in AMCA MK2. Trust me, we are decades behind USA bcoz intelligent people + funding for R&D, both are required which comes from stable economy. Showcasing a theory & vision at Expo by exhibits is 1 thing & confirming the timeline & demonstrating something is totally another thing. Just google how much top leading nations spend on R&D. Since 1940s USA has X & Y series jets.
So far the world knows what is 5th gen, theory of 6th gen with atleast some fatures like AI, VR, UCAVs & DEW have been demonstrated by USA, UK. Russia, China & EU are far behind, so what to expect from us still hanging with LCA & MKI issues. Educated public won't believe in just exhibits & interviews, it is the timely results which matter. So a good political/economic leadership + technical leadership + time & result oriented vision of forces, all 3 are required.
Russia & China counter USA's quality by quantity & socialist economy for funding. EU counters it by colaboration on R&D & things like NATO. We have none of these things in place, so we have to stop heavy import mentality & spending on over-budgeted captivating dellusional foreign brand things so that our money stops draining out of country. And many of those costly items are made in China, LOL!
Hence i'm among those 1st few people to talk about 6th gen AHCA bcoz a medium weight jet cannot fulfil requirements of 6th gen - more equipment, more processing, more electicity, more thrust, more stealth, more networking, more everything. EU dumped 5th gen jet bcoz they at least have Rafale & EF-2000 in last few decades but we got Rafale only now hence we need AMCA 1st which can be inflated to AHCA MK1 with other modifications. But by inflation i don't mean just enlarged duplication otherwise it will look like clone/cousin of F-22. We need 2 type of engines from JV with TVC. I doubt if we can make variable-cycle engine in time. Only USA seems to have R&D on GE-YF-120 back in 1980s for YF-22/23 but not deployed in production & now with GE XA100 and the P&W XA101. The AMCA can also be used as testbed for various things. The corruption, delays & other mistakes which happened with LCA to MWF should not be repeated with AMCA to AHCA.
If we want to close the gapwith atleast EU then AMCA being our 1st stealth jet should only be a stepping stone. Do u really think just 4 AAMs are sufficient & economical for a 5th gen stealth fighter in the era of 6th gen jets?
Citizens buy overbudgeted & practicaly mostly useless commercial/houehold products & gadgets justifying quality, features, durability, etc but don't understand same things for military platforms & nation's security.

 

[SARTHAK]

 

[OFBkaRakhwala]

Recent sanctions on Russia are a prime example. France and Germany did not want such fullscale sanctions, because they knew at the end of the day it will come back to bite in the ass. But finally they had to tow the US's line

They dint scumb USA rather their own population, also they are getting what they want the gas still. Their FP is pretty independent of USA, being independent is not being against.

 

[Bhartiya Sainik]

AHCA, son of AMCA, son born before father

 

[Super Flanker]

AHCA, son of AMCA, son born before father

View attachment 158447
View attachment 158448

I saw this aircraft in the opening scene of Top Gun : Maverick.

 

[Bhartiya Sainik]

I saw this aircraft in the opening scene of Top Gun : Maverick.

exactly