AMCA - Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (HAL)

Satish Sharma

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It's not only an alloy problem. The actual kaveri runs, but only in dry mode, so nothing to do with alloy.

I have the possibility to spoke with the father of M88, Andre Barbot, as I was invited to his son marriage. It was 30 years ago, more or less.
He said me that it is a question of "sorcery" as only a couple of men in the world have the enough skill and experience to assemble the differents components of an engine in harmony. Even a very skilled company as SAFRAN experience troubles (see Silvercrest failure).

See how it was long and difficult to the chinese just to copy and paste russian engines !
In the Indian case you lack proper wizards, with enough skill and experience. It will come, with time, money, failures and prototypes.
Kaveri was simply too optimistic for its time.
Kaveri was really too optimistic for its time.
Infact initially it was has 5hp stages even the f404 has 7. However later those were increased to 6.
I will say kaveri dry is ready certified in russia. It's just problem of afterburning stage on which work is in progress.
Infact a completely new engine is being made which will have all the newer technologies.
The weight will be brought down to below 1100kgs too.
Kaveri with 50kn is a descent engine. The afterburning stage is what where things got stucked in past..
Anyways the ghatak ucav will have dry kaveri. And in mid life upgrade of Tejas it will fitted with kaveri.. by that time it will be ready.

The biggest tragedy in kaveri program was being too optimistic & stoping the funding in 2013.
 

Spitfire9

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How realistic is turkey 35,000lbs engine for their KAAN which they boast of by 2028? Even the most pessimistic of them seem to think around timeline of 2035.
I do not think that the engine developers claim 2028/2029 flight in the KAAN. I think that Mr Kotil, associated with TAI, the KAAN developer, made the claim. I think he meant a development engine would be installed on a KAAN flying testbed along with a GE 110 engine. Turkey recently ran their TF6000 (6.000 lb dry thrust) engine for the first time. The status of their TF35000 (35K lb thrust) engine is not publicly known. With RR's help, it could be that the design has progressed a long way. Who knows apart from the engine development team?

My unqualified, uninformed guess is that a production engine for KAAN will not appear for around another 10 years. I would guess the same for a new engine for AMCA Mk2 - assuming India gets SAFRAN/RR started on the job very soon. When I say 'very soon' I don't mean 2/3/4 years from now.
 

Spitfire9

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Remain GB, but their last 100% english engine is old (Spey, no?)
Not quite - RR created the XG-40 engine which was the basis for the later multinational Eurojet EJ2000 engine.
Rolls Royce XG-40 | Secret Projects Forum
Later GE/RR worked on the F136 alternative engine for the F-35 until funds were cut off around 2010.
General Electric/Rolls-Royce F136 - Wikipedia
RR also worked on variable cycle engine design as part of the US Advent programme.
Adaptive Versatile Engine Technology - Wikipedia

Currently RR will be working on the design of an engine for the proposed GCAP 6th gen fighter.
 

BON PLAN

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How realistic is turkey 35,000lbs engine for their KAAN which they boast of by 2028? Even the most pessimistic of them seem to think around timeline of 2035.
It's absolutely not possible in such a so short time, specially with a so low background.
Just see how they struggle to fine tune the engine of their MBT (called BATU or BATTU), and a classical 4 stockes diesel engine is a low end tech project compared to a jet engine.
 

BON PLAN

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Not quite - RR created the XG-40 engine which was the basis for the later multinational Eurojet EJ2000 engine.
Rolls Royce XG-40 | Secret Projects Forum
Later GE/RR worked on the F136 alternative engine for the F-35 until funds were cut off around 2010.
General Electric/Rolls-Royce F136 - Wikipedia
RR also worked on variable cycle engine design as part of the US Advent programme.
Adaptive Versatile Engine Technology - Wikipedia

Currently RR will be working on the design of an engine for the proposed GCAP 6th gen fighter.
XG-40 never see a jet ! It was an engineering effort to develop or improve some technologies. EJ200 is made by 4 country, even if the british contribution is probably the best.
F136 : another shared project. A pity to see it cut, specially for brit taxpayers....
 

tfxkaanf23

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It's absolutely not possible in such a so short time, specially with a so low background.
Just see how they struggle to fine tune the engine of their MBT (called BATU or BATTU), and a classical 4 stockes diesel engine is a low end tech project compared to a jet engine.
On the contrary,
Turkish TEI and Turkish universities were investing for this engine since 2012-2013. Many Turkish engineers and professors from USA and European countries joined. That is how Turkish helicopter engine ts-1400 has become reality.
Since 2015, TEI is working on getting all necessary critical technologies for Kaan engine.
TRMotor was working on design of Kaan engine for more than 4-5 years. Project has been given to TRmotor and TEI.
Tusas ,producer of Kaan, says they will start test of national engine on Kaan in 2028. But we think it will be no earlier than 2029-2030
 

Satish Sharma

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On the contrary,
Turkish TEI and Turkish universities were investing for this engine since 2012-2013. Many Turkish engineers and professors from USA and European countries joined. That is how Turkish helicopter engine ts-1400 has become reality.
Since 2015, TEI is working on getting all necessary critical technologies for Kaan engine.
TRMotor was working on design of Kaan engine for more than 4-5 years. Project has been given to TRmotor and TEI.
Tusas ,producer of Kaan, says they will start test of national engine on Kaan in 2028. But we think it will be no earlier than 2029-2030
Tbh you guys might fire engine by that time but u have no idea how many challenges u will face. Initially it will have many many issues which will take long time to sort out. Again given economic conditions I don't think turkey have enough revenue to find such things like space program too. U guys are showing us capabilities which isro posses will be in turkey by 2035, 2038. Very very unlikely. Even logical Turkish forum users said we ain't surpassing current india in next 2 decades. How will u find such huge programs..
 

Spitfire9

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Tbh you guys might fire engine by that time but u have no idea how many challenges u will face. Initially it will have many many issues which will take long time to sort out. Again given economic conditions I don't think turkey have enough revenue to find such things like space program too. U guys are showing us capabilities which isro posses will be in turkey by 2035, 2038. Very very unlikely. Even logical Turkish forum users said we ain't surpassing current india in next 2 decades. How will u find such huge programs..
So when do you think Turkey and India will have a certified engine to use on their 5G fighter?
 

mamamia12

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So when do you think Turkey and India will have a certified engine to use on their 5G fighter?
If Loicense Building Sub Contracted Parts means one can design a Fighter Jet Engine, then everyone like Avio, IHI, MTU would have done that. Even the most braindead fanboys in Indian forums acknowledge that we need 10s of billions of dollars to make a F414 level engine, leave aside F135 level. That too through a Joint development or Technological Assistance from established companies. We have a timeline of 2040 because we know what hurdles gonna await us because we have been involved in a Turbofan development from scratch and hence the timeline is quite realistic unlike fanboys jerking off to 5 years development phase. In regarding Turbofans, if david is making the prototype then goliath is making it production ready while maintaining quality control i.e Mass Manufacturing.
 

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