AMCA - Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (HAL)

[swapcv]

No

 

[karn]

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Guys, here is a suggestion: Since Sweden has left Team tempest, why can't we invite Saab to partner us for development of AMCA?

1. F-414 Engine is already common for both Tejas mk2 and Gripen-E. New Engine infrastructure investment can be eliminated for Sweden.
2. Sweden has a timeline of 2031 to decide on Gripen c/d replacement platform. So SAAB has enough time to form a proper partnership and offer AMCA as replacement.
3. SAAB has quite a lot of infrastructure for aviation development. They are no slouches in R&D as well as manufacture of aviation equipment. Instead of sending AMCA to France for intake testing and such, Swedish facilities can be used as part of Sweden's development work share.
4. Sweden does not have its own FBW technology. It would be a good opportunity to built upon our indigenous FBW and make it export competitive.
5. SAAB can work on integrating foreign weapons like MBDA and AMRAAMs. This could be part of their work share. Since Sweden will join NATO, they will need the aircraft to be compatible with NATO weapons. The aircraft will automatically become NATO compatible for future export prospects.
6. Regarding project management, SAAB and DRDO/HAL proposing a time-line for development would make for a more compelling case compared to just HAL/DRDO alone.
7. SAAB built a very cost effective platform the Gripen with very quick turnaround times. If that team works with HAL, the manufacturing and maintenance practices will be very economical as well as practical.
8. The loyal wingman drone can be developed individually if needed or the Swedish AMCA version can have open architecture to integrate with any Europeon drone. Thus drone development cost can be eliminated to keep the program economical.

I see SAAB as a natural partner for India to develop AMCA especially since they don't have any mature comparable programs and they can't develop one on their own without blowing the bank. South Korea might have been a partner if not for the fact that they are also the competition for both India's AMCA and sweden's Gripen-E.

Taking on a development partner means that they will demand work share as well as modifications to the design .
You gotta take that into account in the cons column .

 

[DukeDoode]

AMCA is still a paper plane. Not even a demostrator has flown. CDR is expected only by late 2024. A review and modification due to saab will bolster confidence in the program for IAF and GOI.

 

[Azaad]

AMCA is still a paper plane. Not even a demostrator has flown. CDR is expected only by late 2024. A review and modification due to saab will bolster confidence in the program for IAF and GOI.

https://www.janes.com/defence-news/...finishes-systems-level-critical-design-review

Our primary requirement is that of a power plant where SAAB can't help us at all. All the other critical technologies can be developed in house. In case of any difficulty we can turn to the French for paid consultation as we've on plenty of occasions in the past. Collaboration with SAAB makes neither tactical nor strategic sense. They've literally nothing or not much to offer us .

 

[karn]

A review and modification due to saab will bolster confidence in the program for IAF and GOI.

Why ?

 

[Arjun Mk1A]

AMCA is still a paper plane. Not even a demostrator has flown. CDR is expected only by late 2024. A review and modification due to saab will bolster confidence in the program for IAF and GOI.

SAAB itself never worked on an 5th Gen platform. What kind of technical review they will provide.
Powerplant.
Avionics.
Stealth Tech.

 

[Super Flanker]

No need to tilt towards SAAB for any type of technology for the AMCA. We can build everything for the AMCA in India itself, be it the advanced radar, the wings, the cockpit, the weopons etc.. everything except the engine. For the engine I believe we have an agreement in place with France's Saffran. SAAB is in close co operation with Pakistan too, remember they sold SAAB 2000 Erieye to the PAF? There is nothing meaningful we would gain from SAAB, it's pointless to even think of co operating with SAAB for that matter.

 

[NutCracker]

AMCA is still a paper plane. Not even a demostrator has flown. CDR is expected only by late 2024. A review and modification due to saab will bolster confidence in the program for IAF and GOI.

And what SAAB aspires in a 5th Gen is not even on papers yet. You think SAAB won't ask for workshare and modifications in the project ?? Imagine how much time will be wasted on that stupid shit. Do you want to turn AMCA into Eurofighter.

 

[MirageBlue]

Home Meta-defense.fr - Defense news and analysis

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Guys, here is a suggestion: Since Sweden has left Team tempest, why can't we invite Saab to partner us for development of AMCA?

1. F-414 Engine is already common for both Tejas mk2 and Gripen-E. New Engine infrastructure investment can be eliminated for Sweden.
2. Sweden has a timeline of 2031 to decide on Gripen c/d replacement platform. So SAAB has enough time to form a proper partnership and offer AMCA as replacement.
3. SAAB has quite a lot of infrastructure for aviation development. They are no slouches in R&D as well as manufacture of aviation equipment. Instead of sending AMCA to France for intake testing and such, Swedish facilities can be used as part of Sweden's development work share.
4. Sweden does not have its own FBW technology. It would be a good opportunity to built upon our indigenous FBW and make it export competitive.
5. SAAB can work on integrating foreign weapons like MBDA and AMRAAMs. This could be part of their work share. Since Sweden will join NATO, they will need the aircraft to be compatible with NATO weapons. The aircraft will automatically become NATO compatible for future export prospects.
6. Regarding project management, SAAB and DRDO/HAL proposing a time-line for development would make for a more compelling case compared to just HAL/DRDO alone.
7. SAAB built a very cost effective platform the Gripen with very quick turnaround times. If that team works with HAL, the manufacturing and maintenance practices will be very economical as well as practical.
8. The loyal wingman drone can be developed individually if needed or the Swedish AMCA version can have open architecture to integrate with any Europeon drone. Thus drone development cost can be eliminated to keep the program economical.

I see SAAB as a natural partner for India to develop AMCA especially since they don't have any mature comparable programs and they can't develop one on their own without blowing the bank. South Korea might have been a partner if not for the fact that they are also the competition for both India's AMCA and sweden's Gripen-E.

While it is an appealing prospect, remember one thing- having multiple "partners" in a program can introduce newer requirements that can derail the timelines for the primary customer. In this case the IAF is the single customer driving the development. Flygvapnet will have it's own set of diverse requirements that could alter a lot of the design.

Also, the AMCA has cleared CDR, so the airframe design, avionics design, eletricals, hydraulics, most of the LRUs etc. have been frozen or are very close to being frozen. Introducing a new partner at this stage would mean a lot of changes unless the idea is to develop a separate variant for Sweden. For e.g. Saab will want the Gripen E's avionics architecture to be used on their variant. What does ADA gain from that when they have designed their own architecture for the Tejas Mk1, Mk2, AMCA and TEDBF?

Cost sharing is a very complex process to define, as it is one of the big areas of difference in understanding. HAL and it's suppliers will be reluctant to let go of workshare without gaining a significant amount of business from sales to the Flygvapnet.

India has the money to go it alone. The question is what does Saab bring to the table that HAL and ADA lack? Saab has relatively little to offer in the engine development area where we lag.

 

[FalconSlayers]

 

[Corvus Splendens]

Tell us everything you've developed so far and stop developing anymore immediately, we'll get you off the shelf tech from old stealth projects to finish making this aircraft.

 

[NutCracker]

Tell us everything you've developed so far and stop developing anymore immediately, we'll get you off the shelf tech from old stealth projects to finish making this aircraft.
View attachment 229608

Lekin apan ne to 3D-model already unke wind tunnel me testing ke liye bhej diya hai ..

 

[AnantS]

Lekin apan ne to 3D-model already unke wind tunnel me testing ke liye bhej diya hai ..
View attachment 229609

Wind tunnel testing and modelling - is just 1% of the actual tasks developing aircraft. Full Scale Model RCS testing gives you more accurate RCS results.

 

[spacemarine2023]

Lekin apan ne to 3D-model already unke wind tunnel me testing ke liye bhej diya hai ..
View attachment 229609

why the fck our military planners r so fckin stupid… I reiterate if china is a poisonous snake… USA is a demonic evil entity…

 

[Chinmoy]

why the fck our military planners r so fckin stupid… I reiterate if china is a poisonous snake… USA is a demonic evil entity…

My question is,

Why the members here are so fcking stupid that they have to respond to every tom, dick and harry news report?

 

[Corvus Splendens]

My question is,

Why the members here are so fcking stupid that they have to respond to every tom, dick and harry news report?

Some solid progress on the project with new development news would do to satisfy the frustrated people. The gov is yet to sanction the funds but talks about it every opportunity they get and ferry around the same scale models in every expo. We're approaching 2025 and the MK1A Tejas hasn't been delivered yet, much less the Mk2 which is going to take 2028 at this rate. They are even planning a Mk2 AMCA with side bays which at this rate will come at 2040 and make the aircraft outdated by then standards. Fact is we're always playing catch-up from 20 years behind, but there is no adequate unified national will to play catch-up at a cheetah's pace like China did. Missiles and Radar are the only fields we're doing well currently.

 

[Chinmoy]

Some solid progress on the project with new development news would do to satisfy the frustrated people. The gov is yet to sanction the funds but talks about it every opportunity they get and ferry around the same scale models in every expo. We're approaching 2025 and the MK1A Tejas hasn't been delivered yet, much less the Mk2 which is going to take 2028 at this rate. They are even planning a Mk2 AMCA with side bays which at this rate will come at 2040 and make the aircraft outdated by then standards. Fact is we're always playing catch-up from 20 years behind, but there is no adequate unified national will to play catch-up at a cheetah's pace like China did. Missiles and Radar are the only fields we're doing well currently.

Actually the solid news already came out.

 

[Aniruddha Mulay]

Some solid progress on the project with new development news would do to satisfy the frustrated people. The gov is yet to sanction the funds but talks about it every opportunity they get and ferry around the same scale models in every expo. We're approaching 2025 and the MK1A Tejas hasn't been delivered yet, much less the Mk2 which is going to take 2028 at this rate. They are even planning a Mk2 AMCA with side bays which at this rate will come at 2040 and make the aircraft outdated by then standards. Fact is we're always playing catch-up from 20 years behind, but there is no adequate unified national will to play catch-up at a cheetah's pace like China did. Missiles and Radar are the only fields we're doing well currently.

Dude, when the contract for Tejas Mk1A was signed back in Feb 2021, it was clearly mentioned that deliveries would start from Feb 2024, 36 months after the contract signature.

I didn't see members of this forum going into a meltdown about this 36 month lead time when the first Rafale jet was delivered in Sept 2019 although the contract was signed in Sept 2016.

 

[mokoman]

Dude, when the contract for Tejas Mk1A was signed back in Feb 2021, it was clearly mentioned that deliveries would start from Feb 2024, 36 months after the contract signature.

I didn't see members of this forum going into a meltdown about this 36 month lead time when the first Rafale jet was delivered in Sept 2019 although the contract was signed in Sept 2016.

rafale delivery was assured . only gods knows when mk2 or amca will come into existence.

people watching would have more faith once atleast assembly pics come out .

 

[Aniruddha Mulay]

rafale delivery was assured . only gods knows when mk2 or amca will come into existence.

people watching would have more faith once atleast assembly pics come out .

I am talking about Tejas Mk1A here, not Tejas Mk2 or AMCA.
No need to engage in whataboutery