AMCA - Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (HAL)

[Vamsi]

For me it sounds like a desperate bargain, since govt doesn't want a phoren 5th gen fighter (atleast for now), it seems like they atleast want phoren Radar, EW suite in AMCA

 

[jai jaganath]

IAF Chief Calls For Foreign Collaborations On Futuristic Fighter Jet Programme

In an exclusive interview to BW Businessworld’s Vishal Thapar, Air Chief Marshal Vivek Ram Chaudhari flags scepticism over AMCA and LCA Mk-2 deadlines and seeks “prudent back-up development plan”, , AMCA, Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft, iaf, Air Chief Marshal Vivek Ram Chaudhari, LCA Mk-2...

www.businessworld.in

some common sense from the IAF chief

AMCA - the Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft - programme is due for a key milestone, the completion of the critical design review (CDR) by the end of 2022. The AMCA project director AK Ghosh has been recently quoted stating that the first prototype of India’s futuristic fighter will roll out by end-2025 and the deadline for the first flight is 2026-27.

The only significant foreign collaboration sought by the ADA is for the development of a 110 kN engine to power the futuristic fighter. The French Safran, British Rolls Royce and American General Electric are competing to offer collaboration backed by their respective Governments.

But now, the IAF Chief has advised “prudence” of foreign tie-ups as a back-up for development of “alternative systems and sensors” just in case the indigenous effort slips on deadlines.

--------

Air Chief Marshal Chaudhari expressed the same anxiety with respect to the LCA Mk-2. “LCA Mk-2 was initially planned to be rolled out in 2018. CCS (Cabinet Committee on Security) approval for the design and development of the aircraft has been granted recently. Readiness for flight testing is envisaged by 2024 followed by induction from 2030-31. This is an aggressive timeline and we hope that ADA and HAL will be able to meet it,” he stated.

only gods know if/when any of these things happen .

Now if I port anything will be considered as rant and of no general use
But the point is many people including me asked how are pushing the timelines of first flight without pushing the induction time
This entire system is rotten to bottom
Now no new jets except mk1a till 2031
Over enthusiastic people were explaining developing a base take stime but building over base experience and research, things will take less time
But sorry such logics are applicable to those who have a national goal, planning and knowing of what they want to achieve not for countries like ours where politicians doesn't give a damn regarding security and ready to negotiate with land
Anything else will lead to serious consequences for me so I am keeping mu post limited but no matter how much we say never believe their timelines nor their expectations
Agar by chance cong govt ajay toh mk2 tata khatam bye bye gaya

 

[jai jaganath]

I don't know why I can't copy the exact tweets
So here is what @tejintel said :-
Now tht the IAF hs flagged the issue of derailment of timelines - its time we enthusiasts also stop following the AMCA and Mk2 truculently. The Chief thinks even the current timelines are aggressive. Have already stopped posting updates about MK2 now I will stop with AMCA as well

 

[Blademaster]

Don't worry.
Only major component left now are engine and ejection seat.
Engine we are working on.

As for ejection seat, talks with Argentina has made it clear that brits won't be supplying it.

We are on the right path.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.financialexpress.com/defence/ejection-seats-in-military-aircraft-india-seeks-to-develop-indigenous-capability/2763477/lite/

Paging @DarkSorrow paging @DarkSorrow. See this above? It goes to prove what I have been saying all along. It is good that India develop indigenous ejection seats. Now we just have to get the Kaveri engine program back on track.

 

[NutCracker]

Paging @DarkSorrow paging @DarkSorrow. See this above? It goes to prove what I have been saying all along. It is good that India develop indigenous ejection seats. Now we just have to get the Kaveri engine program back on track.

@Dark Sorrow

 

[Aniruddha Mulay]

IAF Chief Calls For Foreign Collaborations On Futuristic Fighter Jet Programme

In an exclusive interview to BW Businessworld’s Vishal Thapar, Air Chief Marshal Vivek Ram Chaudhari flags scepticism over AMCA and LCA Mk-2 deadlines and seeks “prudent back-up development plan”, , AMCA, Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft, iaf, Air Chief Marshal Vivek Ram Chaudhari, LCA Mk-2...

www.businessworld.in

some common sense from the IAF chief

AMCA - the Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft - programme is due for a key milestone, the completion of the critical design review (CDR) by the end of 2022. The AMCA project director AK Ghosh has been recently quoted stating that the first prototype of India’s futuristic fighter will roll out by end-2025 and the deadline for the first flight is 2026-27.

The only significant foreign collaboration sought by the ADA is for the development of a 110 kN engine to power the futuristic fighter. The French Safran, British Rolls Royce and American General Electric are competing to offer collaboration backed by their respective Governments.

But now, the IAF Chief has advised “prudence” of foreign tie-ups as a back-up for development of “alternative systems and sensors” just in case the indigenous effort slips on deadlines.

--------

Air Chief Marshal Chaudhari expressed the same anxiety with respect to the LCA Mk-2. “LCA Mk-2 was initially planned to be rolled out in 2018. CCS (Cabinet Committee on Security) approval for the design and development of the aircraft has been granted recently. Readiness for flight testing is envisaged by 2024 followed by induction from 2030-31. This is an aggressive timeline and we hope that ADA and HAL will be able to meet it,” he stated.

only gods know if/when any of these things happen .

Common sense LOL, sounds like absolute stupidity to me.
No other country other than the US has technology that can be utilized to build a 5th generation fighter jet.
Whatever Europe and UK have is 4.5gen at best, heck even RAF EF Typhoon operate with a PESA radar with no AESA radar on horizon until 2025-27.
FCAS and Tempest are 6th generation aircraft which are not going to take shape until 2035 at earliest.
So this search for foreign collaboration as a backup plan is stupid to begin with.
No country will part its cutting-edge tech, there will be zero know-how and know-why transfer and IP rights will remain the foreign OEM, thereby this exercise is futile.

Also, which Tejas Mk2 rollout in 2018 is this guy talking about??
The current configuration had not been frozen until 2019 and CDR was only recieved and accepted by IAF in November 2021, followed by release of funds a year later.

 

[Aniruddha Mulay]

I don't know why I can't copy the exact tweets
So here is what @tejintel said :-
Now tht the IAF hs flagged the issue of derailment of timelines - its time we enthusiasts also stop following the AMCA and Mk2 truculently. The Chief thinks even the current timelines are aggressive. Have already stopped posting updates about MK2 now I will stop with AMCA as well

This guy is probably the least reliable defence analyst out there.
His stupidity was exposed in his QRSAM failure tweet

 

[jai jaganath]

This guy is probably the least reliable defence analyst out there.
His stupidity was exposed in his QRSAM failure tweet

He has been true wrt updates related to tejas mk1a and mk2 and other indigenous programs

 

[Gyyan]

Hey i know it's kinda idiotic to think and there maybe some errors in the idea but why doesn't ADA do sponsorship for funds.
For example ADA needs 900cr for each prototype of AMCA so they get money from 20 companies 45 crore each and they get to say how their product powered the prototype development of indias 1st stealth aircraft.
That's a tagline you could use for decades and comes with various other benefits for the companies too.
Instead of paying 5 crore to some Canadian wanna be deshbhakt a guy who cant do any roles except the serious ones and last who hasn't given a successful movie for almost 3-4 years.

Cancer bech rahe hai to desh ke development me bhi hath batao.

 

[Dark Sorrow]

Paging @DarkSorrow paging @DarkSorrow. See this above? It goes to prove what I have been saying all along. It is good that India develop indigenous ejection seats. Now we just have to get the Kaveri engine program back on track.

If you original source carefully :
Hindustan Aeronautics Limited is seeking a foreign partner to set up a joint venture to manufacture ejection seats in India, for its own aircraft.

Guess who the foreign partner would be.

 

[NoobWannaLearn]

If you original source carefully :
Hindustan Aeronautics Limited is seeking a foreign partner to set up a joint venture to manufacture ejection seats in India, for its own aircraft.

Guess who the foreign partner would be.

Russia probably?

 

[Dark Sorrow]

Russia probably?

From what I heard Martin Baker.

 

[NoobWannaLearn]

From what I heard Martin Baker.

Ok hard to believe they will agree to sell those to Argentina then but maybe with jv its possible

 

[Dark Sorrow]

Ok hard to believe they will agree to sell those to Argentina then but maybe with jv its possible

British don't have as much problem as Argentinians.
The reason why Martin Baker is preferred as they are really good at what they do and logistic commonality with existing platform.

 

[Dark Sorrow]

Don't worry.
Only major component left now are engine and ejection seat.
Engine we are working on.

As for ejection seat, talks with Argentina has made it clear that brits won't be supplying it.

We are on the right path.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.financialexpress.com/defence/ejection-seats-in-military-aircraft-india-seeks-to-develop-indigenous-capability/2763477/lite/

Let me give you list of imported major subsystems

1. SBC and its associated peripherals cards
2. OS for SBC
3. S/W that are used to wire S/W for SBC
4. Semiconductors
5. Sensors (IMU, etc.)
6. Actuators
7. IFR Probe
8. Radome
9. Cockpit Display
10. SDR
11. Radar
12. Targeting pods
13. Gun
14. Ejection Seat
15. Helmet Mounted Display and Sight (HMDS) system

We have made great achievement and we are still making lot of progress in the domain.
We should not forget we still have a long way to go.

 

[NoobWannaLearn]

British don't have as much problem as Argentinians.
The reason why Martin Baker is preferred as they are really good at what they do and logistic commonality with existing platform.

Then I hope some good results come out with this jv and we become more self reliant

 

[Gyyan]

Hey i know it's kinda idiotic to think and there maybe some errors in the idea but why doesn't ADA do sponsorship for funds.
For example ADA needs 900cr for each prototype of AMCA so they get money from 20 companies 45 crore each and they get to say how their product powered the prototype development of indias 1st stealth aircraft.
That's a tagline you could use for decades and comes with various other benefits for the companies too.
Instead of paying 5 crore to some Canadian wanna be deshbhakt a guy who cant do any roles except the serious ones and last who hasn't given a successful movie for almost 3-4 years.

Cancer bech rahe hai to desh ke development me bhi hath batao.

I know I said it's an idiotic idea but what is the problem with it anybody?

 

[AnantS]

Let me give you list of imported major subsystems

1. SBC and its associated peripherals cards
2. OS for SBC
3. S/W that are used to wire S/W for SBC
4. Semiconductors
5. Sensors (IMU, etc.)
6. Actuators
7. IFR Probe
8. Radome
9. Cockpit Display
10. SDR
11. Radar
12. Targeting pods
13. Gun

We have made great achievement and we are still making lot of progress in the domain.
We should not forget we still have a long way to go.

What is SBC? Do you mean LRUs? Out of 344 LRUs 210 are manufactured in india, 134 are imported, out of 134, 42 shall be produced in india. Quartz Radome shall be replaced by locally developed one.
Cockpit display is manufactured by SAMTEL india(i believe it has jv with Elbit or Thales)
Actuators are not imported.

Indian Airforce:- How ‘indigenous’ is the Indian Tejas LCA?

Light Combat Aircraft Tejas or simply as we know LCA Tejas is the second in line indigenously produced fighter aircraft by Hindustan Aeronautics Limited after the HAL Marut. How Indigenous is LCA-T…

defenceupdate.in

.

 

[Abdus Salem killed]

Let me give you list of imported major subsystems

1. SBC and its associated peripherals cards
2. OS for SBC
3. S/W that are used to wire S/W for SBC
4. Semiconductors
5. Sensors (IMU, etc.)
6. Actuators
7. IFR Probe
8. Radome
9. Cockpit Display
10. SDR
11. Radar
12. Targeting pods
13. Gun
14. Ejection Seat
15. Helmet Mounted Display and Sight (HMDS) system

We have made great achievement and we are still making lot of progress in the domain.
We should not forget we still have a long way to go.

I believe 80 percent of these will be replaced soon

 

[Dark Sorrow]

What is SBC? Do you mean LRUs? Out of 344 LRUs 210 are manufactured in india, 134 are imported, out of 134, 42 shall be produced in india. Quartz Radome shall be replaced by locally developed one.
Cockpit display is manufactured by SAMTEL india(i believe it has jv with Elbit or Thales)
Actuators are not imported.

View attachment 183815

Indian Airforce:- How ‘indigenous’ is the Indian Tejas LCA?

Light Combat Aircraft Tejas or simply as we know LCA Tejas is the second in line indigenously produced fighter aircraft by Hindustan Aeronautics Limited after the HAL Marut. How Indigenous is LCA-T…

defenceupdate.in

.

SBC means Single Board Computers.
Their is a big difference between shall be/will be and are being manufactured locally.
For any manufacturing activity (especially defense manufacturing) shall be/will be are not regarded as indigenous replacements but rather pipe dreams unless to have something to show for.
Actuators regarding engines are being imported.
Cockpit display are assembled in India not manufactured. Their is a difference in the statement.
LRUs are still being imported and several of these so called locally manufactured LRU is assembly job from knock-down kits.
Manufactured locally doesn't translates indigenous system. It mainly means manufactured in India in collaboration with foreign partner.
We have not done the whole cycle of R&D, testing, certification, etc. for these LRUs.
Locally company have partnered with foreign partner and what they basically do is assemble from know-down kits.

People only think about engine, ejection seat, radome, IFR probe as imported items but if you drill down we import a lot of sub-systems.

We still have a long way to go before we are self-reliant like US or PRC.

This is one of the main reason why IAF chief asked for JV with foreign partners. Don't know why lot of people got hyper on that statement.