AMCA - Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (HAL)

[MonaLazy]

The cost you mention are the development cost for AMCA program. This cost does not include production infrastructure cost. Funds will be released for production infrastructure development once AMCA prototype becomes viable for mass manufacturing.
Once production is approved, GoI will release money for mass production, this is when buying such press will be done.

Won't it be too late then? Such a major change will necessitate re-certification as it will expand the flight envelope in all directions.

 

[Dark Sorrow]

Won't it be too late then? Such a major change will necessitate re-certification as it will expand the flight envelope in all directions.

That is GoI operates. This is one of the reason why Tejas got delayed.

 

[NutCracker]

The cost you mention are the development cost for AMCA program. This cost does not include production infrastructure cost. Funds will be released for production infrastructure development once AMCA prototype becomes viable for mass manufacturing.
Once production is approved, GoI will release money for mass production, this is when buying such press will be done.

This has to fricking happen , considering it reduces component's weight upto 10-15 percent , and we lacking 110kN engine. Every KG saved is extra fuel/Payload/Armament/power for EW components.

 

[asaffronladoftherisingsun]

 

[NutCracker]

Are u sure that huge forge press will be sanctioned
I don't think so bcoz that will eat a lot of cost
I think the hal way of forging bulkheads in parts will also be done as our govt loves jugaad

We have at least 30 Billion dollars of worth of upcoming indigenous fighter Aircraft projects.
150M$ for 30-40kT press would be pennies.

 

[Dark Sorrow]

Are u sure that huge forge press will be sanctioned
I don't think so bcoz that will eat a lot of cost
I think the hal way of forging bulkheads in parts will also be done as our govt loves jugaad

Once the aircraft will be viable for mass manufacturing such press will be procured.
Such press will be used for future platform as well like AMCA Mk. 2, TEDBF (ORCA if accepted by IAF), Ghatak UCAV and FUFA prototypes. Cost will be distrusted along various platform making it economically viable.
I believe the current press has been installed in 2000s (can someone confirm this) and is due for upgrading after 20-30 years of service.

 

[Rajaraja Chola]

ADA and DRDO are the primary agencies working on development of Mk. 1A.

TASL is one of the contender.

Nope. Mk1A is HAL baby. Mk1A, Mk2 and amca is ADA.

 

[Rajaraja Chola]

Nasik? Wasn’t the first metal cutting done in BLR?

Guess this confirms that HAL is lining Nasik up to be the AMCA production centre , when are we going to hear about the SPV formation? After first flight will be too late

Nashik location is not big enough for two projects. Remember Sukhoi upgrade would cost us billions already and their capacity is 12 Su at a time. I think for now ADA will be taking things over and when SPV is formed, that SPV will pay for usage of HALs facilities.

 

[asaffronladoftherisingsun]

 

[Dark Sorrow]

Nope. Mk1A is HAL baby. Mk1A, Mk2 and amca is ADA.

Sir, your statement is self contradictory.
List of upgrades in Tejas Mark 1A

1. Uttam AESA Radar - developed by DRDO, integration by ADA
2. DARE Unified Electronic Warfare Suite (UEWS) - developed by DRDO, integration by ADA
3. An externally mounted self protection jammer (SPJ) for enhanced survivability - developed by DRDO, integration by ADA
4. Instrument flight rules (IFR) capability - developed by DRDO, integration by ADA
5. Onboard Oxygen Generation System (OBOGS) - developed by DRDO, integration by ADA
6. Expanded weapon suite including integration of Astra BVRAAM and ASRAAM - developed by DRDO, integration by ADA
7. Digital Flight Control Computers Developed and integrated by ADA
8. Air Data Computer developed by DRDO, integration by ADA
9. Weapon Computers developed by ADE, integration by ADA
10. RWR developed by DRDO, integration by ADA
11. HUD developed by CSIO, integration by ADA
12. To better accommodate the pilots, cockpit floor is also reshaped by ADA
13. Combined Interrogator and Transponder (CIT) with digital map generator i.e. IFF Developed by HAL, integrated by ADA
14. Indigenous radome (if used, has to be approved by ADA).

The fact is ADA is responsible for all design and development activity of Tejas.

 

[NutCracker]

The new 10,000 ton press, which is expected to enter production by September 2014, can forge aluminum, steel, and titanium parts up to 400kg.

Aerospace forging press is India's largest

SQuAD Forging's 10,000 ton capacity press will forge large airplane components, structural parts.

www.aerospacemanufacturinganddesign.com

.

Will we use press for MK2 also ?

How many parts in MK2/AMCA might be heavier than 400kg.
This could clear things out if we need bigger hydraulic press than 10kT or not.

 

[Rajaraja Chola]

Sir, your statement is self contradictory.
List of upgrades in Tejas Mark 1A

1. Uttam AESA Radar - developed by DRDO, integration by ADA
2. DARE Unified Electronic Warfare Suite (UEWS) - developed by DRDO, integration by ADA
3. An externally mounted self protection jammer (SPJ) for enhanced survivability - developed by DRDO, integration by ADA
4. Instrument flight rules (IFR) capability - developed by DRDO, integration by ADA
5. Onboard Oxygen Generation System (OBOGS) - developed by DRDO, integration by ADA
6. Expanded weapon suite including integration of Astra BVRAAM and ASRAAM - developed by DRDO, integration by ADA
7. Digital Flight Control Computers Developed and integrated by ADA
8. Air Data Computer developed by DRDO, integration by ADA
9. Weapon Computers developed by ADE, integration by ADA
10. RWR developed by DRDO, integration by ADA
11. HUD developed by CSIO, integration by ADA
12. To better accommodate the pilots, cockpit floor is also reshaped by ADA
13. Combined Interrogator and Transponder (CIT) with digital map generator i.e. IFF Developed by HAL, integrated by ADA
14. Indigenous radome (if used, has to be approved by ADA).

The fact is ADA is responsible for all design and development activity of Tejas.

Yes and no. The individual components would/might are developed by ADA/DARE/BEL etc. But integration is done by HAL as a project. They are leading this and not ADA. As far as ADA is concerned, they have completed the project and given it over to HAL.

In addition to the above, HAL is doing internal rearrangement of components, removal of 300kg ballast, improvement from maintenance perspective. ADA engineers might still work for HAL on loan, but this activities themselves are led by HAL. Remember HAL themselves have the capacities to do development themselves like trainers, Jag upgrade etc.

 

[johnj]

Sir, your statement is self contradictory.
List of upgrades in Tejas Mark 1A

1. Uttam AESA Radar - developed by DRDO, integration by ADA
2. DARE Unified Electronic Warfare Suite (UEWS) - developed by DRDO, integration by ADA
3. An externally mounted self protection jammer (SPJ) for enhanced survivability - developed by DRDO, integration by ADA
4. Instrument flight rules (IFR) capability - developed by DRDO, integration by ADA
5. Onboard Oxygen Generation System (OBOGS) - developed by DRDO, integration by ADA
6. Expanded weapon suite including integration of Astra BVRAAM and ASRAAM - developed by DRDO, integration by ADA
7. Digital Flight Control Computers Developed and integrated by ADA
8. Air Data Computer developed by DRDO, integration by ADA
9. Weapon Computers developed by ADE, integration by ADA
10. RWR developed by DRDO, integration by ADA
11. HUD developed by CSIO, integration by ADA
12. To better accommodate the pilots, cockpit floor is also reshaped by ADA
13. Combined Interrogator and Transponder (CIT) with digital map generator i.e. IFF Developed by HAL, integrated by ADA
14. Indigenous radome (if used, has to be approved by ADA).

The fact is ADA is responsible for all design and development activity of Tejas.

When ada going to complect all this ??
currently hal upgrading foc with israel/ada help to elm2052 mk1a, i think.

 

[Rajaraja Chola]

Yes and no. The individual components would/might are developed by ADA/DARE/BEL etc. But integration is done by HAL as a project. They are leading this and not ADA. As far as ADA is concerned, they have completed the project and given it over to HAL.

In addition to the above, HAL is doing internal rearrangement of components, removal of 300kg ballast, improvement from maintenance perspective. ADA engineers might still work for HAL on loan, but this activities themselves are led by HAL. Remember HAL themselves have the capacities to do development themselves like trainers, Jag upgrade etc.

And remember, it's not done by ADA funds. From HAL funds.

 

[johnj]

Yes and no. The individual components would/might are developed by ADA/DARE/BEL etc. But integration is done by HAL as a project. They are leading this and not ADA. As far as ADA is concerned, they have completed the project and given it over to HAL.

In addition to the above, HAL is doing internal rearrangement of components, removal of 300kg ballast, improvement from maintenance perspective. ADA engineers might still work for HAL on loan, but this activities themselves are led by HAL. Remember HAL themselves have the capacities to do development themselves like trainers, Jag upgrade etc.

ADA engineers might still work for HAL on loan - means working together,ada supporting hal,

 

[IndianHawk]

So metal cutting for AMCA has started finally. Which means a roll out by 2024 is imminent and we might see induction by 2030.

All these tech improvements like single bulkhead , larger press machine etc might come with AMCA mk2 program which will have larger production run and far bigger budgets. By 2030 our defence budget should be around 150 billion USD at the least and we should be able to afford much better infrastructure and machinery.

2030 is also the time when development of lca mk2 and tedbf will be over and we shall be embarking over su30mki replacement jets which shall be in the class of ngad/ tempest/ fcas . This will necessitate investment into technologies and equipment even beyond what AMCA requires.

 

[Dark Sorrow]

Yes and no. The individual components would/might are developed by ADA/DARE/BEL etc. But integration is done by HAL as a project. They are leading this and not ADA. As far as ADA is concerned, they have completed the project and given it over to HAL.

Design integration and validation is being done by ADA. Once approved and certified by ADA these changes will be implemented by HAL on actual aircraft. The project is not completed by ADA perspective.
I have confirmed this on ground. All design work w.r.t. to Tejas comes under the purview of ADA.

In addition to the above, HAL is doing internal rearrangement of components, removal of 300kg ballast, improvement from maintenance perspective. ADA engineers might still work for HAL on loan, but this activities themselves are led by HAL. Remember HAL themselves have the capacities to do development themselves like trainers, Jag upgrade etc.

Yes, HAL has designed aircraft in past but a 4th generation aircraft is all together different ball game.
Another thing HAL doesn't own the source code for mission computer nor the simulation models to enable it to successfully integrate third party LRUs.

 

[Aditya Ballal]

From the mouth of a member of the AMCA team from HAL’s side.

 

[NutCracker]

View attachment 164364
From the mouth of a member of the AMCA team from HAL’s side.

Shouldnt it affect RCS ?
Cant this be made retractable ?

 

[Indx TechStyle]

So metal cutting for AMCA has started finally. Which means a roll out by 2024 is imminent and we might see induction by 2030.

All these tech improvements like single bulkhead , larger press machine etc might come with AMCA mk2 program which will have larger production run and far bigger budgets. By 2030 our defence budget should be around 150 billion USD at the least and we should be able to afford much better infrastructure and machinery.

2030 is also the time when development of lca mk2 and tedbf will be over and we shall be embarking over su30mki replacement jets which shall be in the class of ngad/ tempest/ fcas . This will necessitate investment into technologies and equipment even beyond what AMCA requires.

While we cope and dream when things go the right away, some shit happens we end up achieving bare 40-50% of original target. The political orientation of US doesn't look much friendly for past 2-3 years. So unless a joint venture with Safran produces a successful engine and expertise for India, aerospaxe program is going to be ruined for 1-2 decades more. Delays of few to 7-8 years are inevitable anyway when R&D is there. It's better not to hope that much. Before acquiring mass production ability, we will be messing around to produce something fully compliant to requirements, thing that would cause delays.