AMCA - Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (HAL)

DibyaXP

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Coming to DSI intake than yes they are pretty big in comparison to overall aircraft's size but they look fine from overhead and side view.

I like the design of the SU-57 more than any other 5th generation fighter. Coming to the control system of SU-57 than I don't know if it uses fly by wire or fly by optics. Will have to research more about this.
Video sponsored by Rosboron export shown that
 

no smoking

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I personally asked Dr. Girish Dheodhare in Aero India, he replied they studied Aerodynamics of F22 and avionics of F35 , they wanted a balance between stealth and aerodynamics , unlike F35 which is terrible in Aerodynamic performance , AMCA will excell in Aerodynamics , its a miniature and more modernized raptor and unique in its own rights. F35 to be honest is a junk
Did this Doctor say that?
On this planet, there is no one has more experiences and knowledge on aerodynamics and stealth design than Americans. Let's see what kind of design that Indian scientists can come up eventually.
 

Dark Sorrow

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Dont think India follows western doctrine , TVC is part of our doctrine with heavy jamming and CCM and BVR>
Here from Mouth of Horse [Klimov]
IAF has decided to follow western doctrine. This is especially true are we established good relation with Israel and got access to EW suite that are second to none.
IAF has decided EW is the best defense against BVRAAM and SAM.
TVC while good to have but TVC or maneuverability is not going to be our primary defense against BVRAAM and SAM.
With advent of Solid Fueled Ducted Ramjet Technology out maneuvering a missile is becoming near impossible.
 
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Dark Sorrow

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If it is there cool .. I have seen IAF officers give the opinion that TVC is unnecessary and an added weight .
I'll believe it when I see it .. kitane MOU aaye kitne MOU gaye.
I would like to add that TVC only improves maneuverability marginally against the complexity it adds to the entire system. If one does cost benefit analysis designing an aerodynamically superior plane is better option than adding TVC.

One don't do complex maneuvers in combat.

The biggest problem with maneuverability is that once you start maneuvering you loose the track of enemy, you can't effectively shoot back and you waste too much fuel.
 

DibyaXP

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Did this Doctor say that?
On this planet, there is no one has more experiences and knowledge on aerodynamics and stealth design than Americans. Let's see what kind of design that Indian scientists can come up eventually.
He didnt say exact word junk , but he said , F35 is maintenance heavy and aerodynamics is bad, only stealth is not what IAF wanted but a balanced machine. He said F22 Raptor is best jet still now , he said AMCA might not me as stealthy as raptor but going to have similar aerodynamic capabilities.
 

Dark Sorrow

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He didnt say exact word junk , but he said , F35 is maintenance heavy and aerodynamics is bad, only stealth is not what IAF wanted but a balanced machine. He said F22 Raptor is best jet still now , he said AMCA might not me as stealthy as raptor but going to have similar aerodynamic capabilities.
All aircraft whether F-35 or other need continual maintenance.
The F-35 has more sub-systems that need more checking, updating and maintenance.
The more advanced and sophisticated the aircraft more maintenance will the aircraft require.
 

Blademaster

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Your source is IDRW, this is not a trustworthy source. Trust me, AMCA will most probably not possess any kind of TVC.

And AMCA's design if you observe is more inspired by F-35 JSF. I don't see how the AMCA Looks any way similar to F-22's design.

See this :

This is design of F-35A.
View attachment 162137

And this is latest design of AMCA :
View attachment 162141

See how the latest design of AMCA has similar wing design, similar front nose section design, similar vertical Stabilizer design and also intake design? This shows it is more inspired from F-35 than F-22.

And BTW Why do you want AMCA to have thrust vectoring control in the 1st place? It's irrelevant for it to have it and being a 5th Stealth generation fighter, it should not have it and it doesn't suit IAF's doctrine. TVC is good for only dodging missiles and WVR Dogfights. Any 5th generation fighter which is being designed to be quite Stealth will always want to avoid getting into a dogfight.
Still you need some thrust vectoring control in the 2d like the F-22 in order to pull some serious Gs without having to use enlarged fins or tails or wings to compensate and thereby increasing the RCS which we don't want. On all other points I agree with you.
 

Super Flanker

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Still you need some thrust vectoring control in the 2d like the F-22 in order to pull some serious Gs without having to use enlarged fins or tails or wings to compensate and thereby increasing the RCS which we don't want. On all other points I agree with you.
What will you do by pulling high Gs? Dodge missiles? Yes thrust vector control may be useful but instead of thrust vectoring or super manouverability we should give more emphasis on electronic warfare. Missiles like BVRs can be evaded using EW Jammers like we saw in 27th february.

Thrust vectoring will not be very helpful over time because missile technology will progress rapidly and they will become more lethal and difficult to evade even with TVC.
 

DibyaXP

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What will you do by pulling high Gs? Dodge missiles? Yes thrust vector control may be useful but instead of thrust vectoring or super manouverability we should give more emphasis on electronic warfare. Missiles like BVRs can be evaded using EW Jammers like we saw in 27th february.

Thrust vectoring will not be very helpful over time because missile technology will progress rapidly and they will become more lethal and difficult to evade even with TVC.
We gonna fight China not USA or EU for now, can china surpass west? they will but by 2060
 

Super Flanker

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We gonna fight China not USA or EU for now, can china surpass west? they will but by 2060
China will not be surpassing the west/USA any time soon in military technology. USA will stay the sole superpower for quite some time.
 

Blademaster

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I believe its 2060 but PRC can overtake economically ,
India will be the second block , who ever be it in top.
I think China is heading into a huge debt trap before then and will stagnate just like Japan did. But enough of this sidetracking.

Superflanker, sometimes you need thrust vectoring to make up for the lack of aerodynamic features on the plane in order to preserve the RCS and yet maintain the full instantaneous turning rate or sustained turning rate.
 

johnj

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Any 5th generation fighter which is being designed to be quite Stealth will always want to avoid getting into a dogfight.
Nope, except for F35. F22, Su 57, even J20 consider ccms, at the end - dog fight. In 5th plus stealth gen fighter jet warfare, dog fight & ccm is more important than bvr. That's why USAF next gen air superiority jets asap to protect b2, b21 and F35. BVR only good against 4.5minus jets. In simple- when two f22 detect each other ?
 

no smoking

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He didnt say exact word junk , but he said , F35 is maintenance heavy
Is he aware that F-22's maintenance is much worse than F-35?

and aerodynamics is bad
F-35 was never designed to be a air-superiority fighter.

only stealth is not what IAF wanted but a balanced machine. He said F22 Raptor is best jet still now , he said AMCA might not me as stealthy as raptor but going to have similar aerodynamic capabilities.
F-35 is probably the most balanced machine on the earth. When we are talking about balance, we can't just judge it between stealth and aerodynamic, we also have to consider the cost, mission requirement, etc.

If India wants a jet with similar role as F-22, the question is if Indian scientists and industrial power can produce such a jet even with downgraded stealth. At least, we know Russian and Chinese can't so far.
 

vampyrbladez

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Is he aware that F-22's maintenance is much worse than F-35?



F-35 was never designed to be a air-superiority fighter.



F-35 is probably the most balanced machine on the earth. When we are talking about balance, we can't just judge it between stealth and aerodynamic, we also have to consider the cost, mission requirement, etc.

If India wants a jet with similar role as F-22, the question is if Indian scientists and industrial power can produce such a jet even with downgraded stealth. At least, we know Russian and Chinese can't so far.
F 35 = Export Approved F 22 class fighter.

The variants outwardly look similar but have very different characteristics.

F 35A = F 16C Blk 52 + F 22 class stealth + F 18SH/Su 30M (non TVC) + 5.5 Gen Electro-Optics
F 35B = F 18SH + Harrier + F 22 class stealth + 5.5 Gen Electro-Optics
F 35C = <F 18SH + F 22 class stealth + 5.5 Gen Electro-Optics

The maneuverability of the F 35A reminds one of a non TVC Su 30.


That said the AMCA will be more in tune with what was originally envisioned for the JSF Program before the USMC insisted on a single engine to emulate Yakovlev 141's VTOL system which is superior to the Harrier.

 

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