AMCA - Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (HAL)

DibyaXP

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Its a raptor with DSI intake , they wante to have Raptor like Intake that would have added extra 180KG, instead the engine will have high distortion tolerance ,


Model shown by ADA in 2021,

F22 Raptor


I personally asked Dr. Girish Dheodhare in Aero India, he replied they studied Aerodynamics of F22 and avionics of F35 , they wanted a balance between stealth and aerodynamics , unlike F35 which is terrible in Aerodynamic performance , AMCA will excell in Aerodynamics , its a miniature and more modernized raptor and unique in its own rights. F35 to be honest is a junk
 

Super Flanker

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Its a raptor with DSI intake , they wante to have Raptor like Intake that would have added extra 180KG, instead the engine will have high distortion tolerance ,


Model shown by ADA in 2021,

F22 Raptor


I personally asked Dr. Girish Dheodhare in Aero India, he replied they studied Aerodynamics of F22 and avionics of F35 , they wanted a balance between stealth and aerodynamics , unlike F35 which is terrible in Aerodynamic performance , AMCA will excell in Aerodynamics , its a miniature and more modernized raptor and unique in its own rights. F35 to be honest is a junk
Dude, this is an old design.

Photo of the model posted by you shows the design of AMCA way before 2021. I don't know which year this model was showcased but in AERO India 2021, there was a very different model of AMCA shown.

That design was more similar to F-35. The model which was showcased in AERO India 2021 had similar wings, intake, Vertical stabilizers and nose section to that of an F-35.

Check latest photos of AMCA's design, not the old ones.
 

DibyaXP

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Dude, this is an old design.

Photo of the model posted by you shows the design of AMCA way before 2021. I don't know which year this model was showcased but in AERO India 2021, there was a very different model of AMCA shown.

That design was more similar to F-35. The model which was showcased in AERO India 2021 had similar wings, intake, Vertical stabilizers and nose section to that of an F-35.

Check latest photos of AMCA's design, not the old ones.
Dude DSI doesnt make a design like F35 , I talked with AMCA folks in 2020 , may be you are right
 

Super Flanker

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Does this any angle looks like F35? Not to me , it got Trapezoidal design like F22 Raptor.
Even GTRE latest conferance on Engine mention TVC where they wanted to collaborate with
international engine house.
The AMCA model in this photo has similar Vertical stabilizers, nose section and Intake style to that of an F-35.

Once again I am telling you, please go to google and type AMCA design Aero India 2021 and you will find Photos of the model which I am referring to, look at its design from different angles, you will realise it's more F-35 and less F-22.
 

Super Flanker

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Dude DSI doesnt make a design like F35 , I talked with AMCA folks in 2020 , may be you are right
I am talking about the overall airframe design, the latest design of AMCA is more F-35 than F-22. The earlier design of AMCA was more F-22 inspired but the newer one design is more F-35 inspired.
 

Delta Squad

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And BTW Why do you want AMCA to have thrust vectoring control in the 1st place? It's irrelevant for it to have it and being a 5th Stealth generation fighter, it should not have it and it doesn't suit IAF's doctrine. TVC is good for only dodging missiles and WVR Dogfights. Any 5th generation fighter which is being designed to be quite Stealth will always want to avoid getting into a dogfight.
Most probably the confusion of TVC came with the exhaust design. AMCA will feature circular exhaust, most probably serated, but still circular. Now, for a stealth fighter, circular exhaust dosen't do any favour as it reduces both rear radar stealth as well as IR stealth. For instance, F-22 has 2D thrust vectoring and comes with square exhaust, YF-23 didn't have thrust vectoring, and had engines embedded into the fuselage and coated with square tiles for improved IR stealth.
But F-35 needed the circular exhaust to incorporate the vertical takeoff feature, and other fifth generation aircraft with circular exhaust all have 3D TVC planned.
Now, if AMCA will not feature 3D TVC, it dosen't make any sense for sacrificing rear and IR stealth and going for circular exhausts, where they could have easily taken a YF-23 approach.
Given the fact ADA director said in interview that AMCA will have super maneuverability, especially in non stealth mode, indicates that ADA might have 3D TVC in mind. Also, a meeting last month did mention the TVC in the engine to be jointly developed.
When the whole GTRE Saffran fiasco was going on last month probably, I remember reading a report that an official had said that the new engine to be developed will feature TVC varient for AMCA and non TVC varient for Tejas Mk2.
Though unlikely AMCA Mk1 will have TVC as GE 414 most probably don't have TVC, but AMCA Mk2 most probably will.
Just stating my views, don't get offended.
 

Super Flanker

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Most probably the confusion of TVC came with the exhaust design. AMCA will feature circular exhaust, most probably serated, but still circular. Now, for a stealth fighter, circular exhaust dosen't do any favour as it reduces both rear radar stealth as well as IR stealth. For instance, F-22 has 2D thrust vectoring and comes with square exhaust, YF-23 didn't have thrust vectoring, and had engines embedded into the fuselage and coated with square tiles for improved IR stealth.
But F-35 needed the circular exhaust to incorporate the vertical takeoff feature, and other fifth generation aircraft with circular exhaust all have 3D TVC planned.
Now, if AMCA will not feature 3D TVC, it dosen't make any sense for sacrificing rear and IR stealth and going for circular exhausts, where they could have easily taken a YF-23 approach.
Given the fact ADA director said in interview that AMCA will have super maneuverability, especially in non stealth mode, indicates that ADA might have 3D TVC in mind. Also, a meeting last month did mention the TVC in the engine to be jointly developed.
When the whole GTRE Saffran fiasco was going on last month probably, I remember reading a report that an official had said that the new engine to be developed will feature TVC varient for AMCA and non TVC varient for Tejas Mk2.
Though unlikely AMCA Mk1 will have TVC as GE 414 most probably don't have TVC, but AMCA Mk2 most probably will.
Just stating my views, don't get offended.
As of now we have 4 5th generation fighters in service : F-35, F-22, SU-57 and J-20 (Not sure about JC-31). Out of these the F-22 is the only to incorporate rectangular exhaust nozzles. Rest all 5th gen planes use conventional nozzle configuration.

The F-22s rectangular nozzle design allows it to have a reduced IR signature and rear RCS but this Comes with a design compromise, the nozzle results in loss of thrust. That is why those F-119 engines have to burn a lot more fuel to produce thrust equivalent to even an SU-27 with conventional nozzle design.

So if we would use thrust vectoring in AMCA MK-2 than the nozzle will be more like SU-57/F-35 (Provided TVC will even be added)

Your views are always most welcome!
 

Super Flanker

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IR stealth is useless now adays , modern IR sensor are very sensitive , Engine needs to have IR management. Quantum Wales tech can track even F22, Rafale with QWIP was tracking F22 Raptor in IR range not in Radar.
Once a Russian SU-35 had managed to capture an American F-22A Raptor on its OLS-35 electro-optical infra-red search and track system.

To be fair, any Stealth aircraft's RCS is highest from its rear angle. Nothing much can be done about it.
 

DibyaXP

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SU57 is quite sexy ,
I think ADA must design a 4.75Gen SU30MKI replacement [Heavy Fighter] which will carry flanker DNA but more modern in Avionics , engine and use large amount of composite material in future after 2030.
 

DibyaXP

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Once a Russian SU-35 had managed to capture an American F-22A Raptor on its OLS-35 electro-optical infra-red search and track system.

To be fair, any Stealth aircraft's RCS is highest from its rear angle. Nothing much can be done about it.
I might be wrong but i think SU35 have side mounted L band radar that can detect stealth aircraft in long range.
 

Super Flanker

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F35 looks ugly , hope AMCA doesnt turn out like it , still She looks super sexy. AMCA is one of the sexiest , SU30MKI followed by Tejas MK2 but most beautiful to me is TEDBF
F-35 doesn't look ugly to me if I am being honest, its just that sometimes I find it to be "Fat" kind of, overall it's a decent design. I like the sleek look of the F-22 more and the SU-57 is probably the most gorgeous Stealth aircraft in existence.
 

Super Flanker

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I might be wrong but i think SU35 have side mounted L band radar that can detect stealth aircraft in long range.
I am not sure whether the SU-35 has such radars or not but I am pretty sure that the SU-57 has something like that. SU-57 has a pair of L band radars in it's wings.
 

Super Flanker

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DSI in it are huge ,

I like SU57 and F22 raptor they looks really good , I dont hate AMCA either , she is cute and sexy. SU57 is absolute gorgeous. I think SU57 uses fly by optics like AMCA.
Coming to DSI intake than yes they are pretty big in comparison to overall aircraft's size but they look fine from overhead and side view.

I like the design of the SU-57 more than any other 5th generation fighter. Coming to the control system of SU-57 than I don't know if it uses fly by wire or fly by optics. Will have to research more about this.
 

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