AMCA - Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (HAL)

Super Flanker

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Fan art h
So what if it's Fan art? I mean it seems obvious that AMCA will have an EOTS like the ones on J-20, F-35, also that AMCA Model which was shown behind Air Marshal Vivek Ram Chaudhari also pretty much Confirmed it. I wonder if our scientists will be able to Build a complex system like this. I always wanted to make one though.:tongue2::
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F-35_EOTS.jpeg

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Super Flanker

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seems less bulky than f35 and j20
Yeah I too had noticed that the Aircraft shape is less bulky than F-35 and J-20 but I am not a fan of the DSI intake which is showcased in this CGI Model of AMCA, the DSI is far more bulky than the ones present on the F-35 and J-20, the DSI literally looks like near semi circles on that AMCA or pretty much like half cut balls sticking out from the side of the inside of the Intake.
 

Bhartiya Sainik

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I don't see the Possibility of F-22 getting DSI(Diverterless Supersonic inlet) because I don't think so that it was designed in the that way. The F-22 Raptor is said to use a fixed, rhombohedral shaped jet intake that is combined with a serpentine intake duct. This allows for speeds just north of Mach 2 without the Actual need for a variable geometry inlet to prevent shockwave ingestion.

(Kindly refer to below diagram as it will explain in more detail about the different types of Inlets used in Modern day Aircrafts)
View attachment 131435
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View attachment 131437
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Unfortunately I cannot go into to much more detail about such a complex system. Now you say that F-22 S duct inlets are more Stealthy and result in more lower RCS than why we did we not opt for such a design in our own AMCA like how it was showcased in this model of the AMCA(refer to this picture):
View attachment 131438
There could be various reasons for this for example, the design resulted in Better Aerodynamics ,the Aircraft had satisfactorily Stealth, the Ratio of Stealth, Aerodynamic performance etc was in favourable ratio. Etc.
I didn't say that F-22 style traditional inlets with S-duct is stealthier than DSI. I said "The F-22 with S-duct has much lower RCS than F-35 with DSI & Y-duct, so DSI alone cannot decide RCS. "
DSI's primary job is to handle boudary layer air which can create turbulent airflow inside the duct.

The shape & size of inlet is crucial to handle different wavelengths of RF waves.

The following is a mockup for training or exhibition:
1642052974262.png


In a real F-22 & F-35 we don't know what's inside the duct like moving vanes or grills which control the air stream velocity & pressure & perhaps also reduce/absorb incoming bouncing radar waves. There could be RAM applied in intakes in both F-22 & F-35.

1642055894704.png

1642055915717.png

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But too much RAM & other techniques cannot be applied to an export jet

It is not about only intake & ducting.
Stealth = RAS (Radar Absorbant Structure) + RAM (Radar Absorbant Material) + EW/ECM/ESM/AESA + thermal management.
To reduce RCS we talk about angled planform shaping & avoid round surfaces. Even the round IRST like in Sukhois & MiGs was made faceted DAS & EOTS in F-35 then the bigger round DSI bump cannot be favorable & that's 1 of the reasons why RCS of F-35 (0.001 sqm) is 10 times more than F-22 (0.0001 sqm).

There are many other secret reasons also which nobody knows, F-22 still hides some secrets inside it.
Right from beginning F-22 was made ADF (Air Dominance Fighter), it was supposed to be costly due to far superior tech still secret, its export was banned & F-35 was intended for export as JSF, that's 1 more reason why F-35 had to have lower RCS than F-22.
 

Super Flanker

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I didn't say that F-22 style traditional inlets with S-duct is stealthier than DSI. I said "The F-22 with S-duct has much lower RCS than F-35 with DSI & Y-duct, so DSI alone cannot decide RCS. "
DSI's primary job is to handle boudary layer air which can create turbulent airflow inside the duct.

The shape & size of inlet is crucial to handle different wavelengths of RF waves.

The following is a mockup for training or exhibition:
View attachment 131494

In a real F-22 & F-35 we don't know what's inside the duct like moving vanes or grills which control the air stream velocity & pressure & perhaps also reduce/absorb incoming bouncing radar waves. There could be RAM applied in intakes in both F-22 & F-35.

View attachment 131509
View attachment 131510
View attachment 131512
But too much RAM & other techniques cannot be applied to an export jet

It is not about only intake & ducting.
Stealth = RAS (Radar Absorbant Structure) + RAM (Radar Absorbant Material) + EW/ECM/ESM/AESA + thermal management.
To reduce RCS we talk about angled planform shaping & avoid round surfaces. Even the round IRST like in Sukhois & MiGs was made faceted DAS & EOTS in F-35 then the bigger round DSI bump cannot be favorable & that's 1 of the reasons why RCS of F-35 (0.001 sqm) is 10 times more than F-22 (0.0001 sqm).

There are many other secret reasons also which nobody knows, F-22 still hides some secrets inside it.
Right from beginning F-22 was made ADF (Air Dominance Fighter), it was supposed to be costly due to far superior tech still secret, its export was banned & F-35 was intended for export as JSF, that's 1 more reason why F-35 had to have lower RCS than F-22.
Thanks for the detailed Explanation.
 

arnab

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They might increase the numbers but Indian airforce can't buy AMCA in huge numbers like how we have 250+ SU-30 MKIs in our fleet. 5th generation fighters are very expensive to maintain, also again there is always the possibility that Indian Airforce might increase the Numbers of AMCA MK1 to 50-60 even maybe but I absolutely don't think so that they will buy AMCA MK-1 in numbers of 100+. But Indian Airforce has said that they will buy more AMCA MK-2 When it comes. Let's see what happens, for now what we are saying and what Will happen in the future is different. IAF can always change its numbers for what it wants.
one can understand the logic of not having too many mk1s to clear assembles for mk2 later...but IAF will need a good number of airframes as well...they can always retrofit the mk1s to mk2 standard. also, even a mk1 fighter will be enugh for the J20 they have and far superior to the KFX...! so yeas IAF should not go for 100 mk1s...but the mk1 order shud be atleast 3 squadrons...if we feel that 36 rafales are not enugh...why wud 40 AMCA be enugh in a hostile 2 front war scenario?
 

Bhartiya Sainik

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Not everything in propulsion is engine , you think that fan start automatically
:facepalm:Yeah i asked without searching anything & thought the pilot will do a small prayer or wave a magic wand & then the fan will start automatically :troll: :bplease:
The moment DoD says something, most fan channels/sites start copy-pasting but very very few people explain what exactly it is.
So please let us know exactly where is PTO shaft, thanks.
 

Lonewolf

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:facepalm:Yeah i asked without searching anything & thought the pilot will do a small prayer or wave a magic wand & then the fan will start automatically :troll: :bplease:
The moment DoD says something, most fan channels/sites start copy-pasting but very very few people explain what exactly it is.
So please let us know exactly where is PTO shaft, thanks.
Motor on one side to fan on the other side , when plane is on ground you use it to power it up initially as the air through intakes is not fast enough to make fan blades move
 

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