AMCA - Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (HAL)

[Ghost hale]

Yes, it seems. It's not super stealthy & stuff... You can tell just be looking at it. Now whether they actually aimed for less or later on adjusted the target top more achievable levels is unknown.

Capability & timeline wise it'll be similar to MWF, semi-stealth (with expernal weapons) relying on EW.

It was started on with 2016 and production date have been kept at 2028 with major help from lockheed martin. After all this result seems more like disappointment. AMCA data should start pouring in from 2023 start. It will be good indication where we are heading as we have more aggressive timeline.
And without IWB not sure how were they even planning a 5th gen.

 

[IndianHawk]

Yes, it seems. It's not super stealthy & stuff... You can tell just be looking at it. Bit unclear whether they actually aimed for less or later on adjusted the target top more achievable levels like we did with AMCA, splitting it into Mark 1 & 2. Indonesia essentially pulled out & they ditched the IWB (early concept was shown with one, there was even a canarded version planned).

Capability & timeline wise it'll be similar to MWF... semi-stealth with expernal weapons, relying on EW.

They will go for iwb stealth version later probably after 2030. Once they get ready for that level of development and funding.

Right now they are content with 4.5 gen capability and semi stealth shaping and recessed weapons bay.

We are going to the same with tedbf albeit for naval domain a 4.5 gen semi stealth design now and later when necessary evolution into iwb incorporating stealth jet.

For our airforce it's parallel development of MWF and amca which is provided a very fast learning curve.

 

[IndianHawk]

It was started on with 2016 and production date have been kept at 2028 with major help from lockheed martin. After all this result seems more like disappointment. AMCA data should start pouring in from 2023 start. It will be good indication where we are heading as we have more aggressive timeline.
And without IWB not sure how were they even planning a 5th gen.

South Korean are very methodological. Look at their submarine development . They did that in 3 steps form German tech to now complete Korean submarine which they are building and exporting.

They will do the same gradual development in aerospace.
Trainer lift with Lockheed then 4.5 gen with Lockheed assistance and finally their own 5th gen bird in 3 rd step.

 

[SARTHAK]

Yes, it seems. It's not super stealthy & stuff... You can tell just be looking at it. Bit unclear whether they actually aimed for less or later on adjusted the target top more achievable levels like we did with AMCA, splitting it into Mark 1 & 2. Indonesia has essentially pulled out & they had to ditch the IWB (early concept was shown with one, there was even a canarded version planned). Originally they signed a $1.3B joint deal in 2015, but cost kept mounting.

Capability & timeline wise it'll be similar to MWF... semi-stealth with expernal weapons, relying on EW.

more similar to tedbf AF

 

[Ghost hale]

South Korean are very methodological. Look at their submarine development . They did that in 3 steps form German tech to now complete Korean submarine which they are building and exporting.

They will do the same gradual development in aerospace.
Trainer lift with Lockheed then 4.5 gen with Lockheed assistance and finally their own 5th gen bird in 3 rd step.

KF-X was either marketed wrong by korea or their media (can't say) or failed in its initial objective. I was just surprised as i missed the fact that its a 4.5 gen not 5th gen. This will surely make AMCA look better and even Indian industry much better if the desired results with AMCA is achieved on timelines.

 

[IndianHawk]

KF-X was either marketed wrong by korea or their media (can't say) or failed in its initial objective. I was just surprised as i missed the fact that its a 4.5 gen not 5th gen. This will surely make AMCA look better and even Indian industry much better if the desired results with AMCA is achieved on timelines.

India is far ahead than south korea in aerospace development there is no doubt about it.
So there is not much of a competition.

 

[Bleh]

@Ghost hale I have a bad habit of editing in stuff as I keep remembering them. So, maybe give another read. Otherwise yes, what @IndianHawk said may not be correct & too overestimating them (probably). Few prototypes mean nothing, that too they stated building in February 2019. We are way ahead of them.

What started as the ambitious KFX/IFX, its now a sad joke. They had big plans! A canarded version, a single engine version... Turkey was interested in a piece of the action... Pakis were rumoured on getting this one as a Jf-17 successor (you may have seen their 3d fanarts of this).

If I were them, I'd try to push that one as a F-16 replacement for US to join in. That's the only ray hope the project has ahead of them.

A 5th gen would be very far-fetched from the present position they've gotten themselves into. Like US has been facing, the cost factor is simply to much.

 

[Ghost hale]

@Ghost hale I have a bad habit of editing in stuff as I keep remembering them. So, maybe give another read. Otherwise yes, what @IndianHawk said may not be correct & too overestimating them (probably). Few prototypes mean nothing, that too they stated building in February 2019. We are way ahead of them.

View attachment 80153
What started as the ambitious KFX/IFX, its now a sad joke. They had big plans! A canarded version, a single engine version... Turkey was interested in a piece of the action... Pakis were rumoured on getting this one as a Jf-17 successor (you may have seen their 3d fanarts of this). View attachment 80152

If I were them, I'd try to push that one as a F-16 replacement for US to join in. That's the only ray hope the project has ahead of them.

A 5th gen would be very far-fetched from the present position they've gotten themselves into. Like US has been facing, the cost factor is simply to much.

Agreed. I knew it was multi country project which was then exited by some but because of Korea i thought money shouldn't be an issue. Lockheed martin was also involved so tech availability also seems fine. But it is definitely a downgrade if not a failure.
US won't take anything they haven't developed for sure(same reason i don't think they will go for lift), So f-16 replacement is out of picture with this.
I think they should definitely give this to pakistan so that they can claim independently developed 5th gen taiyaara under project azm that to before India as it will be better than Junk-20 and Faltu C-31.

 

[SARTHAK]

Yes, it seems. It's not super stealthy & stuff... You can tell just be looking at it. Bit unclear whether they actually aimed for less or later on adjusted the target top more achievable levels like we did with AMCA, splitting it into Mark 1 & 2. Indonesia has essentially pulled out & they had to ditch the IWB (early concept was shown with one, there was even a canarded version planned). Originally they signed a $1.3B joint deal in 2015, but cost kept mounting.

Capability & timeline wise it'll be similar to MWF... semi-stealth with expernal weapons, relying on EW.

more similar to tedbf AF

 

[Bleh]

more similar to tedbf AF

Yes, quite... The thing has a future if they can manage it well, so can't exactly be termed as a failure. Definitely can give Gripen & MWF a good competition.

Very similar that Turkish fighter they're claiming as 5th gen. And both have very simplistic design compared to the everchanging AMCA... Their hole developmental timeline has not seen so many changes that AMCA is between every Aero India

 

[SARTHAK]

Yes, quite... The thing has a future if they can manage it well, so can't exactly be termed as a failure. Definitely can give Gripen & MWF a good competition.

Very similar that Turkish fighter they're claiming as 5th gen. And both have very simplistic design compared to the everchanging AMCA... Their hole developmental timeline has not seen so many changes that AMCA is between every Aero India

i am hoping that mwf gets some good rf and ir stealth features,even if gets late i wud like to have a hybrid version of mwf+orca as tejas mk2 single engine possibly a (gripen e+),the sensor suite is already pretty good hopefully we can learn from rafale and make a spectra like ew suite low band jammers are already declared only concern is stealth prospects, I wud like dug in engines or serrated nozzle, engine blade blocker like in su57 and nose to be ogive,hoping to get a miracle(orca+mwf=tejas mk2)

 

[FalconSlayers]

KF-X was either marketed wrong by korea or their media (can't say) or failed in its initial objective. I was just surprised as i missed the fact that its a 4.5 gen not 5th gen. This will surely make AMCA look better and even Indian industry much better if the desired results with AMCA is achieved on timelines.

Yes, I’ve heard that K-FX doesn’t have an internal weapons bay, is that true? Or Koreans are planning for a K-FX Block-II for Internal Weapons bay?

 

[Ghost hale]

Yes, I’ve heard that K-FX doesn’t have an internal weapons bay, is that true? Or Koreans are planning for a K-FX Block-II for Internal Weapons bay?

No IWB and block- II with IWB not planned yet.

 

[SARTHAK]

Yes, I’ve heard that K-FX doesn’t have an internal weapons bay, is that true? Or Koreans are planning for a K-FX Block-II for Internal Weapons bay?

k-fx is stealth shaped fighter with no iwb meaning tedbf airforce version

 

[Lonewolf]

Yes, I’ve heard that K-FX doesn’t have an internal weapons bay, is that true? Or Koreans are planning for a K-FX Block-II for Internal Weapons bay?

It has three phase , in first no provision for iwb , just making airframe fly , avionics too will be quite raw , weapons too imported .
Second phase , they will refune avionics , deveolp gan based avionics , better software , will make internal arrangement for iwb and test it on prototype , this will be much of a testing phase , may not go in service .

Third phase will see a more of 5 th generation fighter , airframe maybe modified by then , iwb will be there , maybe match amca , this is to setup a domestic ecosystem

 

[FalconSlayers]

k-fx is stealth shaped fighter with no iwb meaning tedbf airforce version

So it will have a lower RCS but not significant. Then it is wrong to call it 5th gen, An IWB is an important part of 5th gen aircrafts, maybe they are planning for next block, but the design seems too simple for KF-X, like they have splitter plates for intakes, no IWB, what about its Avionics and E/W Suite?

 

[SARTHAK]

So it will have a lower RCS but not significant. Then it is wrong to call it 5th gen, An IWB is an important part of 5th gen aircrafts, maybe they are planning for next block, but the design seems too simple for KF-X, like they have splitter plates for intakes, no IWB, what about its Avionics and E/W Suite?

they cud hve weapon pods built though it will not be a full fledged 5th gen ,but a "rafale+"
intakes are serpentine so blades will not be exposed much
ew will be korean

 

[FalconSlayers]

Nose cone length has been reduced...

 

[FalconSlayers]

they cud hve weapon pods built though it will not be a full fledged 5th gen ,but a "rafale+"
intakes are serpentine so blades will not be exposed much
ew will be korean

E/W and Avionics will be GaAs based or GaN based?

 

[SARTHAK]

E/W and Avionics will be GaAs based or GaN based?

no information