AMCA - Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (HAL)

Ghost hale

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 13, 2021
Messages
400
Likes
1,077
Country flag
Yes, it seems. It's not super stealthy & stuff... You can tell just be looking at it. Now whether they actually aimed for less or later on adjusted the target top more achievable levels is unknown.

Capability & timeline wise it'll be similar to MWF, semi-stealth (with expernal weapons) relying on EW.
It was started on with 2016 and production date have been kept at 2028 with major help from lockheed martin. After all this result seems more like disappointment. AMCA data should start pouring in from 2023 start. It will be good indication where we are heading as we have more aggressive timeline.
And without IWB not sure how were they even planning a 5th gen.
 

IndianHawk

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 24, 2016
Messages
7,224
Likes
26,057
Country flag
Yes, it seems. It's not super stealthy & stuff... You can tell just be looking at it. Bit unclear whether they actually aimed for less or later on adjusted the target top more achievable levels like we did with AMCA, splitting it into Mark 1 & 2. Indonesia essentially pulled out & they ditched the IWB (early concept was shown with one, there was even a canarded version planned).

Capability & timeline wise it'll be similar to MWF... semi-stealth with expernal weapons, relying on EW.
They will go for iwb stealth version later probably after 2030. Once they get ready for that level of development and funding.

Right now they are content with 4.5 gen capability and semi stealth shaping and recessed weapons bay.

We are going to the same with tedbf albeit for naval domain a 4.5 gen semi stealth design now and later when necessary evolution into iwb incorporating stealth jet.

For our airforce it's parallel development of MWF and amca which is provided a very fast learning curve.
 

IndianHawk

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 24, 2016
Messages
7,224
Likes
26,057
Country flag
It was started on with 2016 and production date have been kept at 2028 with major help from lockheed martin. After all this result seems more like disappointment. AMCA data should start pouring in from 2023 start. It will be good indication where we are heading as we have more aggressive timeline.
And without IWB not sure how were they even planning a 5th gen.
South Korean are very methodological. Look at their submarine development . They did that in 3 steps form German tech to now complete Korean submarine which they are building and exporting.

They will do the same gradual development in aerospace.
Trainer lift with Lockheed then 4.5 gen with Lockheed assistance and finally their own 5th gen bird in 3 rd step.
 

SARTHAK

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 29, 2020
Messages
313
Likes
432
Country flag
Yes, it seems. It's not super stealthy & stuff... You can tell just be looking at it. Bit unclear whether they actually aimed for less or later on adjusted the target top more achievable levels like we did with AMCA, splitting it into Mark 1 & 2. Indonesia has essentially pulled out & they had to ditch the IWB (early concept was shown with one, there was even a canarded version planned). Originally they signed a $1.3B joint deal in 2015, but cost kept mounting.

Capability & timeline wise it'll be similar to MWF... semi-stealth with expernal weapons, relying on EW.
more similar to tedbf AF
 

Ghost hale

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 13, 2021
Messages
400
Likes
1,077
Country flag
South Korean are very methodological. Look at their submarine development . They did that in 3 steps form German tech to now complete Korean submarine which they are building and exporting.

They will do the same gradual development in aerospace.
Trainer lift with Lockheed then 4.5 gen with Lockheed assistance and finally their own 5th gen bird in 3 rd step.
KF-X was either marketed wrong by korea or their media (can't say) or failed in its initial objective. I was just surprised as i missed the fact that its a 4.5 gen not 5th gen. This will surely make AMCA look better and even Indian industry much better if the desired results with AMCA is achieved on timelines.
 

IndianHawk

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 24, 2016
Messages
7,224
Likes
26,057
Country flag
KF-X was either marketed wrong by korea or their media (can't say) or failed in its initial objective. I was just surprised as i missed the fact that its a 4.5 gen not 5th gen. This will surely make AMCA look better and even Indian industry much better if the desired results with AMCA is achieved on timelines.
India is far ahead than south korea in aerospace development there is no doubt about it.
So there is not much of a competition.
 

Bleh

Laughing member
Senior Member
Joined
Nov 23, 2017
Messages
4,935
Likes
18,505
Country flag
@Ghost hale I have a bad habit of editing in stuff as I keep remembering them. So, maybe give another read. Otherwise yes, what @IndianHawk said may not be correct & too overestimating them (probably). Few prototypes mean nothing, that too they stated building in February 2019. We are way ahead of them.

2456023D53C90FA62C.jpeg

What started as the ambitious KFX/IFX, its now a sad joke. They had big plans! A canarded version, a single engine version... Turkey was interested in a piece of the action... Pakis were rumoured on getting this one as a Jf-17 successor (you may have seen their 3d fanarts of this).
20131018220637.jpg


If I were them, I'd try to push that one as a F-16 replacement for US to join in. That's the only ray hope the project has ahead of them.

A 5th gen would be very far-fetched from the present position they've gotten themselves into. Like US has been facing, the cost factor is simply to much.
 

Ghost hale

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 13, 2021
Messages
400
Likes
1,077
Country flag
@Ghost hale I have a bad habit of editing in stuff as I keep remembering them. So, maybe give another read. Otherwise yes, what @IndianHawk said may not be correct & too overestimating them (probably). Few prototypes mean nothing, that too they stated building in February 2019. We are way ahead of them.

View attachment 80153
What started as the ambitious KFX/IFX, its now a sad joke. They had big plans! A canarded version, a single engine version... Turkey was interested in a piece of the action... Pakis were rumoured on getting this one as a Jf-17 successor (you may have seen their 3d fanarts of this). View attachment 80152

If I were them, I'd try to push that one as a F-16 replacement for US to join in. That's the only ray hope the project has ahead of them.

A 5th gen would be very far-fetched from the present position they've gotten themselves into. Like US has been facing, the cost factor is simply to much.
Agreed. I knew it was multi country project which was then exited by some but because of Korea i thought money shouldn't be an issue. Lockheed martin was also involved so tech availability also seems fine. But it is definitely a downgrade if not a failure.
US won't take anything they haven't developed for sure(same reason i don't think they will go for lift), So f-16 replacement is out of picture with this.
I think they should definitely give this to pakistan so that they can claim independently developed 5th gen taiyaara under project azm that to before India as it will be better than Junk-20 and Faltu C-31.
 

SARTHAK

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 29, 2020
Messages
313
Likes
432
Country flag
Yes, it seems. It's not super stealthy & stuff... You can tell just be looking at it. Bit unclear whether they actually aimed for less or later on adjusted the target top more achievable levels like we did with AMCA, splitting it into Mark 1 & 2. Indonesia has essentially pulled out & they had to ditch the IWB (early concept was shown with one, there was even a canarded version planned). Originally they signed a $1.3B joint deal in 2015, but cost kept mounting.

Capability & timeline wise it'll be similar to MWF... semi-stealth with expernal weapons, relying on EW.
more similar to tedbf AF
 

Bleh

Laughing member
Senior Member
Joined
Nov 23, 2017
Messages
4,935
Likes
18,505
Country flag
more similar to tedbf AF
Yes, quite... The thing has a future if they can manage it well, so can't exactly be termed as a failure. Definitely can give Gripen & MWF a good competition.

Very similar that Turkish fighter they're claiming as 5th gen. And both have very simplistic design compared to the everchanging AMCA... Their hole developmental timeline has not seen so many changes that AMCA is between every Aero India 😅
 
Last edited:

SARTHAK

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 29, 2020
Messages
313
Likes
432
Country flag
Yes, quite... The thing has a future if they can manage it well, so can't exactly be termed as a failure. Definitely can give Gripen & MWF a good competition.

Very similar that Turkish fighter they're claiming as 5th gen. And both have very simplistic design compared to the everchanging AMCA... Their hole developmental timeline has not seen so many changes that AMCA is between every Aero India 😅
i am hoping that mwf gets some good rf and ir stealth features,even if gets late i wud like to have a hybrid version of mwf+orca as tejas mk2 single engine possibly a (gripen e+),the sensor suite is already pretty good hopefully we can learn from rafale and make a spectra like ew suite low band jammers are already declared only concern is stealth prospects, I wud like dug in engines or serrated nozzle, engine blade blocker like in su57 and nose to be ogive,hoping to get a miracle(orca+mwf=tejas mk2)
 

FalconSlayers

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 14, 2020
Messages
6,087
Likes
20,659
Country flag
KF-X was either marketed wrong by korea or their media (can't say) or failed in its initial objective. I was just surprised as i missed the fact that its a 4.5 gen not 5th gen. This will surely make AMCA look better and even Indian industry much better if the desired results with AMCA is achieved on timelines.
Yes, I’ve heard that K-FX doesn’t have an internal weapons bay, is that true? Or Koreans are planning for a K-FX Block-II for Internal Weapons bay?
 

Lonewolf

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 26, 2021
Messages
1,952
Likes
5,455
Country flag
Yes, I’ve heard that K-FX doesn’t have an internal weapons bay, is that true? Or Koreans are planning for a K-FX Block-II for Internal Weapons bay?
It has three phase , in first no provision for iwb , just making airframe fly , avionics too will be quite raw , weapons too imported .
Second phase , they will refune avionics , deveolp gan based avionics , better software , will make internal arrangement for iwb and test it on prototype , this will be much of a testing phase , may not go in service .

Third phase will see a more of 5 th generation fighter , airframe maybe modified by then , iwb will be there , maybe match amca , this is to setup a domestic ecosystem
 

FalconSlayers

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 14, 2020
Messages
6,087
Likes
20,659
Country flag
k-fx is stealth shaped fighter with no iwb meaning tedbf airforce version
So it will have a lower RCS but not significant. Then it is wrong to call it 5th gen, An IWB is an important part of 5th gen aircrafts, maybe they are planning for next block, but the design seems too simple for KF-X, like they have splitter plates for intakes, no IWB, what about its Avionics and E/W Suite?
 

SARTHAK

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 29, 2020
Messages
313
Likes
432
Country flag
So it will have a lower RCS but not significant. Then it is wrong to call it 5th gen, An IWB is an important part of 5th gen aircrafts, maybe they are planning for next block, but the design seems too simple for KF-X, like they have splitter plates for intakes, no IWB, what about its Avionics and E/W Suite?
they cud hve weapon pods built though it will not be a full fledged 5th gen ,but a "rafale+"
intakes are serpentine so blades will not be exposed much
ew will be korean
 

FalconSlayers

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 14, 2020
Messages
6,087
Likes
20,659
Country flag
they cud hve weapon pods built though it will not be a full fledged 5th gen ,but a "rafale+"
intakes are serpentine so blades will not be exposed much
ew will be korean
E/W and Avionics will be GaAs based or GaN based?
 

Latest Replies

Global Defence

New threads

Articles

Top