AMCA - Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (HAL)

[FalconSlayers]

Orders won't be in such a huge numbers for any, currently IAF wants to operate 83LCA,and 100 mk2 in the 2020s followed by 150 AMCA...

Airforce chief said they are committed to buy 200 MWF, I am talking about orders not operational ones and the existing aircraft For both airforces.

 

[Killbot]

PAF will be peanuts in front of IAF by 2030

1. IAF (operational ones and orders only, some are expected orders)

270 Super Sukhoi Su-30 MKI
88 Mikoyan Gurevich MiG-29UPG
50 Mirage-2000 Upgraded
40 Tejas MK1UPG
83 Tejas MK1A
200 Tejas MK2 MWF
100 ORCA (Unconfirmed order, expectations)
150 AMCA
36 Rafale F3R
114 Rafale F4
22 AH-64E Apache
65 LCH
10 MQ-9 Reaper Predator-B
100 Avenger Predator-C
100 Rustom-II (Unconfirmed order, expectations)
150 Ghatak UCAV (Unconfirmed order, expectations)

2. PAF (Operational ones and Orders Only, some might be expected ones)

74 F-16 Block 52 (half of them lacking MLU)
150 Chengdu J-7 (MiG-21 cheap chinese copy)
87 Mirage-III (very old)
92 Mirage-5 (Very old)
50 JF-17 Block-1 (3rd generation)
70 JF-17 Block-2 (4th generation comparable to Tejas MK1)
50 JF-17 Block-3 (4.5 generation comparable to Tejas MK1A)(Orders confirmed)
12 NESCOM Burraq UCAV (A toy carrying ATGMs)
50 WingLoong-II (Cheap chinese copy of MQ-9 Reaper Predator-B)

None of the JF-17s have on board oxygen generation system, which means they will have to refill oxygen in ground to fly even if they have sufficient fuel left.

Obsolete fleet except JF-17 Block-3 (and Block-2 and F-16 to some extent).

afaik MWF, ORCA, AMCA etc. will begin production in late 2020s and will be operationally inducted only in large numbers in mid 2030s.

 

[Steven Rogers]

Airforce chief said they are committed to buy 200 MWF, I am talking about orders not operational ones and the existing aircraft For both airforces.

As of now I'm only seeing for 100 inductions(maybe initial)after the 83 lot of the mk1A...

 

[FalconSlayers]

afaik MWF, ORCA, AMCA etc. will begin production in late 2020s and will be operationally inducted only in large numbers in mid 2030s.

I am talking about orders of both airforces

 

[Paras.Sharma]

PAF will be peanuts in front of IAF by 2030

1. IAF (operational ones and orders only, some are expected orders)

270 Super Sukhoi Su-30 MKI
88 Mikoyan Gurevich MiG-29UPG
50 Mirage-2000 Upgraded
40 Tejas MK1UPG
83 Tejas MK1A
200 Tejas MK2 MWF
100 ORCA (Unconfirmed order, expectations)
150 AMCA
36 Rafale F3R
114 Rafale F4
22 AH-64E Apache
65 LCH
10 MQ-9 Reaper Predator-B
100 Avenger Predator-C
100 Rustom-II (Unconfirmed order, expectations)
150 Ghatak UCAV (Unconfirmed order, expectations)

2. PAF (Operational ones and Orders Only, some might be expected ones)

74 F-16 Block 52 (half of them lacking MLU)
150 Chengdu J-7 (MiG-21 cheap chinese copy)
87 Mirage-III (very old)
92 Mirage-5 (Very old)
50 JF-17 Block-1 (3rd generation)
70 JF-17 Block-2 (4th generation comparable to Tejas MK1)
50 JF-17 Block-3 (4.5 generation comparable to Tejas MK1A)(Orders confirmed)
12 NESCOM Burraq UCAV (A toy carrying ATGMs)
50 WingLoong-II (Cheap chinese copy of MQ-9 Reaper Predator-B)

None of the JF-17s have on board oxygen generation system, which means they will have to refill oxygen in ground to fly even if they have sufficient fuel left.

Obsolete fleet except JF-17 Block-3 (and Block-2 and F-16 to some extent).

IAF numbers look non realistic to me...
We need magic wand to have 200 MWF, 100 ORCA (not yet confirmed it will depend on how TEDBF goes) & 150 AMCA... we do not have enough production capacity as well as funds to make it happen by 2030..
114 Rafale F4 is highly unlikely.. & not really needed once we have MWF, AMCA & possibly ORCA...

 

[FalconSlayers]

IAF numbers look non realistic to me...
We need magic wand to have 200 MWF, 100 ORCA (not yet confirmed it will depend on how TEDBF goes) & 150 AMCA... we do not have enough production capacity as well as funds to make it happen by 2030..
114 Rafale F4 is highly unlikely.. & not really needed once we have MWF, AMCA & possibly ORCA...

MRFA can’t be ignored, it will be helpful in tonnes of ways

 

[Paras.Sharma]

MRFA can’t be ignored, it will be helpful in tonnes of ways

Would you care to elaborate why it can't be ignored once we have MWF, AMCA & ORAC?

 

[FalconSlayers]

Would you care to elaborate why it can't be ignored once we have MWF, AMCA & ORAC?

It is not just the number of aircraft that we get, a new production line will be setup that will be used in future indigenous aircraft assembly after MRFA production completes, ToT of advance systems and subsystems, more aircraft will be inducted side by side with MK1A and MWF and ORCA, and most important, the winner of the contract will have to help in AMCA project so it will be very crucial.

by MWF/ORCA you can get only numbers but not a new production line, Advance technology gain and tech support from leaders in aviation industry.

IAF will be buying MWF and ORCA, don’t worry .

 

[AZTEC]

We became 2nd because Saudi Arabia increased the imports, not because we decreased it.

Yes, the Saudis did increase arms imports during the Arab Springs protests, but India also moved forward.

This may sound politically biased, but I believe it’s actually quite accurate.

Modi has started genuine long-lasting indigenisation of military hardware. He was slow during his first tenure but he speeded things up during his second tenure.

Even respected analysts like Bharat Karnad, who regularly criticises Modi, have a similar opinion. Please read this for more insights.

Genuine indigenization starting, now salute the two heroes

General Bipin Rawat & Lt Gen Subrata Saha Consistent pressure to end arms imports from small select quarters (like this blog) has worked. Defence Minister Rajnath Singh this morning announced a…

bharatkarnad.com

 

[Killbot]

IAF numbers look non realistic to me...
We need magic wand to have 200 MWF, 100 ORCA (not yet confirmed it will depend on how TEDBF goes) & 150 AMCA... we do not have enough production capacity as well as funds to make it happen by 2030..
114 Rafale F4 is highly unlikely.. & not really needed once we have MWF, AMCA & possibly ORCA...

It'll be either ORCA or Rafales. But it looks like 36 more are coming soon. IAF hasn't issued any statement on ORCA.

 

[FalconSlayers]

Any update on EOTS for AMCA?

Does EOTS replace conventional targeting pods like litening?
And does EOTS and IRST are installed on an FGFA together?

 

[FalconSlayers]

It'll be either ORCA or Rafales. But it looks like 36 more are coming soon. IAF hasn't issued any statement on ORCA.

ORCA will be AF version of IN’s TEDBF.

 

[Dessert Storm]

Dosen't IN need 5th Gen carrier based fighters by mid 30s? If no, then it's a huge capability gap they are looking at. If yes, then, it seems like it won't be an indigenous effort, because of following reasons:
1. AMCA is being developed as Airforce only.
2. TEDBF would be 4.5+ Gen max.
3. IN dosen't have a budget to start a dedicated 5th Gen Naval Fighter Program.
So what are the solutions?

 

[Killbot]

Dosen't IN need 5th Gen carrier based fighters by mid 30s? If no, then it's a huge capability gap they are looking at. If yes, then, it seems like it won't be an indigenous effort, because of following reasons:
1. AMCA is being developed as Airforce only.
2. TEDBF would be 4.5+ Gen max.
3. IN dosen't have a budget to start a dedicated 5th Gen Naval Fighter Program.
So what are the solutions?

For 5th gen only option right now is F35B

 

[Steven Rogers]

Dosen't IN need 5th Gen carrier based fighters by mid 30s? If no, then it's a huge capability gap they are looking at. If yes, then, it seems like it won't be an indigenous effort, because of following reasons:
1. AMCA is being developed as Airforce only.
2. TEDBF would be 4.5+ Gen max.
3. IN dosen't have a budget to start a dedicated 5th Gen Naval Fighter Program.
So what are the solutions?

Unless their is a change in the posture of the central gov and india becomes power hungry,and plans to project power far from its shores, currently our whole doctrine about the carriers is operation in the indian controlled ocean and that's it...

 

[Dessert Storm]

Unless their is a change in the posture of the central gov and india becomes power hungry,and plans to project power far from its shores, currently our whole doctrine about the carriers is operation in the indian controlled ocean and that's it...

Does that mean 4.5 gen fighters are sufficient to project power in the IOR? given that the Chinese would be operating 5.5 backed by unmanned wingman + swarms by 2035.

 

[Dessert Storm]

For 5th gen only option right now is F35B

Yep. Presuming the S400 Vs F35 dies down.

 

[Steven Rogers]

Does that mean 4.5 gen fighters are sufficient to project power in the IOR? given that the Chinese would be operating 5.5 backed by unmanned wingman + swarms by 2035.

More than sufficient since indian airforce will also be fielding its aircraft to deter china and Pakistan...

 

[FalconSlayers]

Dosen't IN need 5th Gen carrier based fighters by mid 30s? If no, then it's a huge capability gap they are looking at. If yes, then, it seems like it won't be an indigenous effort, because of following reasons:
1. AMCA is being developed as Airforce only.
2. TEDBF would be 4.5+ Gen max.
3. IN dosen't have a budget to start a dedicated 5th Gen Naval Fighter Program.
So what are the solutions?

F-35B for INS Vishal (IAC-2) and 4 LHDs.

 

[FalconSlayers]

Yep. Presuming the S400 Vs F35 dies down.

S400 will be used by IAF, and F-3BB by Indian Navy is good option and S400 controversy won’t happen as it will be used by Navy not by IAF which uses S400 plus Pakistan operates F-16s and Ive heard there are americans on ground in porkistani bases checking the use of their F-16s so America may do the same with us, check our F-35B usage so that it isn’t used against Indian S400s during practices and exercises.

this S400 drama by US was to demand more (make us buy american 4.5 gen jets with excuse that we bought S400) , now they want us to first operate American 4.5 gen jet to get F-35 which is possible...

...coz the all out winner of the 57 Carrier Borne aircraft would definitely be F/A-18E Super Hornet Block-III so for IAC-2 INS Vishal and for 4 LHDs, the Indian Navy is eligible to buy F-35C for IAC-2 INS Vishal and F-35B STOVL for Landing Helicopter Docks (LHD) as it will buy 57 F/A-18E Super Hornet Block-IIIs making the way clear for Indian Navy to buy F-35s.

Plus USA Would definitely want India to buy the F-35s as the program cost has risen and it needs costumers to reduce the price of the jet as there aren’t enough orders for the F-35 to make it profitable so it is expensive, plus seeing Chinese Aggression in Indian Ocean where USA’s most important Diego Garcia base is situated and IOR has world trade networks passing, USA would want Indian Navy as an ally for joint operations under COMCASA and BECA making interoperability easier as Indian Navy’s primary enemy is PLAN, so obviously an American jet (or any western) will be used by Indian navy for joint operations F/A-18E Super Hornet Block-IIIs and F-35s as PLAN (Chinese Navy) is making a carrier borne version of FC-31 or J-31 5th Gen stealth Aircraft.

what are your thoughts guys?

turkey was sanctioned coz under erdogan turkey became a rogue nation and USA knows that even if Turkey would have bought F-35s then Russia would deploy its S400 radars near turkish border to do what america doesn’t want to happen, after all America wants India to be a counter Balance in South Asia, Indian Ocean and Indo Pacific as an Ally of USA .