AMCA - Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (HAL)

ARVION

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Iaf wants 3d tvc in amca..so,stealth nozzle not possible
Well yes but if they wanted a full 3 D TVC's they could have put the engine layout's similar's to the Russian's jet's an not like f 22
 

ARVION

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Stealth nozzles may add massively to its cost,even US limit its f22 production
Actually it is not cost but it reduces the engine thrust by 15 to 20 percentages and is not suitable for 3D TVC's
 

Aniruddha Mulay

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View attachment 51900

I hope the prototype or for that matter production AMCA doesn't look like the mock up. The way the engines are exposed doesn't look stealthy to me. Even if we don't have the stealth signature as much as F-22, we still must strive towards <0.1m2 RCS. Otherwise what's the point of building a stealth aircraft. We might as well build a 4.5++ generation jet.
This scale model isn't AMCA, it is HAL FGFA, basically an Indian derivative of Sukhoi Su-57.
It was dropped as IAF was unhappy with the stealthiness of Su-57 in the first place.
Regarding AMCA, all it's scale model features serpentine air intakes to increase it's stealth characteristics.
Cannot say the same for it's exhausts as only have seen normal exhaust outlets on the AMCA scale modeks, but that can be sorted out by fitting sawtooth nozzles and still retaining 3D TVC like the Product 30 engine which will power Su-57 in the future.

images - 2020-07-04T160513.972.jpeg
 

ARVION

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This scale model isn't AMCA, it is HAL FGFA, basically an Indian derivative of Sukhoi Su-57.
It was dropped as IAF was unhappy with the stealthiness of Su-57 in the first place.
Regarding AMCA, all it's scale model features serpentine air intakes to increase it's stealth characteristics.
Cannot say the same for it's exhausts as only have seen normal exhaust outlets on the AMCA scale modeks, but that can be sorted out by fitting sawtooth nozzles and still retaining 3D TVC like the Product 30 engine which will power Su-57 in the future.

View attachment 51981
I think we should avoid the DSI on AMCA's at all cost's

The biggest problem for the J-20 to be further upgraded is the lateness of the WS-15. We've heard nothing out of the rumor mill of late, and we have so-and-so aircraft engine manufacturer declaring they'll build around 5 WS-15 in the 2025 to 2030 timeframe, which is way too slow.

One big issue is the sizing of the J-20's current inlets. The airflow under the present DSI system is adequate for an Al-31 / WS-10X classed engine, but the airflow is insufficient for a F135 / WS-15 class engine.

The easy solution is simply to adjust the DSI; i.e, reduce the size of the bumps (and possibly increase their length) to accommodate the greater airflow needed, but an alternative solution would be to enlarge the inlets, creating greater body space and potential for the engines to be shifted to enlarge the weapons bay.

The measurements of the J-20 inlets are roughly the same, perhaps a bit larger, than on the Su-27 series for the Al-31 engines. It's a bit of a pity, to an extent, since larger inlets would have guaranteed better high-altitude / high-speed airflow, sufficient to allow the J-20 to have at least sustainment (requires afterburners to break Mach barrier, but can supercruise around Mach 1.3 without afterburners) supercruise. But that'd compromise low-altitude maneuverability as you'd end up with spillage drag from overflowing the inlets
 

scatterStorm

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I think we should avoid the DSI on AMCA's at all cost's

The biggest problem for the J-20 to be further upgraded is the lateness of the WS-15. We've heard nothing out of the rumor mill of late, and we have so-and-so aircraft engine manufacturer declaring they'll build around 5 WS-15 in the 2025 to 2030 timeframe, which is way too slow.

One big issue is the sizing of the J-20's current inlets. The airflow under the present DSI system is adequate for an Al-31 / WS-10X classed engine, but the airflow is insufficient for a F135 / WS-15 class engine.

The easy solution is simply to adjust the DSI; i.e, reduce the size of the bumps (and possibly increase their length) to accommodate the greater airflow needed, but an alternative solution would be to enlarge the inlets, creating greater body space and potential for the engines to be shifted to enlarge the weapons bay.

The measurements of the J-20 inlets are roughly the same, perhaps a bit larger, than on the Su-27 series for the Al-31 engines. It's a bit of a pity, to an extent, since larger inlets would have guaranteed better high-altitude / high-speed airflow, sufficient to allow the J-20 to have at least sustainment (requires afterburners to break Mach barrier, but can supercruise around Mach 1.3 without afterburners) supercruise. But that'd compromise low-altitude maneuverability as you'd end up with spillage drag from overflowing the inlets
J20 is a long endurance LO fighter bomber. That huge thing was made to intraduct enemy airspace with PL15s essentially not allowing force push of air superiority fighters, and support aircrafts like awacs and fuel tankers, by simply firing a long range A2A missiles. Its nez is questionable though.
 

fire starter

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I think we should avoid the DSI on AMCA's at all cost's

The biggest problem for the J-20 to be further upgraded is the lateness of the WS-15. We've heard nothing out of the rumor mill of late, and we have so-and-so aircraft engine manufacturer declaring they'll build around 5 WS-15 in the 2025 to 2030 timeframe, which is way too slow.

One big issue is the sizing of the J-20's current inlets. The airflow under the present DSI system is adequate for an Al-31 / WS-10X classed engine, but the airflow is insufficient for a F135 / WS-15 class engine.

The easy solution is simply to adjust the DSI; i.e, reduce the size of the bumps (and possibly increase their length) to accommodate the greater airflow needed, but an alternative solution would be to enlarge the inlets, creating greater body space and potential for the engines to be shifted to enlarge the weapons bay.

The measurements of the J-20 inlets are roughly the same, perhaps a bit larger, than on the Su-27 series for the Al-31 engines. It's a bit of a pity, to an extent, since larger inlets would have guaranteed better high-altitude / high-speed airflow, sufficient to allow the J-20 to have at least sustainment (requires afterburners to break Mach barrier, but can supercruise around Mach 1.3 without afterburners) supercruise. But that'd compromise low-altitude maneuverability as you'd end up with spillage drag from overflowing the inlets
so for DSI intakes we need to final the engine first.
 

ARVION

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so for DSI intakes we need to final the engine first.
But we have or design the intake its size its overlap length wide everything properly and I think so that if we go for the DSI in AMCA we have to redesigned the whole intake again at least most parts of it's
 

IndianHawk

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so for DSI intakes we need to final the engine first.
F414 is final for prototypes and mk1 batch .
Intake can be adjusted for amca mk2 when 110kn engine is available.

But mk1 doesn't need that. Even with just f414 amca can still have rafale type limited supercruise .

As f414 has 20kn more dry thrust compared to rafale. And amca is Targeting same weight class for mk1.

And even if it doesn't have supercruise for mk1 it will still be very stealthy with internet weaponry / more internal fuel and long range sfdr missiles + very advanced sensor suit including passive sensors.

It will be leagues ahead of rafale even without supercruise or stealth engine claddings.
 

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