Alexander the Great Invades India

maomao

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Very good thread with very interesting information. This comes to show how very differents ancient cultures managed to meet and exchange values. Of course there were wars but also something good should have definitely come out, which hopefully is a resulting mutual respect from both nations (Hellas and India) to each other.

Regards to all members here and keep posting interesting articles!
Alexander was a Great King (I think half-Macedonian), and had compassion for others, though business of war means deaths and killings, still compared to many other invading hordes he had far more Class!
 
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theevian100

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Alexander was a Great King (I think half-Macedonian), and had compassion for others, though business of war means deaths and killings, still compared to many other invading hordes he had far more Class!
You are right, from his father's side he was from the Macedon kingdom and from his mother's side from the Epirus kingdom.
 
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http://indiafirsthand.com/2010/05/15/alexander-the-great-and-chandragupta-maurya/

Alexander the Great and Chandragupta Maurya

The story of Alexander the Great is very familiar to most Indians (at least we think we do). We are taught in history classes that Alexander invaded India in 326 BCE. He fought a fierce battle with King Porus (battle of the Hydaspes River) in modern day Pakistan. Porus was defeated but Alexander spared his life and allowed him to rule the area under his name. Alexander then reached the Beas River in Himachal Pradesh and decided to turn back after his army started revolting (many people in the ancient world including the Greeks also believed that India was the end of the world and it would not make sense to keep advancing).

As Alexander started his long journey back to Macedonia he awarded most of the lands captured by him to various Satraps (Persian name for governors). Over the course of time many of these Satraps became emperors controlling large tracks of land themselves. Unfortunately very little is taught in Indian schools about these satraps appointed by Alexander or the lasting legacy that they left on the long history of India.

Indian history teaches that the Mauryan Empire came into existence immediately after Alexander's arrival in northwestern India. Chandragupta Maurya (340 BCE to 298 BCE) is credited with founding the Maurya Empire and establishing the first "Indian" empire by defeating the Greek Satraps. How do we explain such a major Indian empire coming into existence just 15 years after Alexander's arrival at the Beas River?

In Greek and Latin Chandragupta Maurya is known as Sandrokottos or Androcottus. Very little is known about him or his lineage. Some Indian historians claim that he is the illegitimate child born to a Nanda prince and a maid. Others claim that he was raised by peacock tamers. But history is murky. The dates attributed to reign of Chandragupta Maurya are not set in stone and that is what makes his story very interesting.

Noted Indian historians like Dr. Ranjit Pal (Ph.D from IIT Kharagpur and life member of "Indian Society for Greek and Roman Studies") are now beginning to make a compelling case about revising the history of India during the time of Alexander (I recommend reading his book "Non-Jonesian Indology and Alexander). The main area of contention is the location of the city of Pataliputra (which is mentioned in the classic work by Greek writer Megasthenes called Indica).

Sir William Jones (1746 – 1794) was the founder of the Asiatic Society and one of the first individuals to suggest an existence of a group of languages now known as Indo-European languages (he wrote a book called "The Sanscrit Language" in 1786 in which he suggested that Sanskrit, Greek and Latin had a common root which we now know to be true). But he also made a claim that Pataliputra (Palibothra) is Patna (Bihar). This effectively placed Alexander, Chandragupta Maurya and Ashoka in Eastern India. This is called the "Jonesian Theory" and is widely accepted as a fact in India and elsewhere.

But many Indians would be surprised to learn that this theory is based on very thin evidence. Till date no relic of any Mauryan King including the great Ashoka or the Greeks has been found in Patna. This is true for the Nanda kings who the Mauryans supposedly captured. So where were the Mauryans actually ruling and who is Chandragupta Maurya?

Dr. Ranjit Pal argues that Palibothra of Megasthenes is not Patna of Bihar but Patali (near the city of Kerman in Iran). The names of many Indian cities can also be found in other countries and names like Patali, Konarak, and Salem are good examples (it would be a mistake to assume that these Indian cities are older. It is more likely that Patali (Iran) is much older than Patna (India). The name Patel which is popular among people in Gujarat is likely related to Patali. Gujarat is part of Western India and close to Iran where Patali is).

So if Megasthenes was talking about Patali in Iran and not in India then that would mean that Alexander never visited India that we know today. Instead of Chandragupta Maurya setting up the Mauryan Empire following Alexander's retreat there is evidence to show that Chandragupta was a contemporary of Alexander and fought and lost a major battle with Alexander in Patali. This will mean that the Mauryan Empire was mostly an empire that existed in Northwestern India (including Pakistan, Afghanistan and Iran) and probably did not exist in modern day Central and Eastern India (which could be the reason why the archeological evidence is missing).

After capturing Taksila (city in Pakistan), Alexander left the city under the control of one of his Satraps known as Orontobates (some accounts indicate that Orontobates was a Persian. Alexander's army just like most armies in the world today had soldiers and generals from lands that they captured). Orontobates was also known as Tridates. He later on assumed the name of Sasigupta (known in Greek as Sasicottos).

Sashi and Chandra means moon in Sanskrit. Many historians now believe that Orontobates a.k.a. Sasigupta is none other than Chandragupta Maurya (this explains why there is very little information in the Indian context as to who Chandragupta was before he became emperor of "India"). This Persian was an important member of Alexander's conquests. Diodorus (ancient Greek historian) indicates that it was Tridates who handed the Persian treasury over to the Greeks after Alexander defeated the Persian Empire led by King Darius III.

Why did Chandragupta revolt against his longtime friend Alexander? Did he secretly continue to resent the defeat of the Persians by the Greeks under Alexander after all these years? Did he participate with other Persians in Alexander's army to poison and kill their leader? If you believe in the ancient Sanskrit drama Mudrarakshasa the answer is a resounding yes.
 

S.A.T.A

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Ranjit pal is fixated on identifying ancient India in present day Iran,he goes further and places Gautama Buddha's place of birth in Persia and traces his ancestry to the northern Scythian tribes( happily forgetting that the sakas of central Asian steppes ad Sakas of Madhyadesha are complete independent of one another)

Greek and Roman historians while quoting Megasthenes for their history of Alexander of Macedonia,also clearly refer to Palimbothra(Pataliputa)as the capital of the kingdom of Gangaridai,which they state existed upon the banks of river Ganges.....I dont think we have such geographical occurrences in Persia.The evidence and inferences Pal makes is more thinner that of William Jones and Cunningham's........
 

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http://indiafirsthand.com/2010/05/15/alexander-the-great-and-chandragupta-maurya/
But many Indians would be surprised to learn that this theory is based on very thin evidence. Till date no relic of any Mauryan King including the great Ashoka or the Greeks has been found in Patna.
This is wrong. Mauryan archaeolgical findings are not as widespread as those of later eras, but they still exist in considerable quantity, including in Patna itself.

For example, this Mauryan hall pillar, from the Kumhrar remains of ancient Pataliputra, in Patna:



This will mean that the Mauryan Empire was mostly an empire that existed in Northwestern India (including Pakistan, Afghanistan and Iran) and probably did not exist in modern day Central and Eastern India (which could be the reason why the archeological evidence is missing).
Someone tell this joker that the highest concentration of Ashokan relics are found in south Andhra Pradesh, not in Northwest India, and definitely not in Iran :emot15:
 
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this is why i posted this article i had never heard this before or associations made like this.
 

KS

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Why are we, as a people, so hung up on our alleged genetic links with Europeans? Is it a legacy of colonialism or is it something that predates even that? There is so much literature on this particular, very narrow topic that it seems to overshadow everything else in terms of volume of discussion.
On a lighter note - we South Indians atleast have no such thinkings. ;)
 

sesha_maruthi27

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One of the great relics in the form of a beautiful building is still erect in INDIA and it is the well know "TEJO MAHALAYA", which was built at the time of the MAURYAN EMPIRE..........
 

Shaitan

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english


 
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johnee

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The Spinning of a Legend
Alexander the Great, or the Merely Mediocre
by Kamesh Aiyer

Many years ago I came across a comment in a Usenet posting (to those who don't remember Usenet, it was the blog of the pre-web world), that said that there was no proof that Alexander won any victories in India and that it might be more appropriate to call him 'Alexander the Merely Mediocre'.

The comment amused and intrigued me and much later I had an opportunity to read Alexander's biography by Plutarch. I was surprised to find out that Plutarch wrote his biography over two hundred years after Alexander's death using oral legends as his source. It is possible that he may also have had access to a personal diary kept by Alexander's physician, but that is about it. Plutarch wrote the biography of Alexander as part of a series of biographies that contrasted the different styles of great Greek leaders, and in his view, Alexander was possibly the greatest of the greats, flawed only by youthful indiscretions. But otherwise, the tale came from legends spread by Alexander's friends after he came back from India and died.

So the story of how Alexander met and defeated the Puru king ('Porus' to the Greeks) and released him because Puru asked to be 'treated like a king' in defeat did not come from any documented source. It was a legend.

The story, then, of Alexander's triumphant march into India, finally only giving up at the urging of his soldiers who were tired after years of fighting and who wanted to return to their loved ones (in Persia?); the odyssey down the Indus, defeating various kingdoms but sustaining a deadly wound; and, finally splitting his army in two so that they would have a better chance of returning with the news in case of further conflicts; returning with a fraction of his army to the seat of his empire in Persepolis and his death from his wounds; all based on legend. No documents, no sources, just myth.

So did Alexander really venture successfully into India and turn back at the urging of his men? Or was it all spin?

I've searched what I can access of Usenet now and looked elsewhere for any follow-up to the original comment. I did not find any, so I thought I should follow up, if only with a comment on Boloji!

Alexander's defeat of the Persian empire and his victory over Egypt are well documented by non-Greek sources. So, I am not saying anything about these. After Alexander's death the empire was divided into three, corresponding roughly to Greater Greece, Egypt, and Greater Persia, with tributaries to the east commanded by generals, such as Seleucus. No lands east of the Indus were part of this division; and subsequently, under the Mauryas, an Indian empire extended all the way into modern Afghanistan (ancient Gandhara) and modern Baluchistan (ancient Gedrosia). So Alexander did not even leave behind successors who would acknowledge his rule.

So what exactly happened to Alexander in India?

Supposedly, Alexander first met some resistance from minor kingdoms in the Northwest, possibly from around Swat. He defeated these rulers. Then he met Ambi of Taxila who welcomed him as a fellow ruler, agreed to be his vassal, and offered him safe transit to the east. Then Alexander laid siege to a city and commited a crime against Athena by promising a safe conduct to mercenaries defending the city and massacring them after they left the city ' Plutarch believes that the withdrawal of Athena's blessing was the reason why he could not complete his victories in India.

Then Alexander crosses the Indus into the Punjab and somewhere near modern-day Delhi, perhaps even in the historic battlefields of Panipat or Kurukshetra, he fought Porus and Porus lost. There is a story about how the Indian elephant brigade was winning the day when by cleverly attacking Porus' elephant, the Greeks managed to un-elephant Porus, and the elephants in disarry retreated rough-shod over their own troops.

Porus is captured and brought to Alexander in chains. Alexander looks at the tall (supposedly 6 cubits) Porus and asks him how he wanted to be treated. Porus replied, 'Like a king' ' his arrogance and pride aroused Alexander's admiration.

Promptly, Alexander released Porus, agreed to be his friend, restored his lost kingdom to him, and added to it lands that were part of Ambi's Taxila.

Huh? Let's have that again.

Ambi, who fought on Alexander's side, lost lands to Porus as a result of Porus's defeat. Some defeat.

Then, having established himself as a magnanimous victor, Alexander asked Porus what it would take to win the rest of India. He made the mistake, I guess, of asking this in public with all his generals listening in, and Porus described the entire rest of the Gangetic valley with its multiple kingdoms, and the Magadhan empire downstream. Porus described these in terms of how much bigger they were than his own little kingdom.

As a result, there was no more stomach among Alexander's generals for continuing. They had almost lost to Porus. How could they successfully confront even larger forces?

And so Plutarch's story goes that the army revolted against continuing. And Alexander decides to retreat, but he asks Porus what the best way to return would be. He is told that he should go down the Indus in boats and then go along the Makran coast in boats and ships to Arabia and thence to Persia. And Alexander does something like that ' at the Indus delta he splits his force into two and sends one by sea and the other by land and they both return safely after three years.

But, uh-ho?

Why couldn't he just retreat? He had just defeated Porus and obtained his eternal friendship. He had defeated the kingdoms along the way and set up his own warlords to rule them. Ambi was his friend (well, maybe). He knew the way back.

There is a simpler explanation that does not require one to strain one's intelligence. Alexander lost to Puru. Puru imposed a separate peace on Ambi that included the surrender of some Taxilan land to Puru and a withdrawal of support for the Greeks. Alexander negotiated a safe-conduct for his own troops, provided they went down the Indus, and did not trouble Taxila or Puru again.

So there's Alexander, having suffered his first major defeat, set adrift down the Indus with a much reduced army. To get food and supplies, they have to negotiate or fight with the cities they pass. They even pick up some 'philosophers' from a city populated and defended by 'philosophers', i.e., Brahmins. Plutarch has some stories about these Brahmins, some of which remind one of prescriptions in Kautilya's Arthashastra.

Along the way, Alexander suffers a wound to the side.

They reach the delta of the Indus and make a decision to split ' I'd like to imagine that the idea of splitting his force came from his Indian philosopher friends. It was wise advice. Alexander's most urgent concern would have been for his family and his empire if any Persian enemies or even some fair-weather friends received the news of his defeat. The two halves of his army would be tied by bonds of friendship (and hostages in all but name retained by Alexander in his force). Whichever half returned first, it would serve to spread a different story, a story of the victory and the magnanimity of Alexander the Great.

What was left back in the Gangetic plain? Two 'small' kingdoms, Taxila and Puru, that were to be swallowed up by the expanding Magadhan empire. Twenty years later, Chandragupta Maurya would take over the Magadhan empire and the true details of the encounter between these Indian kingdoms and Alexander would be lost to history for ever.

Instead, Alexander's physician and friend who had taken care of him on his deathbed had a journal to write. And his other friends had a story to tell, that would ensure that the myth of Alexander Megalos (the Great) would keep his enemies from attacking him as he lay dying.

Centuries later, Plutarch makes Alexander immortal.

Why do I call the legend of Alexander 'spin'. Because that is what it is. Alexander could not afford to look like a loser. His successors could not afford to look like losers. Years later, Plutarch could not afford to deflate the Alexandrian bubble.

If we took the inhabited portions of all of Alexander's verified conquests, and excluded the 'Indian' provinces of Gandhara and Gedrosia, the resulting empire, 'Alexander's empire', would be a little bit smaller than the inhabited portions of the Gangetic plain. Yes, Alexander may have been a great warrior and he was surely a lucky one when he defeated the weakened Persian empire, but it would be silly of us to accept without question the thesis that Alexander was all set to conquer the kingdoms of North India. But such is the influence of the 'West' on us Indians ' and by the 'West' I mean the Persians, the Egyptians, the Greeks, the Arabs, the Europeans, the English, the Americans, and so on, that we accept without question that some tin-pot megalomaniac was about to do just that.


July 30, 2006
Link


Map of Alexander's conquest:



If we deduct the provinces of Gandhara and Gedrosia, then the empire is not as huge as to make its conqueror 'GREAT'. Surely, Alexander must have been an amazing warrior...
 
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S.A.T.A

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Alexander conquered a good part of the world that was 'known' to the societies of antiquity,societies which despite their vast geographical distances from one another know each others existence.Hence Alexander's military conquest was quite unique and rightfully should keep his title as the first the greatest warriors.

There several circumstantial evidence,aside from Greek and Roman accounts,which thought no the primary sources,but still the only sources that we have,that the Macedonian may have bested his Indian rival at the battle of Hydaspes.Infact it would appear that Alexander even managed to set the even into memory by minting the now famous Elephant Medallion ,which depicts a Greek cavalry man carrying a Indian war elephant(carrying two men).It has been argues that the cavalry warrior ostensibly depicted Alexander himself(or a Macedon representation) and the man on the elephant,Porus.The Medallion, is now considered,probably the only primary archaeological(numismatic to be precise)evidence for Alexanders famous 10 year world changing military campaign.

Why the great Macedonian did not venture further deep into the Indian plains is indeed a great mystery,I think there is great merit in historical accounts that the Macedonian,perhaps even Alexander himself may have been exhausted ad demotivated for any further conquest.The primary motivation for Alexanders eastern conquest,esp against the Persian empire was to avenge the assassination of his father Philip II by Pausanias.Macedonians,indeed all of Greece blamed Darius the emperor of Achemenid Persian empire for the murder(there was good reason for that,Philip had unified the Greeks against Persia and soon after the wedding ceremony of his daughter,where he was murdered,he was to embark on a campaign against Persia)

Persian empire extended all the way until Bactria and territories of taxila and pouravas were in the peripheral,it has been argued they may have been vassals of the Persian empire,if Alexander believed that was the case it also became a legitimate target.Once all domain that owed allegiance to Persian was subdued,Alexander simply count motivate this soldiers to go any further into the Indian plains,the fire of revenge in the hearts of the Macedonian army had by then turned to ember,neither could Alexanders exhortations or bribes motivate the Macedonians to march one step further.
 

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Not sure if this was posted before

 
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Godless-Kafir

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I think the best Alexander and Guru incident was told by Osho.

Its by far the best bit.. :)

 
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Flint

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One of the great relics in the form of a beautiful building is still erect in INDIA and it is the well know "TEJO MAHALAYA", which was built at the time of the MAURYAN EMPIRE..........
.........................Really!!
 

Tshering22

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Alexander the Great Invades India
And got thrashed by Indian kings of that time outside Mauryan fold and finally his last general got his @** handed back by Chandragupta Maurya. So much for Alexander's 'greatness'. I got to say, Westerners have a knack of spreading propaganda through fancy words really good. LOL!
 

johnee

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Alexander conquered a good part of the world that was 'known' to the societies of antiquity,societies which despite their vast geographical distances from one another know each others existence.Hence Alexander's military conquest was quite unique and rightfully should keep his title as the first the greatest warriors.
SATA,
Alexander did not conquer India and China along with many other eastern civilizations. The only one empire that he bested was Persia and Persia was already on its deathbed when Alexander had attacked them. I am not belittling his achievements, but to brand him as the 'Great' signifying that he was perhaps the greatest of all warriors, seems a tad farfetched. I am sure that, he would have been a master strategist to have conquered such a vast land in such a short time. Nonetheless, elevating him to extra-ordinary greatness in the entire history of human civilization is hard to fathom especially since he did not touch(or did not succeed against) the strong and powerful empires of India and China. He could only defeat the Persia which was already quite weak....

There several circumstantial evidence,aside from Greek and Roman accounts,which thought no the primary sources,but still the only sources that we have,that the Macedonian may have bested his Indian rival at the battle of Hydaspes.Infact it would appear that Alexander even managed to set the even into memory by minting the now famous Elephant Medallion ,which depicts a Greek cavalry man carrying a Indian war elephant(carrying two men).It has been argues that the cavalry warrior ostensibly depicted Alexander himself(or a Macedon representation) and the man on the elephant,Porus.The Medallion, is now considered,probably the only primary archaeological(numismatic to be precise)evidence for Alexanders famous 10 year world changing military campaign.
One can understand the need of Alexander or his successors to make people believe that Alexander did beat the Indian Kings. But the legend of Alexander's uncharacteristic magnanimity towards a defeated Indian king(Porus) is very odd. Further, as the article points out, King Porus, who fought against Alexander, ends up with greater land after the war and Ambi who allied Alexander loses his lands. And Alexander 'asks' Porus about the route that he should take back to Persia. This is truely interesting. Why would Alexander not use the same route to go home by which he came there? Why ask for a new route if he had conquered the lands behind?

Why the great Macedonian did not venture further deep into the Indian plains is indeed a great mystery,I think there is great merit in historical accounts that the Macedonian,perhaps even Alexander himself may have been exhausted ad demotivated for any further conquest.The primary motivation for Alexanders eastern conquest,esp against the Persian empire was to avenge the assassination of his father Philip II by Pausanias.Macedonians,indeed all of Greece blamed Darius the emperor of Achemenid Persian empire for the murder(there was good reason for that,Philip had unified the Greeks against Persia and soon after the wedding ceremony of his daughter,where he was murdered,he was to embark on a campaign against Persia)

Persian empire extended all the way until Bactria and territories of taxila and pouravas were in the peripheral,it has been argued they may have been vassals of the Persian empire,if Alexander believed that was the case it also became a legitimate target.Once all domain that owed allegiance to Persian was subdued,Alexander simply count motivate this soldiers to go any further into the Indian plains,the fire of revenge in the hearts of the Macedonian army had by then turned to ember,neither could Alexanders exhortations or bribes motivate the Macedonians to march one step further.
The counter theory is that after defeating the Persians and many smaller vassals, Alexander would have been able to afford many mercenaries to augment his army and give rest to his 'tired macedonians'. Also, the empires of India, were quite rich, famous and homes of luxury. Thus, chance of additional loot, is enough motivation to mercenaries and the macedonians alike.

Unless, the Alexander had no hope of winning against the Indian empires, he would not have retreated, that too in a new route after splitting his depleted troops. His retreat is characteristic of 'running with your tail in between your legs' sort of thing. A King who defeated an enemy and gave him pardon would not run away in such undiginified manner specially Alexander who, it seems, gave great care to his image.

Perhaps, the only thing unexplainable in the 'Alexander defeated theory' is the existance of Greek states in the western India. Or were they of same age?
 

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Perhaps, the only thing unexplainable in the 'Alexander defeated theory' is the existance of Greek states in the western India. Or were they of same age?
There were no Greek states in western India until after the collapse of the Mauryan Empire, which was two centuries after the Macedonians reached the Indus.

The kingdom of Bactria was Hellenic in nature, as evidence from both coins and literary accounts attests, but Bactria was never in the fold of Indic civilization.
 

johnee

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There were no Greek states in western India until after the collapse of the Mauryan Empire, which was two centuries after the Macedonians reached the Indus.

The kingdom of Bactria was Hellenic in nature, as evidence from both coins and literary accounts attests, but Bactria was never in the fold of Indic civilization.
Are you sure?! If you are right, then I think 'Alexander was defeated' theory seems more compact then the legend of 'Alexander pardoned Porus'...
 

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