Al-Khalid MBT And Pakistani Armour

[Mustang]

That article shows a korean tank as pakistani and mentions that arjun has French engines. aren't the engines in arjun german?

 

[pmaitra]

That article shows a korean tank as pakistani and mentions that arjun has French engines. aren't the engines in arjun german?

That's what I knew to be true:

• Engine: MTU Friedrichshafen GmbH, Germany (Motoren- und Turbinen-Union Friedrichshafen GmbH)
• Transmission: RENK AG, Germany (part of MAN Group)

Correction: The MTU Engine for Arjun is license produced in India. Hence, it is German technology but Indian made.

 

[pmaitra]

Since tanks by nature are offensive weapons, and since the days of Pakistan launching a preemptive attack on India like they did in 1965 and 71 are long gone, I don't think acquiring large numbers of tanks is in the PA's top priorities atm.

I fully agree with the first part of your comment. The days of Pakistan attacking India are long gone.

However, I do not agree with the second part. I believe Pakistan Army needs to acquire more and more tanks. If they did not have enough tanks and armoured vehicles, how on earth will they be able to subjugate their own gullible population and hold their own government to ransom?

 

[debasree]

Pakistan's 500 Al-Khalid tanks have been in production since 2001 You can see its Features & comparision with M1Pakistan's 500 Al-Khalid tanks have been in production since 2001: Newer generational tanks now being exported via IDEAS 2008 � Rupee News

tanks itself dont win awar my friend,the crews matter the most,it was shown in 1965 war when superior patton was beaten by old vijayat

 

[Blackwater]

tanks itself dont win awar my friend,the crews matter the most,it was shown in 1965 war when superior patton was beaten by old vijayat

I will go little more. Tanks are irrelevant in wars now.They used to be imp 30 yrs back not in modern Warefare.

 

[Tshering22]

I will go little more. Tanks are irrelevant in wars now.They used to be imp 30 yrs back not in modern Warefare.

I beg to differ. Tanks are equally important today as they were then. The only difference is that today's tanks rely more on rapid mobility and demand that should be able to fire while on move, more accurate, light but protected and night fighting capabilities. Tank columns are essential even today if a ground offensive has to be made. This is the reason that Japanese and Koreans are still making latest tanks.

As for the first article, it clearly is an ancient piece since Arjun MBT has proven itself and now Army is running out of its flimsy excuses on not to induct, reflecting the foreign lobbies present in IA desperately trying to kill indigenous production.

Now considering that in the event of Pakistan acquiring more tanks than us (which is impossible making this article a fear-mongering one like US claiming China to be ahead to loosen more money for defence), the first thing they would be facing more than Arjuns and T-90s would be rapid air strikes by Dhruv LCHs and whatever we plan to buy from that 22 heavy attack helos. The combined doctrine under 1 command means better battle management and which means even fighters like Tejas and Mirages would be bombing Pakistani tank columns to rubble till a pathway for Arjuns and T-90s is cleared to enter Lahore.

Tanks have become more or less secondary offensive weapons as aerial power gains more ground.

 

[SHASH2K2]

They can amass as many tanks as they like to . It will be fun to watch them being destroyed by NAG mounted on Arjun and by Helina on LCH . They may have numbers but cannot match quality of armour and NAG, Helina and Javeline procured by Army will be more then enough to make Pakistani Soilder fry .

 

[black eagle]

They can amass as many tanks as they like to . It will be fun to watch them being destroyed by NAG mounted on Arjun and by Helina on LCH . They may have numbers but cannot match quality of armour and NAG, Helina and Javeline procured by Army will be more then enough to make Pakistani Soilder fry .

I don't think there is any proposal to mount the NAG on the ARJUN... But yes NAG mounted on NAMICAs have the potentiality to be a game changer in armoured warfare...

 

[SHASH2K2]

I don't think there is any proposal to mount the NAG on the ARJUN... But yes NAG mounted on NAMICAs have the potentiality to be a game changer in armoured warfare...

MY Bad . current configuration will be using LAHAT missiles but future ones may have NAG give how project shapes out.

 

[gogbot]

it still doesnt have smoothbore gun :angry_1:

What;s your obsession with Smoothbore guns ,
Only major advantage is the ability to also fire missiles form the same barrel

Arjun gun can also fire missiles despite being rifled by encasing the missile in rubber padding.

 

[SATISH]

smooth bore-guns lack the range and accuracy of a rifled barrel. Making a rifled barrel is more difficult and that is why the Brits and the Europeans stick with the rifled barrel.

 

[p2prada]

smooth bore-guns lack the range and accuracy of a rifled barrel. Making a rifled barrel is more difficult and that is why the Brits and the Europeans stick with the rifled barrel.

Only Brits use Rifled. They are standardizing on smooth bore soon as NATO primarily use smooth bore. HESH is considered obsolete and FCS has improved accuracy considerably in the last decade. So, no need for rifled bore.

EDIT: Rifled bores are supposed to be a b*tch to maintain and has a very short life compared to smooth bore. Money matters.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Only Brits use Rifled. They are standardizing on smooth bore soon as NATO primarily use smooth bore. HESH is considered obsolete and FCS has improved accuracy considerably in the last decade. So, no need for rifled bore.

EDIT: Rifled bores are supposed to be a b*tch to maintain and has a very short life compared to smooth bore. Money matters.

HESH is obsolete ?
A HESH have more advantage than a HE in many cases..

Indian T-72M1 gun`s life is 250rnds..
500rnds is the life of MK1 gun, I don't see any problems with it..

Besides Army do like smooth-bore and FMBT will have one..

 

[JBH22]

Just send some Arjun where India has troops under UN mandate,the french sent 13 of their Leclerc MBT in Lebanon.Sending some Arjun there might might help to work out on the errors plus it gives troops the much needed protection you never know with Hezbollah

 

[Parthy]

Increasing numbers in Pakistan tanks is not a big concern with smart Indians... Its not only technology but they have to be smart enough to tackle with its usage.. we can win a war with Pakistan only by using T72.. Its all about tactics and strategy where we deliver high qualified IMA and NDA officers....

 

[SATISH]

Increasing numbers in Pakistan tanks is not a big concern with smart Indians... Its not only technology but they have to be smart enough to tackle with its usage.. we can win a war with Pakistan only by using T72.. Its all about tactics and strategy where we deliver high qualified IMA and NDA officers....

So do they...well it has always been attack and counter attack and who is successful. You need to first get that arrogance out of your head that 'we have better trained crew', 'we have better equipment' stuff and think cool headed. Only then you can understand and see a clearer picture...dont stir the mud and look at the slurry water and hope to see the lake bed.

 

[p2prada]

HESH is obsolete ?
A HESH have more advantage than a HE in many cases..

Indian T-72M1 gun`s life is 250rnds..
500rnds is the life of MK1 gun, I don't see any problems with it..

Besides Army do like smooth-bore and FMBT will have one..

2A46M-2 to M-5 have an EFC of 1200 compared to Arjun's 500.

Rifled bore is known to be useless at barrel life. Also the Maple gun upgrade on T-72 has increased barrel life to 800 EFC.

HESH can be beaten by armour spacing. Every single composite armour in the market defeats HESH rounds without any effect.

HESH is only good against non-reinforced concrete bunkers, not a major advantage if you look at the advantages of smooth over rifled.

I would any day prefer a gun that can shoot for longer periods of time without obsessing over barrel bursts and excessive maintenance. After all, the Brits aren't upgrading to Smoothbore only for NATO's standardization advantage. They are ready to give up rifled for all the advantages smooth provides over rifled. Accuracy is a moot point considering the XM-360 smoothbore already hits targets at 12000 metres.

 

[Parthy]

So do they...well it has always been attack and counter attack and who is successful. You need to first get that arrogance out of your head that 'we have better trained crew', 'we have better equipment' stuff and think cool headed. Only then you can understand and see a clearer picture...dont stir the mud and look at the slurry water and hope to see the lake bed.

Its all about comparison.. You do compare Pak technology VS our technology, Pak tank number Vs our tank numbers.. Likewise, how well they're trained.. am not denying that their training is good.. Defense personnel from all the countries are their best candids.. But the question comes how capable they're and their training facilities when compared to ours?? Thats wat i meant.. you should understand the core of the sentence...

Adding to it, it is more matter what you drive either T72 or T90.. Its all about the capability of the crew and their reflex which wins the moment for them... who our enemy is least bothered.. If you keep on thinking about it, they'll strike at you the moment you try to react...

 

[shuvo@y2k10]

pakistan can only acheive this semmingly impossible goal if china donates half its tank fleet to them.none of pakistani or chinese tank can stand up against the arjun mbt-hence it is most advisable to the army to induct the arjun in large no. to replace the obsolete t-72 and t-55 and stall the induction of junks called t-90.the main problem might arise if the pakistanis receive m1a2 abhrams tank(donated by US) which is certainly not impossible since one day US might feel that pakistan needs a m1 abhrams tank fleet to defeat the tank fleet of the taliban.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

2A46M-2 to M-5 have an EFC of 1200 compared to Arjun's 500

Those 2A46M2/5 are Russian specifications not Indian..

Btw, A tank gun is not machine gun, L44 smooth-bore which is in use with Leo-2 & M1A2, have similar life, So i don't think 500EFC is bad for Arjun Gun..

HESH can be beaten by armour spacing.

Unlike HE, HESH have a tendency to spread up over Armour and explode, Now use the hesh round on vulnerable turret ring of a T-72/90/80/AK..

The application of HESH rounds are better than HE..