Al-Khalid MBT And Pakistani Armour

[farhan_9909]

Re: Main Battle Tanks and Armour Technology

For what these smaller metal sheet projection are?
do they offer any kind of protection other than giving the turret a better look?

 

[Damian]

Re: Main Battle Tanks and Armour Technology

These sheets are rubber, and their role is different, they are there to disturb turret shape mainly.

 

[The Last Stand]

Re: Main Battle Tanks and Armour Technology

What I find interesting about turret is that front turret have definetely rather thick, integrated composite armor cavities, hard to say about turret sides, but there probably, composite armor is only modular. Also turret roof is relatively thick.

Yes, turret roof image on militaryphotos scared me. Probably upto 250 mm of armour on the roof.

 

[The Last Stand]

Re: Main Battle Tanks and Armour Technology

Looks like photoshop...

Now you are concerned. Hypocrite

 

[The Last Stand]

Re: Main Battle Tanks and Armour Technology

No Nozh armor on pakistani T-80UD tanks.

So the T-80UD shown are Ukrainian. Thanks for confirming what we have been trying to say for almost forever. They just didn't accept that Nozh wasn't exported.

 

[The Last Stand]

Re: Main Battle Tanks and Armour Technology

These sheets are rubber, and their role is different, they are there to disturb turret shape mainly.

To confuse tank gunners and make them aim at these projections so that they miss? Or to confuse identification efforts.

 

[militarysta]

Re: Main Battle Tanks and Armour Technology

To confuse tank gunners and make them aim at these projections so that they miss? Or to confuse identification efforts.

No, no, no, those rubber (whit thin metal bar) sheets are placed there for two reson:
1) Tank RCS is smaller whit those sheets
2) those sheets are used as simple screens to ignit small SC warheds and other granades in some distance before turret ring. Of course it will not help against real "AT" weapons but agains improvizated "sticky" bomb, or this:
RKG-3 anti-tank grenade - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

is enought as protection.

 

[militarysta]

Re: Main Battle Tanks and Armour Technology

Nice photo of the welded turret. Almoust the same as in Ob.187, and in T-90A.
More or less turret for: Ob.187, T-80UD, T-90A, T-84 is the same turret developed in 1983 for futer soviet tank. It's very good turret - geometry is brillant for conventional warfare. For cost reson it was introduced in Russia in 2001 Almous 20 years after developed. On Ukraina they decided to use those turret between 1991-1993, so mucht faster. What was obvious choice due to ready production line, ane greate steel factory.

 

[militarysta]

Re: Main Battle Tanks and Armour Technology

The photos in question:

Just after one HEAT round from rpg or missile.

On what accualy You are claming that this photo shown result single hit?
Any details?

 

[Andrei_bt]

Re: Main Battle Tanks and Armour Technology

Nice photo of the welded turret. Almoust the same as in Ob.187, and in T-90A.
More or less turret for: Ob.187, T-80UD, T-90A, T-84 is the same turret developed in 1983 for futer soviet tank. It's very good turret - geometry is brillant for conventional warfare. For cost reson it was introduced in Russia in 2001 Almous 20 years after developed. On Ukraina they decided to use those turret between 1991-1993, so mucht faster. What was obvious choice due to ready production line, ane greate steel factory.

T-80UD turret is different from T-90, object 187 etc. it is not connected to turret "developed in 1983 for futer soviet tank". Of course the shape of turrets of rather similar class tanks are looking somewhat similar.

 

[Andrei_bt]

Re: Main Battle Tanks and Armour Technology

was avaible and newest- newest 3BM60(?) Sviniec-1 was ended both are not allowed for export still, becouse it's newest and top technology.

Hard to export something not produced in series.

 

[militarysta]

Re: Main Battle Tanks and Armour Technology

T-80UD turret is different from T-90, object 187 etc. it is not connected to turret "developed in 1983 for futer soviet tank". Of course the shape of turrets of rather similar class tanks are looking somewhat similar.

Sure? Dimensions and patent is almouste the same as draws from 1984. Of course internal structure in T-84 will be diffrent (as I understand two separated chambers for special armour insert are placed in one turret "cheek") but it's looks as exatly the same "common" turret for "new" never-exist FST.

 

[Andrei_bt]

Re: Main Battle Tanks and Armour Technology

Sure? Dimensions and patent is almouste the same as draws from 1983. Of course internal structure in T-84 will be diffrent (as I understand two separated chambers for special armour insert are placed in one turret "cheek") but it's looks as exatly the same "common" turret for "new" never-exist FST.

If you seen patent you coudn't notice T-80UD turret has different modular design of armor blocks.

 

[Andrei_bt]

Re: Main Battle Tanks and Armour Technology

For what these smaller metal sheet projection are?
do they offer any kind of protection other than giving the turret a better look?

seme functioning as side screans on hull sides.

 

[militarysta]

Re: Main Battle Tanks and Armour Technology

If you seen patent you coudn't notice T-80UD turret has different modular design of armor blocks.

Yes, it's true, but I based on polish military press -rather well informed:

This turret is the same like for Ob.187, it was developed in 1984r in...yes in Charkiv factory* but not introduced to production lines becouse cast steel turrets where chaper. Initially plans orgdered only cast turret for all T-90, unfotunetly cast stell turret factory (last production line) was closed in Mariupol (Azowstal) in ~1998/1999. Army wants cheaper but less protected cast turret, but closing production lines orced using (in all aspects better) welded turret.

* welded turret for new soviet tanks in calsic shape (normal turret) was developed in Charkiv factory in 1984. After that it was rejected (due to cost reson) but this ready and in all aspects better turret was designated for Ob.187. After Soviet Union colapse this turret was "shared" between Ukraina and Russia. Free Ukraina faster introduced better turret - prototype Ob.478BE was redy in...1992 so after independend Ukraina had good turret. In Russia extly the same turret "stack" due to mony reson, and only closing cast turret production lines in Mariupol (Azowstal) was reson why Russina Army decide to welded turret.

This informatins are avaible in last polish Nowa Technika Wojskowa (New Military Technology), in article "Nowe czołgi naszych wschodnich sąsiadów T-90MS i Opłot-M" (New tanks our estern neighbors - T-90MS and Oplot-M) written by Tomasz Szulc.

BTW: Andriej - what for you means "modular" IMHO T-80UD have the same "modular" capabilities as Leo-2, M1, Leclerc....you just can "open" quite easly upper turret plate and replace damage "special armour" becouse it's placed in one block (box) inside turret cavity.

 

[Damian]

Re: Main Battle Tanks and Armour Technology

BTW: Andriej - what for you means "modular" IMHO T-80UD have the same "modular" capabilities as Leo-2, M1, Leclerc....you just can "open" quite easly upper turret plate and replace damage "special armour" becouse it's placed in one block (box) inside turret cavity.

No, this welded turret have replaceable front armor blocks, not only composite inserts which are semi-modular.

Look at Andrei's internet site, there were some drawings how modularity is realized.

Hopefully Andrei will not mind if I use drawing from his site.

T-90A turret which is direct descendant of Object 187 turret, and Ukrainian welded turret, geometry and design is different, but both turrets are similiar.

And here explained how modular armor is designed.

 

[militarysta]

Re: Main Battle Tanks and Armour Technology

Espacenet - Исходный документ

Russian T-90A turret patent -in polish Or Ob.187 turret

patent sent to poland in 1997

 

[militarysta]

Re: Main Battle Tanks and Armour Technology

No, this welded turret have replaceable front armor blocks, not only composite inserts which are semi-modular.


T-90A turret which is direct descendant of Object 187 turret, and Ukrainian welded turret, geometry and design is different, but both turrets are similiar.

True, those turret have fully modural eacht "cheek" part, and additionaly - like in all western tank it's posibble to open "upper" plate and replace special armour module inside chamber.

But this turret is presen on Ukrainian tanks since Oplot-M or erlyier? As I understand sucht smar designe is present since Oplot-M turret, not erlyier Ob.478BE, wher turret was almoust the same as in Ob.187.
Andriej?

 

[Damian]

Re: Main Battle Tanks and Armour Technology

But this turret is presen on Ukrainian tanks since Oplot-M or erlyier?

Seems like T-80UD exported to Pakistan and T-84 series have this type of turret, it is just standard welded turret manufactured in Ukraine.

 

[militarysta]

Re: Main Battle Tanks and Armour Technology

Seems like T-80UD exported to Pakistan and T-84 series have this type of turret, it is just standard welded turret manufactured in Ukraine.

Here Im not so sure. Pak. T-80UD looks like sttandard "1984 welded turret" -as in Ob.187 and T-90A, and those modular turret looks like from T-84... and Oplot-M.

Again - Andriej? Can You expain this>?