Al-Khalid MBT And Pakistani Armour

[militarysta]

Re: Main Battle Tanks and Armour Technology

More and More info out about the atlay tank armour tests and the compositon

This layout is almoust the same like in T-80U in one armour model. The same which went to Pakistan whit T-80UD...
Interesting. Material in unkown for me ut layout is almoust the same.

Have turkisch industry any conection whit pak. industry in term of the tanks?

 

[farhan_9909]

Re: Main Battle Tanks and Armour Technology

These are Type-59 cast turrets brother, NOT AK turret, AK series has welded turrets.

please do some research before posting misinformation.

ooops my bad.

Antibody had posted this in the Ak infopool thread.

 

[Damian]

Re: Main Battle Tanks and Armour Technology

Tungten Alloy for ZTZ-99 Main Battle Tank



In terms of firepower, when the 125mm smoothbore gun of ZTZ-99 main battle tank which has high gun pressure is utilizing tungsten alloy armor piercing fin stabilized discarding sabot(APFSDS), the tank can penetrate homogenous armor which has thickness of 850mm from a distance of 2000m. While the smoothbore gun is utilizing special alloy armor piercing (Hedo alloy penetrators) (the length to diameter for bomb core ratio is 30 to 1), the tank has penetration to armor by more than 960mm. Tungsten alloy is welcomed in military industry with its strong tensile strength, yield strength, hardness and elongation. In contrary, the U.S. M1A2 main battle tank has penetrating power for 810mm from a distance of 2000m. Germany Leopard-IIA6 has the penetrating power for 900mm. While Japanese Type 90 main battle tank has penetrating power for 650mm.

So the qualification of ZTZ-99 main battle tank is superior others in terms of power. Otherwise, ZTZ-99 main battle tank is equipped with 9K119 laser guided gunshot missile (called as AT-11 Sniper missile in the West) which is molded on Russian missile. There are 4 missiles in the tank. New artillery system is equipped with laser transmitter in gunner sighting device of tank, during improvement. The propellant powder of missile is lengthened and the weight of missile is increased too. The missile can choose complicates flight path and fly to target at low altitude, in terms of attacking conditions (such as attacking at a standstill ).


Tungten Alloy for ZTZ-99 Main Battle Tank

As Militarysta said, BS. I have a question to you, can you stop posting Chinese propaganda?

ZTZ-99 use the same type of autoloader as T-72 and T-90 tanks, with the same projectile lenght limitations. Not to mention that some values of penetration power are underestimated and some are overestimated in your post, and we do not know to what type of ammunition they are connected.

Oh and by the way, 9K119 is not a missile but guiding system for a missile, missilie designation is 9M119.

I know that perhaps for layman like you, such "sources" of information are good, but my good advice to you, change sources because these one looks like written by mentally ill person.

 

[Dazzler]

Re: Main Battle Tanks and Armour Technology

This layout is almoust the same like in T-80U in one armour model. The same which went to Pakistan whit T-80UD...
Interesting. Material in unkown for me ut layout is almoust the same.

Have turkisch industry any conection whit pak. industry in term of the tanks?

There is plenty going on between Pakistan and Turkey particularly in terms of armour cooperation but much less is reported. Rememebr i mentioned composite armour deal with Turks when Germany refused to do so for Altay? This armour layout similarity (persumably) is not surprising considering the cooperation in view. However, Turks rarely deal directly with Ukraine, rather with South Korea and Pakistan (Altay)

 

[Dazzler]

Re: Main Battle Tanks and Armour Technology

As Militarysta said, BS. I have a question to you, can you stop posting Chinese propaganda?

ZTZ-99 use the same type of autoloader as T-72 and T-90 tanks, with the same projectile lenght limitations. Not to mention that some values of penetration power are underestimated and some are overestimated in your post, and we do not know to what type of ammunition they are connected.

Oh and by the way, 9K119 is not a missile but guiding system for a missile, missilie designation is 9M119.

I know that perhaps for layman like you, such "sources" of information are good, but my good advice to you, change sources because these one looks like written by mentally ill person.

Dont mind, it was in a lighter tone

 

[Damian]

Re: Main Battle Tanks and Armour Technology

AFAIK, officialy Roketsan developed armor for Altay with South Koreans, not Pakistanis, and this would make more sense.

Dont mind, it was in a lighter tone

It does not change a fact it is BS.

 

[Dazzler]

Re: Main Battle Tanks and Armour Technology

AFAIK, officialy Roketsan developed armor for Altay with South Koreans, not Pakistanis, and this would make more sense.



It does not change a fact it is BS.

explain the layout similarity with UD then.

 

[Damian]

Re: Main Battle Tanks and Armour Technology

explain the layout similarity with UD then.

And how do you know there is any similarity? Militarysta overinterprated a simple graphic showing 3 layers and kinetic energy penetrator during penetration process. We do not know if it shows Altay armor, and I do not see any similarity because it does not show whole armor array.

I can for example say that armor is also similiar to british "Burlington" armor, which this makes both the same armor?

Not to mention that composite armors are always classified, graphic might just show some sort of simplified model.

Which makes funny to look at people so excited and making different hypothesis that Pakistan sold armor technology to Turkey.

But tell me please why Turkey should purchase armor from Pakistan? Maybe you think the Turks do not have good engineers? When I look at Turkish military products I see a country where designing modern composite armor is far more probable than in Pakistan.

Besides this, Altay was co developed with South Korea, which means that eventual technology transfer, also for armor, came from South Korea not Pakistan.

Overall the whole claim about armor technology transfer from Pakistan, seems more like empty and silly propaganda claim.

 

[Dazzler]

Re: Main Battle Tanks and Armour Technology

And how do you know there is any similarity? Militarysta overinterprated a simple graphic showing 3 layers and kinetic energy penetrator during penetration process. We do not know if it shows Altay armor, and I do not see any similarity because it does not show whole armor array.

I can for example say that armor is also similiar to british "Burlington" armor, which this makes both the same armor?

Not to mention that composite armors are always classified, graphic might just show some sort of simplified model.

Which makes funny to look at people so excited and making different hypothesis that Pakistan sold armor technology to Turkey.

But tell me please why Turkey should purchase armor from Pakistan? What you think the Turks do not have good engineers? When I look at Turkish military products I see a country where designing modern composite armor is far more probable than in Pakistan.

Besides this, Altay was co developed with South Korea, which means that eventual technology transfer, also for armor, came from South Korea not Pakistan.

Overall the whole claim about armor technology transfer from Pakistan, seems more like empty and silly propaganda claim.

The Savunma Sanayi Müstesarligi (Defense Secretariat of Turkey) announced it from the news agencies (look http://gbulten.ssm.gov.tr/arsiv/2006/06/19/gun.htm in Turkish)

 

[Damian]

Re: Main Battle Tanks and Armour Technology

Perhaps you should first check if link works.

 

[Dazzler]

Re: Main Battle Tanks and Armour Technology

Perhaps you should first check if link works.

Turkish defense secretary announced the armour deal, link is 11 years old so may have problems

 

[Dazzler]

Re: Main Battle Tanks and Armour Technology

Undersecretariat for Defense industries website announced that Pakistan will join Turkish MBT project to develop state of the art Turkish Battle Tank.

After Otokar, FNSS, MKEK, ASELSAN and HAVELSAN, the Pakistani firm producing the Al Khalid MBT (AARDIC) transfered the technological support for the production of advanced passive armor. In 2006, 100 delegation large, Turkish engineers, politicians and businessmen traveled to Pakistan to discuss about defensive cooperation.

 

[Damian]

Re: Main Battle Tanks and Armour Technology



11 years... this is 11 years old news! Are you aware how many things can change through 11 years?! And do you know that announcing something does not mean that deal will become reality? After 11 years you could even forgot or confuse some informations.

Pakistan to transfer composite armor technology to Turkey. --2006


Undersecretariat for Defense industries website announced that Pakistan will join Turkish MBT project to develop state of the art Turkish Battle Tank.

After Otokar, FNSS, MKEK, ASELSAN and HAVELSAN, the Pakistani firm producing the Al Khalid MBT (AARDIC) transfered the technological support for the production of advanced passive armor. In 2006, 100 delegation large, Turkish engineers, politicians and businessmen traveled to Pakistan to discuss about defensive cooperation.

Well it seems you have a serious problem. First you do not understand how defence industry works, and that concepts and plans might change several times. Second is that Turkey, co developed Altay with South Korea, not Pakistan.

Is this seriously so hard to understand? Turkey did not signed contract with Pakistan, and choosed a country with more advanced arms industry base.

So no, armor technology transfer from Pakistan is old news, it seems that deal was never finalized, and Turkey choosen a better partner.

 

[Dazzler]

Re: Main Battle Tanks and Armour Technology

Norinco Type-IIM...

 

[Dazzler]

Re: Main Battle Tanks and Armour Technology

11 years... this is 11 years old news! Are you aware how many things can change through 11 years?! And do you know that announcing something does not mean that deal will become reality? After 11 years you could even forgot or confuse some informations.



Well it seems you have a serious problem. First you do not understand how defence industry works, and that concepts and plans might change several times. Second is that Turkey, co developed Altay with South Korea, not Pakistan.

Is this seriously so hard to understand? Turkey did not signed contract with Pakistan, and choosed a country with more advanced arms industry base.

So no, armor technology transfer from Pakistan is old news, it seems that deal was never finalized, and Turkey choosen a better partner.

unless i find a source stating the deal never happened, i am inclined to believe it did. No one is arguing the South Korean-Turkish cooperation since South Korea is a joint partner but it was Pakistan (according to Turkish sources) that gave the composite armour technology.

 

[Damian]

Re: Main Battle Tanks and Armour Technology

unless i find a source stating the deal never happened, i am inclined to believe it did. No one is arguing the South Korean-Turkish cooperation since South Korea is a joint partner but it was Pakistan (according to Turkish sources) that gave the composite armour technology.

But there does not need to be any source claiming that deal never happened. But explain me why Turkey should choose Pakistani armor? What makes it better than South Korean designed armor, or Turkish designed armor?

Both South Korea and Turkey have far more advanced military industry and scientific base than Pakistan, and both these countries have better economic situation, which means they can develop better armor technology than Pakistan.

Also if South Korea was main cooperation partner of Turkey, it means they were the ones that were involved in all major components development.

Besides this in Turkish article about armor posted on some Pakistani defence forum, everywhere is mentioned Hyundai-Rotem, not some Pakistani company.

Do you see somewhere word Pakistan? I don't. What I see however is that Roketsan claims cooperations with Hyundai-Rotem.

 

[The Last Stand]

Re: Main Battle Tanks and Armour Technology

Because its enemy doesnt have DM-53, M-338, M-829A3, rather 3BM-42, 3BM-42-M, (not sure if India has 44, 46 ) at best. It will do pretty fine against them

3BM44 is the round designation, 3BM42 is the penetrator designation. Your "source" explicitly stated that Al-Khalid is immune to all 120 and 125 mm shells

Mango is 3BM44, Lekalo is 3BM44M, or perhaps 3VBM17 and 3VBM17M.

 

[farhan_9909]

Re: Main Battle Tanks and Armour Technology

Economic situation does matter but not at all.

Saying so that Turkey or South korea(agree about this because they have exposure to american technology) would be having better armour technology only because of being better at economic is BS

if so is the case and it is all about economy than i am sure chinese armour would probably be only 2nd to USA.

Pakistan has firms dealing with Ammo and tanks for the past 60 years.
AARDIC alone for armour development was established under 110millions dollars.for the sole purpose of armour development for tanks/APC/AFV etc.
ARDE again is more than 50 years older.

If not south korea but pakista indeed has more better technological base for armour technology than turkey..

The deal indeed had happened considering this

Undersecretariat for Defense industries website announced that Pakistan will join Turkish MBT project to develop state of the art Turkish Battle Tank.

After Otokar, FNSS, MKEK, ASELSAN and HAVELSAN, the Pakistani firm producing the Al Khalid MBT (AARDIC) transfered the technological support for the production of advanced passive armor. In 2006, 100 delegation large, Turkish engineers, politicians and businessmen traveled to Pakistan to discuss about defensive cooperation.

though later they might had found a better partner for an even better armour.
Note:Atlay was developed within less than 5-6 years.and it took almost 8 years for AARDIC to develop the new alloy(armour) for Al khalid in 2005.

AARDIC was seperated from HIT later.

 

[The Last Stand]

Re: Main Battle Tanks and Armour Technology

Bullshit.


Super bulshit.




Propably overestimated a lot.


Bullshit again.



overestimated



Chineese propaganda wet dream.


This source is shit. No single data in tekst is correct.

So many utterances of the **** word. And they don't mention any rounds. So do the M1A2, Leo 2A6 and Type 90 ram into armour plates to get these penetration estimates

 

[The Last Stand]

Re: Main Battle Tanks and Armour Technology

Turkish defense secretary announced the armour deal, link is 11 years old so may have problems

Yes, 7 year old news has a 11 year old link.

Very interesting.