Al-Khalid MBT And Pakistani Armour

[JBH22]

Pakistani t-80ud

More pics of T-80UD gotta admit Pakistanis did good job by acquiring T-80 ,but a bit weird why they did not check the T-84 instead they choose Chinese made tanks could be budget constraints.

 

[farhan_9909]

More pics of T-80UD gotta admit Pakistanis did good job by acquiring T-80 ,but a bit weird why they did not check the T-84 instead they choose Chinese made tanks could be budget constraints.

this was a bad decision.why?

we were not into war.we should have better waited a few years more and rather pushed the P4 of al khalid into mass production

p4 was heavier than present al khalid and had a 1500hp french engine in prototypes.
we bought t-80ud only as a stop gap measure

 

[JBH22]

this was a bad decision.why?

we were not into war.we should have better waited a few years more and rather pushed the P4 of al khalid into mass production

p4 was heavier than present al khalid and had a 1500hp french engine in prototypes.
we bought t-80ud only as a stop gap measure

T-80 acquisition was a wise decision imho.
What I wanted to know why the T-84 was no choosen as the next gen instead of going for Chinese tanks

 

[farhan_9909]

T-80 acquisition was a wise decision imho.
What I wanted to know why the T-84 was no choosen as the next gen instead of going for Chinese tanks

We entered into jv with china for a 3rd gen mbt in 1989..but due to delays in the project

t-80ud was bought as a stop gap measure.i guess t-84 was not ready before 2020.

the Pakistani T-80ud also has alot of t-84 feature.most prominent is the turret and gadgets

 

[The Last Stand]

We entered into jv with china for a 3rd gen mbt in 1989..but due to delays in the project

t-80ud was bought as a stop gap measure.i guess t-84 was not ready before 2020.

the Pakistani T-80ud also has alot of t-84 feature.most prominent is the turret and gadgets

T-84 has been ready for past 15-20 years. 2020?

 

[farhan_9909]

T-84 has been ready for past 15-20 years. 2020?

Well pakistan started negotiation with ukraine in 1995.the reason the t-80ud has alot of t-84 features.
t-84 as per wiki entered in 1999 into service with ukraine
while pakistan started recieving t-80ud in 1997.

 

[farhan_9909]

Specs of Aorak series ERA

Aorak Explosive Reactive armour (Pakistan)



Type
Active Armour

Development
The Institute of Industrial Control Systems, well known for the design, development and production of missile and rocket systems, developed the AORAK Mk 1 Explosive Reactive Armour (ERA) system to improve the combat survivability of tanks and armoured fighting vehicles against attack from Chemical Energy (CE) projectiles. As far as it is known, there have been no exports of this ERA by Pakistan.China has been involved in the transfer of MBT technology to the Heavy Industries Taxila (HIT) plant and this could also have included at least some ERA technology.It should be noted that some of the Institute of Industrial Control Systems products are now being marketed by Global Industrial & Defence Solutions of Pakistan.

Institute of Industrial Control Systems AORAK Mk 1 explosive reactive armour (Pakistan) - Jane's Armour and Artillery Upgrades

three versions are known to have been produced, mk.1, 2, 3, here is more...


Pakistan is also working in this direction.

Dr AQ Khan Research Laboratories AORAK Mk 1 Explosive Reactive Armour
Date Posted: 22-May-2003

Development / Description

The Dr AQ Khan Research Laboratories, well known for the design, development and production of missile and rocket systems, have developed the AORAK Mk 1 explosive reactive armour (ERA) system to improve the combat survivability of tanks and armoured fighting vehicles against attack from Chemical Energy (CE) projectiles.
So far, the Dr AQ Khan Research Laboratories have developed three different sizes of ERA modules to meet different user requirements.
They are known as Type A, B and C and differ only in their size. Each module consists of two thin steel plates between which the explosive is inserted. This in turn is inserted in a box which is then bolted on to the hull or turret of the vehicle.
Efforts have also been made "‹"‹to reduce the risk of accidental detonation of the ERA modules by small arms fire, shell fragments and lightning strikes as well as reducing the sympathetic detonation of surrounding ERA modules.
This armour system is claimed to have a shelf-life of 10 years and an operational temperature range of -40 to +52 º C.


Specifications

Type A
Type B
Type C

Size
305 × 305 mm
229 × 229 mm
152 × 152 mm

Weight
16 kg
9 kg
8 kg

Weight of explosive sheet
1.2 kg
0.75 kg
0.35 kg

Status

Development complete. Believed to be in low-rate production for the Pakistan Army for installation on Type 59, 69 and 85 series MBTs. Late in 2000, Pakistan showed the Al Khalid and Al Zarra MBTs fitted with ERA over their frontal arc. At this stage, the source of this ERA is not known. Al Khalid is now entering production for Pakistan with 315 to be built over a three year period.



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[Dazzler]

We entered into jv with china for a 3rd gen mbt in 1989..but due to delays in the project

t-80ud was bought as a stop gap measure.i guess t-84 was not ready before 2020.

the Pakistani T-80ud also has alot of t-84 feature.most prominent is the turret and gadgets

AK is better than T-80ud in most specs particularly fire control, thermal/ night viision, datalink and BMS, other electronics etc. just go and check on previous pages

its a tank that we made with China for our own battlefield requirements, not to please someone's ego

how good is the AORAK series ERA and composite armour, no one knows unless PA shows some data, all i know is that PA tank crew preferes AK over T-80ud and any other tank in current service due to performance, crew comfort, decent weapons and gun, fire control and sensor suite.

 

[militarysta]

Re: Main Battle Tanks and Armour Technology

To remember:
6ETS-40 (T-64B)
T-6ETS43 (T-80U)
6ETS43-2C (T-64BM Bulat)
for all above max lengh "something" in casette is 710-730 mm

MZ seriee (T-72 and clones) max circa 640mm
Mz seriee modernizeted (T-90A, Rogatka, etc) max circa 740mm

 

[Damian]

Re: Main Battle Tanks and Armour Technology

@militarysta, T-72 and T-90 tanks use AZ series of autoloader, MZ is just a different way to descrive autoloaders of T-64, T-80 and T-84 tanks.

 

[Dejawolf]

Re: Main Battle Tanks and Armour Technology

@militarysta, T-72 and T-90 tanks use AZ series of autoloader, MZ is just a different way to descrive autoloaders of T-64, T-80 and T-84 tanks.

but T-72 series autoloaders are still vastly different in design from T-80 and T-64 series autoloaders. casette and basket autoloader..

 

[farhan_9909]

Re: Main Battle Tanks and Armour Technology

@militarysta, T-72 and T-90 tanks use AZ series of autoloader, MZ is just a different way to descrive autoloaders of T-64, T-80 and T-84 tanks.

can the al khalid be modified to carry the MZ autoloader instead of AZ?

again if the ukraine help is also taken?

 

[Damian]

Re: Main Battle Tanks and Armour Technology

but T-72 series autoloaders are still vastly different in design from T-80 and T-64 series autoloaders. casette and basket autoloader..

Well, per russian/ukrainian terminology, T-72/T-90 autoloader is, well autoloader, in russian it is автомат заряжания (АЗ - phonetic translation - avtomat zaryazhaniya), while T-64/T-80/T-84 is loading mechanism or механизм заряжания (МЗ - phonetic translation - mekhanizm zaryazhaniya) in russian.

This is why people that are native russian speakers, use AZ (АЗ) for short to describe T-72/T-90 autoloader, and MZ (МЗ) for short to describe loading mechanism of T-64/T-80/T-84 tanks.

And yes, these are completely different designs.

can the al khalid be modified to carry the MZ autoloader instead of AZ?

again if the ukraine help is also taken?

In theory should be possible.

 

[farhan_9909]

Re: Main Battle Tanks and Armour Technology

In theory should be possible.

what if the turret is redesigned to carry t-80ud type autoloader.?

i mean the turret of al khalid is almost as big as of the t-80ud...

Is it possible to reverse engineer the MZ autoloader in the t-80ud and than apply the autoloader in the al khalid?

 

[Damian]

Re: Main Battle Tanks and Armour Technology

As I said it should be possible, it does not mean it is easy, and I fear you will need help of KMDB to sort things out, perhaps even receive autoloader documentation to know all it's "secrets".

 

[farhan_9909]

Re: Main Battle Tanks and Armour Technology

As I said it should be possible, it does not mean it is easy, and I fear you will need help of KMDB to sort things out, perhaps even receive autoloader documentation to know all it's "secrets".

would be interesting if the autoloader of al khalid is changed.

 

[SilentKiller]

Re: Main Battle Tanks and Armour Technology

under testing old prototype

Is this the new chinese Light tank, gun looks to be 105 mm and not 125 mm if i am not mistaken.

 

[Damian]

Re: Main Battle Tanks and Armour Technology

Is this the new chinese Light tank, gun looks to be 105 mm and not 125 mm if i am not mistaken.

No, this is Al Khalid.

It is just naked, without side skirts, ERA, slat armor/storage baskets, smoke dischargers etc.

 

[Dejawolf]

Re: Main Battle Tanks and Armour Technology

what if the turret is redesigned to carry t-80ud type autoloader.?

i mean the turret of al khalid is almost as big as of the t-80ud...

Is it possible to reverse engineer the MZ autoloader in the t-80ud and than apply the autoloader in the al khalid?

it is possible, although it would require some significant restowage, and not really sure it's such a good idea.
reload time is a little faster, and more rounds can be stored in the carousel(28 vs 22) but the propellant charges are stored
vertically instead of horizontally, making the ammunition stowage easier to hit. additionally, hull ammunition needs to be transfered on the outside of the tank to the autoloader, instead of inside.
since the T-80 autoloader is lower than the T-72 autoloader, TC and gunner will have a bit more vertical leg space though.

 

[farhan_9909]

Re: Main Battle Tanks and Armour Technology

it is possible, although it would require some significant restowage, and not really sure it's such a good idea.
reload time is a little faster, and more rounds can be stored in the carousel(28 vs 22) but the propellant charges are stored
vertically instead of horizontally, making the ammunition stowage easier to hit. additionally, hull ammunition needs to be transfered on the outside of the tank to the autoloader, instead of inside.
since the T-80 autoloader is lower than the T-72 autoloader, TC and gunner will have a bit more vertical leg space though.

Janes interview from pakistnai officials in ideas def expo 2012 nov.
in the interview they claimed that the autoloader can store 24 rounds.while all the previous while in all the previous info we read 22.
@Akim said the autoloader of Al khalid is Ural. easier to built but has many problem later if the tank is hit or related