Akash Surface-to-air Missile

[Kshithij]

well this question will be best answered by drdo / end users

We need all, we just don't need them in bulk. Let our enemies be confused.

BARAK-8 had 2 israeli things - seeker and radar. With seeker indigenised the BARAK-8 missile has become fully Indian. With the development of Indian radar, even BARAK-8 system can be indigenised fully.

Did Israel help in seeker development as a tacit understanding of military alliance against common enemy? Do you have any idea?

 

[porky_kicker]

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx...........................

 

[porky_kicker]

Did Israel help in seeker development as a tacit understanding of military alliance against common enemy? Do you have any idea?

this much i can speculate that cross pollination of tech/knowledge might have happened during drdo's involvement with Russians (astra seeker) and Israelis (barak seeker) but drdo seekers in akash 1s / astra / QRSAM etc is totally indigenous and they hold the IPR to it.

 

[porky_kicker]

nice pic of army troop level radar for akash sam - rajendra radar

 

[Kshithij]

practically you are right

but IMO and limited knowledge, if the missiles active seeker range is high enough to allow LOBL then it will count as a fire and forget system. in real life chances of that happening is pretty slim unless the pilot wants to commit suicide :biggrin2:

Actually this can happen more often than not. To avoid radars being hit with HARM missile, Radars are generally kept in the back while launchers are kept near the border. If the enemy plane crosses the border, the SAM system will fire right under its nose. Since it is prohibited to fire when enemy plane is outside border, the SAM won't fire even if enemy plane is in range until border is breached by when the plane will be right in front of the missile launcher

You are making an assumption that the radar and the launcher are at same place. But this is not necessary. Static launch station can be connected to the radar by high speed cable and separated by some distance. Since the radars used are high powered ones, they generally have better range than the missile and the difference in distance won't affect the performance.

 

[porky_kicker]

Actually this can happen more often than not. To avoid radars being hit with HARM missile, Radars are generally kept in the back while launchers are kept near the border. If the enemy plane crosses the border, the SAM system will fire right under its nose. Since it is prohibited to fire when enemy plane is outside border, the SAM won't fire even if enemy plane is in range until border is breached by when the plane will be right in front of the missile launcher

You are making an assumption that the radar and the launcher are at same place. But this is not necessary. Static launch station can be connected to the radar by high speed cable and separated by some distance. Since the radars used are high powered ones, they generally have better range than the missile and the difference in distance won't affect the performance.

yeah........................................................

 

[porky_kicker]

akash sam combat command and control center

 

[HariPrasad-1]

Then, don't we need BARAK-8 from Israel anymore? We can replace that too if the seeker is compatible with such missile too, isn't it?

I think Israeli RADAR and Seeker are much advance. Ours will be very very cheap may be at 1/5 th of cost though it may not have high kill ration like MRSAM, it will have a very decent ration much better than Akash. It shall really be a great value for money. I do not think that any plane can escape from it though it may not be as effective as MRSAM against supersonic cruise missile.

 

[darshan978]

I think Israeli RADAR and Seeker are much advance. Ours will be very very cheap may be at 1/5 th of cost though it may not have high kill ration like MRSAM, it will have a very decent ration much better than Akash. It shall really be a great value for money. I do not think that any plane can escape from it though it may not be as effective as MRSAM against supersonic cruise missile.

You are just assuming things.........................

 

[Armand2REP]

You are just assuming things.........................

Israeli components are usually advanced because they have direct access to US components and bilateral tech. The downside is they are subject to US pressure otherwise they cannot even export the product.

 

[Kshithij]

Israeli components are usually advanced because they have direct access to US components and bilateral tech. The downside is they are subject to US pressure otherwise they cannot even export the product.

Correct, but they have been exporting to India for some time now. So, India has obtained their technology. India also has access to Russian technology. Now, it may have used it to develop its own radar.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

The seeker and radar in talk with respect to MRSAM, Are completely different from AKASH SAM ..

Akash NG is the one with active seeker and a new kind of radar, perhaps better than Israeli have to offer ..

 

[Armand2REP]

Correct, but they have been exporting to India for some time now. So, India has obtained their technology. India also has access to Russian technology. Now, it may have used it to develop its own radar.

Israel has been exporting to India because the US has not had a problem supporting India. If that ever changed you would find it to be a problem. You do not have these issues buying Russian or even French because our technology is proprietary.

 

[Indibomber]

I am not sure if the two systems are comparable. I am up for Indian systems but as of now Barak-8 is appears to be a better system. Barak-8 is lighter in weight and smaller in dimension and can secure bigger areas. Akash is faster.. and most importantly Indian. I will appreciate both the products on different levels and cannot compare the two.

 

[Kshithij]

I am not sure if the two systems are comparable. I am up for Indian systems but as of now Barak-8 is appears to be a better system. Barak-8 is lighter in weight and smaller in dimension and can secure bigger areas. Akash is faster.. and most importantly Indian. I will appreciate both the products on different levels and cannot compare the two.

Akash is too heavy to be used on ships. I am just saying that the BARAK-8 seekers which is imported from Israel can now be made indian.

Though, I must admit, I don't know if they are compatible with the radars

 

[Chinmoy]

practically you are right

but IMO and limited knowledge, if the missiles active seeker range is high enough to allow LOBL then it will count as a fire and forget system. in real life chances of that happening is pretty slim unless the pilot wants to commit suicide :biggrin2:

For something to target at a distance of 30km+ from ground, till date we cannot afford to have a Active seeker to work in Fire and Forget mode. We need to have a power source strong enough to support it for that long duration.
Passive seeker is another thing. Moreover are you aware whether we came up with a Passive or Active seeker this time?

 

[Kshithij]

For something to target at a distance of 30km+ from ground, till date we cannot afford to have a Active seeker to work in Fire and Forget mode. We need to have a power source strong enough to support it for that long duration.
Passive seeker is another thing. Moreover are you aware whether we came up with a Passive or Active seeker this time?

The motor itself can have a small dynamo for power. This is not a problem. Also, with speeds of 3Mach, 30km will be 30 seconds. Not much actually

 

[mayfair]

Israel has been exporting to India because the US has not had a problem supporting India. If that ever changed you would find it to be a problem. You do not have these issues buying Russian or even French because our technology is proprietary.

Russian yes, there will be problems but of a different sort.

French, would have been the case in the past, but your folks did renege on the Mistral deal, so that would make your future customers a tad wary.

 

[Armand2REP]

Russian yes, there will be problems but of a different sort.

French, would have been the case in the past, but your folks did renege on the Mistral deal, so that would make your future customers a tad wary.

If the best example you have is a leading member of NATO reneging on Russia for invading another European state, I rather wear that with a badge of pride and highly doubt seeing any prospective buyers using that as a sticking point.

 

[porky_kicker]

For something to target at a distance of 30km+ from ground, till date we cannot afford to have a Active seeker to work in Fire and Forget mode. We need to have a power source strong enough to support it for that long duration.
Passive seeker is another thing. Moreover are you aware whether we came up with a Passive or Active seeker this time?

IMO <30km can be supported in Fire and Forget mode. all in all it boils down to the OEM design/requirements obviously within SWaP constraints.

drdo has at its disposal a wide range of lithium thermal batteries to take care of onboard power requirements for missiles etc.

eg.
power (watts), life(s), weight(g)
4000, 300, 6500
500, 60, 570
160, 480, 1000
175, 40, 300
700, 200, 3000
336, 165, 1050
15000, 105, 5700
etc
etc
etc

basic battery design

these are manufactured by HBL and many of these are also exported.

unless drdo clarifies it is difficult to know for certain whether it is a Passive or Active seeker ,

anyways i have a feeling that given that akash mk1 is command guided , its highly possible they came up with active seeker (for terminal guidance) with a radar-supported inertial navigation system ( for mid course guidance ) for akash mk1s .