Akash Surface-to-air Missile

Archer

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The Akash block diagrams have SR-71s as targets. Check sayare's previous posts.
Thats just the brochure designer going and picking up any cool looking aircraft from google search to jazz up the staid DRDO block diagram which usually has a small triangle/square called aircraft in usual block diagrams. DRDO gives this job (brochure designing, webpage development etc) to DESIDOC which outsources it to local companies as it (DESIDOC) is very limited in manpower & scope (mainly maintaining a database & library). Those guys use Google image search to jazz up whatever material they get from DRDO and occasionally make big bloopers.
 
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Archer

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Its a good system, Good for Air defense of Airfield and Armored thrust..

But it would have been better if it have its own radar seeker..
The Akash was originally planned to have its own seeker. It was dropped on three accounts, technology then was not mature enough to field high power, long range seekers - the same reason why most missiles of a similar class employ either SARH or TVM guidance and not ARH seekers.

Second, the cost. The cost of a seeker ended up adding around 50% more to the missile cost.

Third, when they tested the Rajendra and Akash combo, the algorithms proved to be rugged enough to consistently get a very high Pk. The seeker was superfluous.

Today, putting a seeker into the Akash is possible. It will drive up cost but give it fire and forget capability.
 
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Archer

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Apparently Akash can not hit an Super Sonic aircraft and the chances of out running the Akash is HIGH!

Two main disadvantages are.


1) The speed of Akash is only Mach 2.5 and so an aircraft with full after burner can easily out run it at a distance.

2) The altitude reach of Akash is some what confusing, i have read it is only 20,000ft but there are other reports that seem to confuse the Radars visibility of 59,000ft with Missiles ability.
The Akash can intercept supersonic aircraft. The average loaded combat aircraft does not go much beyond Mach 1 anyhow, so that capability is somewhat academic. Usually, low - medium flying combat aircraft are at the speed range of 0.5-0.8M.

The missile specifications are given on the net.

The Akash is designed for a specific purpose. Take out low-medium flying aircraft with a ramjet missile with all the way thrust and under heavy ECM condition. This gives it a very high Pk (as it does not depend on coast energy to engage targets)

The other approach adopted in the Trishul, was to use a dual propulsion motor for the same purpose. A development of the same is being used in LRSAM project.
 

Payeng

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The Akash was originally planned to have its own seeker. It was dropped on three accounts, technology then was not mature enough to field high power, long range seekers - the same reason why most missiles of a similar class employ either SARH or TVM guidance and not ARH seekers.

Second, the cost. The cost of a seeker ended up adding around 50% more to the missile cost.

Third, when they tested the Rajendra and Akash combo, the algorithms proved to be rugged enough to consistently get a very high Pk. The seeker was superfluous.

Today, putting a seeker into the Akash is possible. It will drive up cost but give it fire and forget capability.
I think the use of SARH or the Active homing is decided by the factor of operational requirement, both are basically the same, the disadvantage for Active radar seeker is it is guided by its own seeker right from the word go giving it fire and forget capability, since the radiating power of the missile head is much lower compared to mother ship or ground based radar it finds it difficult to illuminate the target while a larger more powerful radar helps in filling this gap till the missile reach too close to the target to get a better image of the target.

While the advantage of Active radar homing is fire and forget capability, that means (in AAM mode) the jet fighter donot require to guide it thus escape the conflict zone once it is fired. SARH for SAM seems to be a better option as it have to deal with a variety of threats from small UAVs to new generation stealth fighters. While Active radar can be useful against ARM where the ground based search radars can be switched off to escape a ARM hit.
 

agentperry

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The Akash block diagrams have SR-71s as targets. Check sayare's previous posts.
so what we have pakistani navy chief in advertisement by govt of india in national dailies and jf-17 in HAL ad too...this is small blunder
 

vikaskumar11233

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I am totally assured that TATA will provide best and top class launchers to DRDO as this is the company which thinks about nation first then about themselves.
 

SPIEZ

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A S-300/400, Aster 30 or PAC-3 will be lucky to even engage the Blackbird let alone bring it down.

If that is the probability against an aircraft @ mach 3, what will be the probability at a ballistic missile with a speed of Mach 10+, that these missiles were designed to engage ?
 

Singh

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^^ Ballistic missiles have a set trajectory unlike Cruise missiles. If you can track it, you can take it out (easier said then done). But with a 25km range it won't be much useful.

PS: BM's typically would be at 20mach+ when Akash is asked to engage it.
 

sayareakd

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I am totally assured that TATA will provide best and top class launchers to DRDO as this is the company which thinks about nation first then about themselves.
Well with due respect to what tata has done so far, one of the leak telephone call said some thing else. pls L&T which is one of the company making launcher, can sa they build ATV, so better trust in them.

Let us judge them by what they will deliver. Both TATA and L&T are good and what they do.
 

steel

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Don't know if already posted

[video=youtube_share;SZr9xEknv-4]http://youtu.be/SZr9xEknv-4[/video]
 

Immanuel

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Akask is not meant to take on target like the SR-71, matter of fact SR-71 is the toughest man made bird ever made to hit. It has successfully managed to out run quite a few attempts to shoot it down. Though it is possible to shoot down the Sr-71 the fact that pretty much leads to failure to shoot it down is evasive maneuvers. The aircraft can maneuver at mach 3.2, thus allowing for dodging the missiles. It should also be very tough to shoot an F-22 technically since the raptor too manuevers at mach 1.8, for any missile to play catch is tough.

But Askah should easily manage most of normal aircraft types easily, far better than missiles of similar characters. The ramjet will allow the aircraft to maintain even speeds of well over mach 2.5 to mach 3.5. Akash does have a max speed of mach 3.5.
 

Patriot

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Well with due respect to what tata has done so far, one of the leak telephone call said some thing else. pls L&T which is one of the company making launcher, can sa they build ATV, so better trust in them.

Let us judge them by what they will deliver. Both TATA and L&T are good and what they do.
Any business group thinks first about their profit & future business then comes the country.

There going to be many private players in years to come like we already know TATAs , Mahindras, L& T, Sundaram, Ashok Leyland, Punj Loyed & Reliance Group. As a country we can not be self sustained in defense just being dependent on couple of private players instead we need to have scores of them with financial muscle to carry out their own R & D, in respective defense technology & production.

For new technology development & world class platforms, we can not solely depend on DRDO's labs
 

SPIEZ

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^^ Ballistic missiles have a set trajectory unlike Cruise missiles. If you can track it, you can take it out (easier said then done). But with a 25km range it won't be much useful.

PS: BM's typically would be at 20mach+ when Akash is asked to engage it.
It varies with the range of BM. For a short range/tactical BM 10~15 mach is expected.
The trajectory may be same, but a flight path of a BM may be highly erratic, that's why the CEP of BM's are usually higher then others. Also there is the consideration of BM's breaking up on re entry like the Scuds.
 

trackwhack

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The only limiting factor to the Akash shooting down an SR-71 is the altitude. The plane is not going to do Mach 3 unless its above 20km. And at those altitudes, the Akash ramjet will fail due to the thinness of air.

However, if the SR 71 is below lets say 15km, it is possible to shoot it down and probably very likely to be shot down. At Mach 2.5 the Akash covers 20 km in 30 seconds. That how much time the pilot has to detect and scoot and that is not enough time to gain 3 km in altitude considering the peak rate of climb is 60 m/s and the missile is catching up with you at 800 m/s. Not to mention, it will never be just one missile. For the blackbird to survive an akash battery, it has to maintain its altitude at 20km. If it is within akash's altitude range, it will have to deal with not one but several and chances are it will be shot down.

It is stupid to say that something cannot be shot down. The Titanic could not be sunk you know.
 
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Archer

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I think the use of SARH or the Active homing is decided by the factor of operational requirement, both are basically the same, the disadvantage for Active radar seeker is it is guided by its own seeker right from the word go giving it fire and forget capability, since the radiating power of the missile head is much lower compared to mother ship or ground based radar it finds it difficult to illuminate the target while a larger more powerful radar helps in filling this gap till the missile reach too close to the target to get a better image of the target.
SARH & ARH are not one and the same. A SARH requires radiation from the GBR system for its receiver to pick up & home in on, whereas the ARH can finish the job (provided it can evade jamming) even if the GBR cuts out after a period of time.

Nor does it work this way - that the ARH is active from the word go. Well, that may work if your missile slant range is less than ~20 km, as the typical active seeker can lock on at that range. But mostly, how it works is the missile gets to a specified point using proportional navigation & INS/Command guidance inputs, and then switches to its onboard seeker for the end game. This is what makes it fire and forget (after a while).

While the advantage of Active radar homing is fire and forget capability, that means (in AAM mode) the jet fighter donot require to guide it thus escape the conflict zone once it is fired. SARH for SAM seems to be a better option as it have to deal with a variety of threats from small UAVs to new generation stealth fighters. While Active radar can be useful against ARM where the ground based search radars can be switched off to escape a ARM hit.
Fighters or any launch platform do have to guide the ARH because the typical seeker lock on range is around ~20 km. Even if you double that, add jamming & see the range reduce. Basically, how it works is like this - you detect the target, fire the missile, guide it to the range at which the seeker can get an assured lock, and then cut the guidance from the ground or the fighter. This means you can now remove the launch platform, radar etc from the engagement cycle. SARH on the other hand has a receiver only seeker which homes in on the reflected radar energy from the launch platform's radar or the ground based radar. So it has to keep the target illuminated throughout whike the SARH missile homes in. It was supposedly a more accurate method than seeker less missiles. In real life though, the SARH missiles like the Sparrow, AA-10 have had a lousy record.

The Akash employs command guidance to get near a certain range to the target, when its warhead explodes with an effective radius of around 2X that distance, giving a single missile a lethal SSKP of 0.88 (single shot kill probability). The BLR (Rajendra) has significant ECCM capability allowing for the missile to accurately hit targets employing ECM. The missile can then trigger its warhead based on its automated fuze, and if that is jammed, timed or manual intervention.

Overall, its a fairly decent system.

If an ARH seeker was to be employed, then the radar could cut out after the first 15 odd km of guidance. Might make a difference in terms of facing ARM equipped enemy's. But even so, the radar and control center are separated. That does give the crew decent survivability.
 

Singh

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Akask is not meant to take on target like the SR-71, matter of fact SR-71 is the toughest man made bird ever made to hit. It has successfully managed to out run quite a few attempts to shoot it down. Though it is possible to shoot down the Sr-71 the fact that pretty much leads to failure to shoot it down is evasive maneuvers. The aircraft can maneuver at mach 3.2, thus allowing for dodging the missiles. It should also be very tough to shoot an F-22 technically since the raptor too manuevers at mach 1.8, for any missile to play catch is tough.

But Askah should easily manage most of normal aircraft types easily, far better than missiles of similar characters. The ramjet will allow the aircraft to maintain even speeds of well over mach 2.5 to mach 3.5. Akash does have a max speed of mach 3.5.
The higher the speed, less maneuverable the craft is. Mig-25's of IAF with a top speed of close to 3 mach also made it difficult for SAMs to target them.

Akash is a Shorad/SR-SAM anything will be able to outrun it, it will be used to take out drones, choppers, very low flying crafts(PAF's attack crafts for eg), CMs etc.
 

Singh

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It varies with the range of BM. For a short range/tactical BM 10~15 mach is expected.
I don't disagree.

The trajectory may be same, but a flight path of a BM may be highly erratic, that's why the CEP of BM's are usually higher then others.
Explain your statement ? How does having a high or low CEP matter to a BMD ? If this was the case then India should field Scuds over Agni ? A high cep means a missile follows a quasi ballistic missile path ?

"A ballistic missile is a missile that follows a sub-orbital ballistic flightpath with the objective of delivering one or more warheads to a predetermined target. The missile is only guided during the relatively brief initial powered phase of flight and its course is subsequently governed by the laws of orbital mechanics and ballistics."

BMD exists because despite a ballistic missile's tremendous speed to the tune of 25mach (aka 7-8km/second) it obeys the law of ballistics, which can determine its trajectory and allow an ABM to take it out.

That's why all the superpower are trying to develop BMs that follow a quasi ballistic missile path.

Also there is the consideration of BM's breaking up on re entry like the Scuds.
well then there are whole gamut of things to consider for launch failures, disintegration of warhead etc.
 

Deepankar

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In 1967 a stripped down Mig-25 set a world record by achieving a speed of 1,852 MPH and another aircraft set the altitude record by soaring to 118,898 feet.
But it cannot sustain a Mach 2.8 at that altitude for long ...

The Intercept probability by a Mig 25 Foxbat :





1.Ballistic missiles have a set trajectory unlike Cruise missiles.

2.If you can track it, you can take it out (easier said then done). But with a 25km range it won't be much useful.

3.BM's typically would be at 20mach+ when Akash is asked to engage it.
1. WRONG ... the directed re-entry vehicle can do maneuver ( ever heard of BGRV ... :rolleyes: ) .... but as our main advisory is Pakistan so nothing can be said ..!!

2. WRONG ... are you saying a SAM with max speed of Mach 2.5 can take down a BM with re-entry speed of Mach 6 ( considering a SRBM ) ... Rajendra Radar cant track a target moving at that Speed and feed it's co-ordinate back to Akash infact no Radar can :)confused:) ..!!

3.:wat:



for more info :

Ballistic Missile Basics

:pound::rofl::rotflmao:
 
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SPIEZ

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I don't disagree.



Explain your statement ? How does having a high or low CEP matter to a BMD ? If this was the case then India should field Scuds over Agni ? A high cep means a missile follows a quasi ballistic missile path ?

"A ballistic missile is a missile that follows a sub-orbital ballistic flightpath with the objective of delivering one or more warheads to a predetermined target. The missile is only guided during the relatively brief initial powered phase of flight and its course is subsequently governed by the laws of orbital mechanics and ballistics."

BMD exists because despite a ballistic missile's tremendous speed to the tune of 25mach (aka 7-8km/second) it obeys the law of ballistics, which can determine its trajectory and allow an ABM to take it out.

That's why all the superpower are trying to develop BMs that follow a quasi ballistic missile path.
When I meant they re not accurate, I meant that their flight path can vary, even the launchers cannot have precise location on where they ll strike.
So it becomes all the more harder for ABMs to track the incoming and wavering missile and nuetralise it.

well then there are whole gamut of things to consider for launch failures, disintegration of warhead etc.
Read up on the failures of PAC 2 in the Gulf wars, the radars had to deal with the disintegration of the warhead on re entry ( This supposedly occured because the range of the scuds had been increased to hit deeper targets) which caused a big problem for the radars.

Launch failures we don't have to worry about, cos the missile will blow in the enemy territory itself.
 

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