AK-203 Scrap

[Super Flanker]

wasn't ak's handguard usually two piece?,in theory we could add two different blocks of different handguards,we could add vanilla,then some mlok at the top

I think so that it is definitely safe to say that Modern Variants of Ak series rifles like AK-203 come with an option to have either a rail or an upper handguard. Upper rail if we use in our AK-203s, than we will room for more attachments.

 

[Love Charger]

I suggest these two weapons as standard issue equipment for Indian army

 

[Angel of War]

If we could do this to our slr , it would have been pretty good .

Take a Look at this Beauty .it is a modified SLR

 

[NotASussyBoi]

View attachment 155928
View attachment 155929View attachment 155930
I suggest these two weapons as standard issue equipment for Indian army

the carbine imo should have side rails and a telescopic stock

 

[NotASussyBoi]

Take a Look at this Beauty .it is a modified SLR
View attachment 155931

sexy slr no heresy detected

 

[Kuldeepm952]

No 'sources' but an educated guess.

It makes no sense to have 3 different calibres in one squad (5.56x45 mm, 7.62x51 mm and 7.62x39 mm) in addition to 9x19 mm.

7.62x39 mm = .300 Blackout, perfect for CQB and upto 300 m.

The arrangement I made was based on the least amount of effort Indian Army would need to make to have a modern fighting unit.

I've yet to see any UGBL for an MLOK based free floating rifle which can be appropriated cheaply. Makes the most sense to give 1 x AK 203 UGBL to every maneuver element.

We have also seen Sig 716i DMR configuration in certain cases.

You don't need an assistant LMG Gunner when using the IMI Negev NG7. That is essentially a rifle.

RCL carrier can be made to carry a rifle.

The ammunition carrier can be made to carry a Sig 716i to act as a spotter for the Fire Support Element.

This as it is would need no extra equipment or guns. Perfect for the lazy SOBs behind the INSAS disaster.

So to re-phrase :

Squad Leader
1 x (AK 203) (7.62x39 mm)
1 x (Browning Hi Power) (9x19 mm)

Maneuver Element 1 :

Rifleman
1 x AK 203 (7.62x39 mm) (UGBL)

Rifleman
2 x Sig 716i (7.62x51 mm)

Maneuver Element 2 :

Rifleman
1 x AK 203 (7.62x39 mm) (UGBL)

Rifleman
2 x Sig 716i (7.62x51 mm) (1 DMR Config)
1 x Browning Hi Power (9x19 mm) (2IC)

Fire Support :

LMG Gunner
1 x Negev NG7 LMG/SAW (7.62x51 mm)

Rifleman / Missileer
1 x Carl Gustav RCL (84 mm)
1 x AK 203 (7.62x39 mm)

Rifleman/ Ammunition Carrier
1 x Sig 716i (7.62x51 mm)

That's in Kashmir and come on as you know RR guys composition is not the composition of general IA infantry. Most of our Basic guys still have those strap magzine carries and just a rifle as standard issue.
GP series of Russian ubgl are made to fit ak 203 and i doubt that a nato 40mm ubgl will fit this rifle, only arsenal produces a ubgl made to fit ak but the design of handguard on ak 203 is different. India doesn't produces GP series ammo. Now if no soln arises and we go with gp ubgl then another member coming in our ammo circus. I would not assume anything by seeing some a bunch of sigs who have been probably upgraded with units funds to infer anything. This is IA, where standardization is almost a taboo as it seems. The day even a RDS is made standard issue is the day IA might be serious about things.
Let's see, 4 lakhs of 5.56mm carbine is no small number, and i think they were really planning to have as many multiple type of ammo.

But seriously, adopting a 7.62*39mm rifle for line infantry is a serious climbing down the ladder of modernization.

 

[Angel of War]

@Love Charger

 

[Super Flanker]

sexy slr no heresy detected

Well I like the look of the SLR to be honest, especially the Black colour scheme SLR looks really asthetic to me. But an AK-203 like this one looks better than it:-

 

[Angel of War]

Well I like the look of the SLR to be honest, especially the Black colour scheme SLR looks really asthetic to me. But an AK-203 like this one looks better than it:-

View attachment 155936
View attachment 155938View attachment 155939

It's not about the looks , it's about the capabilities

 

[Super Flanker]

It's not about the looks , it's about the capabilities

Well I was talking about looks and not the Capabilities here.

 

[Dark Sorrow]

No. 800 is the maximum Firing Range of AK-203. This I got From Wikipedia. You can check for yourself.

I have attached link for Rosoboronexport 's page for AK-203

7.62mm Kalashnikov Assault Rifle AK203 | Catalog Rosoboronexport

Great Performance Runs in the FamilyThere is no limit to perfection in Small Arms design and modern iteration of the legendary AK platform proves it true. The 7.62mm AK203 is a p...

roe.ru

 

[Dark Sorrow]

@Dark Sorrow please list the per unit cost of SiG-716 and AK-203. Thank you in advance.

Exact pricing fro SiG-716i is difficult to obtain as the deal to procure SiG-716 was a combination of SiG-716, it spares and 7.62mm ammo.
My exception is SiG-716i cost us somewhere between ₹70,000 to ₹1,00,000.
AK-203 is expedited to cost us around ₹80,000

 

[Angel of War]

I see no change in nda era too
Problem is with armed forces and that's it

To some extent you are right . There are a lot of other things involved. I won't be discussing them here because it may sound too controversial

 

[NotASussyBoi]

To some extent you are right . There are a lot of other things involved. I won't be discussing them here because it may sound too controversial

this forum is made up of controversies jk

 

[Dark Sorrow]

If you have any source to confirm that the metal for the barrel would be Imported from Russia than kindly share it here with us please. And besides, even if it is true, you need to keep in mind that AK-203 will be produced in India under a joint venture between Russia's Kalashnikov Concern (42%), Rosoboronexport (7.5%) and India's Ordnance Factory Board (50.5%). So Both Russia and India will be Contributing parts for the production of the rifles.

This was mentioned in a conference and details will be made available one the deal is made public.

Also there some Articles pointing out that in the future, both Russia and India could potentially Export AK-203s to 3rd party Countries.

These are nothing more than feel good statement propagated by pro-government sources.
Why would Russians want to split the profit if they can make 100% profit by selling AK-203 themselves. Russians are more than capable to make these rifle themselves. They don't need India's help or partnership.
Russians will always try to promote their own defense industry.

Most of the problems are resolved with regards to INSAS? I never knew this but regardless of that, INSAS is not as good as AK-203 in terms of performance.

All design related issues were resolved by 2003-2004. The only issues remaining were related to QC by OFB.
With OFB manufacturing AK-203, AK203 will also face QC issue.

Effective firing range of INSAS :-
1.400m (Insas Rifle)
2.600 m: Point targets (Insas LMG)
3.700 m: Area target (Insas LMG)

Compare that to AK-203 which has an Effective firing range of : 400–800 m (440–870 yd) (based on sight adjustments)

5.56 mm are more accurate over compared to 7.62mm x 39 mm due to their relative flat trajectory, high speed and stable flight.

Effective firing range for AK-203 is reported to be around 300m and not 800m.
7.62mmx39mm round tends to tumble a lot.
For around 100 m bullet follow flat trajectory, then drops around 5-10 inches per 100 meters.

 

[Dark Sorrow]

At ranges like 500-600 meters +, I don't think so that any Soldier would use any AR in full auto mode. The recoil will be to much and you won't get many hits as the gun will be mostly spraying bullets all over the place. Modern Assault Rifles generally have 4 firing modes :

• 1. Safe
• 2.Semi-Automatic
• 3.Burst Automatic
• 4.Full Automatic

So if you are going to use an AR for long ranges than you need to use it in semi automatic or single firing mode.

View attachment 155911

In more than 95% of combat assault riles are either used in single shot mode or burst fire mode.
Fully automatic mode is used only in video games and movies.

 

[Corvus Splendens]

At this point just bloody redesign and modify the venerable slr .

We could've modernized the FAL like this

 

[SwordOfDarkness]

Exact pricing fro SiG-716i is difficult to obtain as the deal to procure SiG-716 was a combination of SiG-716, it spares and 7.62mm ammo.
My exception is SiG-716i cost us somewhere between ₹70,000 to ₹1,00,000.
AK-203 is expedited to cost us around ₹80,000

AK will cost that including the factory and lines, not just the rifle.

 

[SwordOfDarkness]

In more than 95% of combat assault riles are either used in single shot mode or burst fire mode.
Fully automatic mode is used only in video games and movies.

With well trained troops, Full auto is better. Gives more capabilities, and as long aas they re disciplined, dont waste ammo.

With conscripts/less trained, burst is better to prevent trigger happy people from wasting ammo. Thats why US had burst in vietnam, but used full auto in afghanistan.

 

[Super Flanker]

This was mentioned in a conference and details will be made available one the deal is made public

If you have the Link of this press conference than please send it to me. I will watch it myself.

These are nothing more than feel good statement propagated by pro-government sources.
Why would Russians want to split the profit if they can make 100% profit by selling AK-203 themselves. Russians are more than capable to make these rifle themselves. They don't need India's help or partnership.
Russians will always try to promote their own defense industry.

Russia has been a very trusted Partner of India for many decades. They are far more Trustworthy as compared to westerners. This is something we cannot deny. So why you think that they would not want to share profits on any co-produced exports?

For example let's take brahmos Aerospace. Brahmos Aerospace is a joint venture between Russia and DRDO. Phillipines has ordered Brahmos. As it is a joint venture, profit is being shared by both the countries. So Russia is very much Ready to share the Profit.

Same case will be with AK-203, it will be a joint venture and Both will split the profit among the 2 Incase IRRPL receives and order From a 3rd party.

If Russia is ready to split profit for brahmos than why do you think that they won't do it for AK-203 even though they are fully capable of making AK-203 themselves? Like this there are many cases in which profit was shared between Russia and India in different fields of Co-operation even though the Russians were fully capable of doing it themselves, refer to the Internet for this.

All design related issues were resolved by 2003-2004. The only issues remaining were related to QC by OFB.
With OFB manufacturing AK-203, AK203 will also face QC issue.

Where did you get this information From exactly? may I Ask? I have checked several sources on the internet and not a single one is mentioning about so called INSAS getting all of its design related issues were resolved by 2003-2004!

You can check articles on INSAS. All of them are Critisising INSAS. Lol you can check on net and you will get tons and tons of articles in which flaws and downsides of INSAS are still being talked about. Before and after AK-203 deal.

5.56 mm are more accurate over compared to 7.62mm x 39 mm due to their relative flat trajectory, high speed and stable flight.

1st of all, You can check reports on the internet in which it is mentioned that Troops in combat areas and those conducting counter-terrorism or anti-Naxal operations are said to routinely swap out their INSAS rifles for the AK-47 or other imported rifles.

source:-

EXPLAINED: The Trigger For India's Switch To AK-203 From INSAS Rifle And How It Targets Atmanirbhar Boost - News18

India is set to undertake the domestic production of the Russian AK-203, which will replace the INSAS rifle as the standard issue rifle for troops

www.news18.com

more sources are there on the

Also the INSAS rifle, with its smaller 5.56×45mm calibre bullets, was regarded as built more to injure and incapacitate targets rather than neutralise them. So even at long ranges, though INSAS might be more accurate than it is Still not as deadly as the AK-203.

Disclaimer : This part of your post I might have misquoted so you are free to correct me.

Effective firing range for AK-203 is reported to be around 300m and not 800m.

Agreed.

7.62mmx39mm round tends to tumble a lot.
For around 100 m bullet follow flat trajectory, then drops around 5-10 inches per 100 meters.

Agreed.