AK-203 Scrap

Angel of War

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Is this the gypsy you're talking about?
View attachment 156110
Similar to WWII American Willys Jeep and Chinese BJ212 in the 1960s
Don't go by the looks . It is a very capable vehicle for cross country . It can even be modified to do anything . It can become an atgm carrier or an electronic warfare platform.
I feel that this is more like a commuter vehicle within the army, and cannot be used as a vehicle for long-distance maneuvering combat like the American JLTV and the Chinese Dongfeng Warrior.
It is not only used as a commuter vehicle , I've sent you the images . It can carry an infantry section of roughly 8 men over long ranges . It will be eventually replaced by ASLV and LAMVs.
Can not really improve the mobile combat capability of the army
I wonder why you'll say so.
View attachment 156111
As for the ALSV you mentioned, the specific information I can find is that India has ordered 1,300 vehicles in 2021. If you say they are only equipped with anti-tank troops, SF, reconnaissance, and a few other troops, they have not formed similar to the US IBCT. troops capable of maneuvering
You can compare Indian army mechanised brigades to US IBCT more accurately since just like US IBCT it is capable of maneuvering and has all combat support arms in it's structure . And by this year end , we will get the IBG structure for our corps , these will be smaller than a division but larger than a brigade .[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]
 

Angel of War

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I am familiar with the four reorganized plain infantry divisions in India, that is to expand one infantry brigade and armored regiment in the infantry division into a mechanized infantry brigade, so that at least one brigade has strong assault capabilities, which is essentially a mechanized infantry division. cheap alternatives

This is the first time I have heard of the specific establishment of the Indian artillery brigade. Why is it assigned like this? An artillery brigade deploying 3 calibers of artillery? Shouldn't 120mm mortars be deployed in battalion, 105mm in regiment, 130mm in division, 155mm in army?
Or should this artillery brigade be deployed in a decentralized manner during the war? Doesn't that cause a lot of unnecessary trouble for the commander?
And what is the point of dispersing the precious 155mm artillery? A Chinese artillery brigade has at least 64 155 guns
There are not 4 RAPIDs , there are 8
 

Angel of War

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I am familiar with the four reorganized plain infantry divisions in India, that is to expand one infantry brigade and armored regiment in the infantry division into a mechanized infantry brigade, so that at least one brigade has strong assault capabilities, which is essentially a mechanized infantry division. cheap alternatives
Slightly incorrect . There are 2 armoured and 2 mechanised regiments in one armoured brigade of a RAPID division . The other 2 brigades are either infantry or mechanised brigades . So each RAPID will have 2 or 3 armoured regiments too along with mechanised regiments . One regiment will have 59 tanks . Also there are 8 RAPIDs in indian army .
This is the first time I have heard of the specific establishment of the Indian artillery brigade. Why is it assigned like this? An artillery brigade deploying 3 calibers of artillery? Shouldn't 120mm mortars be deployed in battalion, 105mm in regiment, 130mm in division, 155mm in army?
Or should this artillery brigade be deployed in a decentralized manner during the war? Doesn't that cause a lot of unnecessary trouble for the commander?
And what is the point of dispersing the precious 155mm artillery? A Chinese artillery brigade has at least 64 155 guns
chinese artillery brigades attatched to group army HQ has 64 guns , not their regular CABGs , this should be compared to indian army independent artillery brigades attatched to all corps of indian army , do not compare Group army Arty brigade with indian divisional artillery brigades , compare equals with equals . Indian army artillery brigades in divisions have all three types of artillery - medium , field and light besides a surveillance and Target accquistion unit with Weapon locating Radars , battlefield surveillance radars and drones . More types of calibre per brigade increases availability options of different calibres for different mission profiles. And yes , the divisonal artillery brigade is decentralised during war , the main attacking brigade gets 155mm guns and the other two brigades get field guns .
At the battalion level the mortar artillery is 81 mm
 
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Angel of War

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Is there a specific source? All sources I see are 4,
The 12th Infantry Division under the 7th Army of the Southern Command and the 72nd Infantry Division under the 17th Army of the Eastern Command should still be formed
The sources you're reffering to have outdated info . Back in 2001 indian army had 4 RAPIDs , after operation parakram indian army raised More RAPIDs. 72nd infantry division is shelved , it was replaced with another infantry division which had been sitting idle in rachi . 12th RAPID in Jaisalmer is fully operational for a good time now . There will also be a few more divisions which will be converted into RAPIDs or more armoured brigades will be raised in the future as suggested by army's order for 582 more battle tanks ( 464 T90s and 118 Arjuns) . Also we call them " Corps " not "armies" an army in india is a command of three corps . You can call Eastern command as " eastern army" but you can't call XVII corps as an army . An army should have atleast 180,000 troops in three corps of 60,000 each .
 

Angel of War

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The information I have seen shows that the establishment of the Indian armored regiment is 46 vehicles, and some information shows that there will be a certain reserve vehicles, which may be 59 vehicles as you said
The holding is 59 vehicles per regiment . 45 operational and 14 replacement/reserve.
 

Angel of War

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@L1551L if you are interested in knowing more about indian army divisions and their equipment and organisation. You can share your thoughts on this thread
The current thread is about discussion regarding AK203 and it has been going off topic for a while now
 

MisraZ

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50% of this thread is : Ak203 is bad
5% : Ak203 is ok
5%: you know nothing I know something
39.5%: Civil war amongst DFI memberans.
0.5%: My useless post.

Ak203 isn't going anywhere. It has gained to much political traction to be scrapped now. We can seethe and cope but that is what it is. For the next 2-3 decades bulk of our fighting force will be armed with 7.62x39mm rifle, thanks to our visionary political and military leaders.
 

Angel of War

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50% of this thread is : Ak203 is bad
5% : Ak203 is ok
5%: you know nothing I know something
39.5%: Civil war amongst DFI memberans.
0.5%: My useless post.

Ak203 isn't going anywhere. It has gained to much political traction to be scrapped now. We can seethe and cope but that is what it is. For the next 2-3 decades bulk of our fighting force will be armed with 7.62x39mm rifle, thanks to our visionary political and military leaders.
very logical conlusion . Now is the right time to close this thread . Nuff has been said by all sides:dude:
 

Super Flanker

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very logical conlusion . Now is the right time to close this thread . Nuff has been said by all sides:dude:
I had already said this once and I say this once Again, we should close this thread. Most of the people are fighting here. Enough Discusssion has taken place.

@WolfPack86 bro please the next time you Post an article or video, please don't dont make a separate thread for it if the source is IDU or IDRW, please. For others, I guess you can open a separate thread.

Thank you everyone.
 

AUSTERLITZ

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There is also the so-called light infantry, which is just motorized infantry, which is mainly driven by trucks. (It would be surprising if India could not even do this.) The Indian infantry division has only one tank regiment as a mobile force ( It is actually a tank battalion of 46 vehicles) plus an artillery brigade (105, 122), about 4-5 artillery regiments, 18 guns in a regiment (equivalent to artillery battalions in other countries)
Indian army has Fourteen Army corps divided into six geographic commands and a training command.
These 14 corps's have under them a total of 40 divisions.

30 infantry and mountain divisions(motorized with 3:1 classic organization infantry brigades to arty brigade)
4 RAPID infantry divisions (2 inf+1 arm +1 arty brigades) for plains.
3 Armoured Divisions (3 arm + 1 mech + 1 SP art +recce,support)
3 Artillery divisions [2 x 155mm gun arty brig +1 rocket(1 smerch reg+2 pinaka) +1 missile(brahmos +srbm?+SATA reg with drones,WLRradars)

There are also 8 independent armoured brigades,plus several mechanized independent brigades,plus independent artillery,air defence,engineer and infantry brigades.2 mountain divisions and all plains inf divisions have an armoured regiment in support.

In total
340 light infantry battalions(4 inf companies+1 supoort co +hq)
50 mechanized infantry battalions
10 special forces battalion
5 parachute infantry battlions
~100 COIN focused infantry battalions( Rashtriya rifles 63 and Assam rifles 40)
65 armoured regiments
220 or more artillery regiments(18 per regiment plus reserves - includes field reg with 105mm in mountains,155mm in medium and SP,20 odd rocket regiments with MBRL)

Armoured regiment in IA is 55 tanks(45 in 3 squadrons plus 10 attrition reserve)
Armoured brigades in RAPID have 2 tank regiments plus 2 mechanized infantry battalions(90 +20 tanks and 120 IFVs)
Independent armoured brigades have 3 x tank regiments + 1 BMP Battalion + 1 Recce squadron + 1 Arty Regiment (135 +30 tanks ,60 BMPs etc).For perspective ,a US army armoured BrigadeCT has 87 abrams and 152 bradleys.

An armoured Division has 6 T-90 tank regiments and 4 BMP mechanized battalions for a huge mass of 330 T-90s and 240 BMP-2s plus other assets.

For ex - 31 armoured div org

31 Armored Division's Orbat now is:
Division HQ

Reconnaissance Regiment(Wheeled IFV)

Divisional Signal Battalion
Defense & Encampment Company
Attack Helicopter Squadron (Mi-35)
Engineer Regiment
Provost unit (Military Police)

Armored Brigade
2 x armored regiments(T-90)
2 x mechanized infantry battalions(BMP-2)

Armored Brigade
2 x armored regiments
1 X mechanized infantry battalion

Armored Brigade
2 x armored regiments
1 x mechanized infantry battalion

Armored Artillery Brigade-
3 x medium SP regiments(155mm K9 vajra)
SATA battery with UAVs (Surveillance and Target Acquisition)


Independent Mechanized Air Defense Brigade-
Tungushka SP Gun/Missile regiment
Akash SAM Regiment

EME Battalion (Electrical & Mechanical Engineers for maintenance)

Supply-
Transport
Truck companies
Tank Transporter unit

Medical-
3 Field Ambulances
Other units
 

Angel of War

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Indian army has Fourteen Army corps divided into six geographic commands and a training command.
These 14 corps's have under them a total of 40 divisions.

30 infantry and mountain divisions(motorized with 3:1 classic organization infantry brigades to arty brigade)
4 RAPID infantry divisions (2 inf+1 arm +1 arty brigades) for plains.
3 Armoured Divisions (3 arm + 1 mech + 1 SP art +recce,support)
3 Artillery divisions [2 x 155mm gun arty brig +1 rocket(1 smerch reg+2 pinaka) +1 missile(brahmos +srbm?+SATA reg with drones,WLRradars)

There are also 8 independent armoured brigades,plus several mechanized independent brigades,plus independent artillery,air defence,engineer and infantry brigades.2 mountain divisions and all plains inf divisions have an armoured regiment in support.

In total
340 light infantry battalions(4 inf companies+1 supoort co +hq)
50 mechanized infantry battalions
10 special forces battalion
5 parachute infantry battlions
~100 COIN focused infantry battalions( Rashtriya rifles 63 and Assam rifles 40)
65 armoured regiments
220 or more artillery regiments(18 per regiment plus reserves - includes field reg with 105mm in mountains,155mm in medium and SP,20 odd rocket regiments with MBRL)

Armoured regiment in IA is 55 tanks(45 in 3 squadrons plus 10 attrition reserve)
Armoured brigades in RAPID have 2 tank regiments plus 2 mechanized infantry battalions(90 +20 tanks and 120 IFVs)
Independent armoured brigades have 3 x tank regiments + 1 BMP Battalion + 1 Recce squadron + 1 Arty Regiment (135 +30 tanks ,60 BMPs etc).For perspective ,a US army armoured BrigadeCT has 87 abrams and 152 bradleys.

An armoured Division has 6 T-90 tank regiments and 4 BMP mechanized battalions for a huge mass of 330 T-90s and 240 BMP-2s plus other assets.

For ex - 31 armoured div org

31 Armored Division's Orbat now is:
Division HQ

Reconnaissance Regiment(Wheeled IFV)

Divisional Signal Battalion
Defense & Encampment Company
Attack Helicopter Squadron (Mi-35)
Engineer Regiment
Provost unit (Military Police)

Armored Brigade
2 x armored regiments(T-90)
2 x mechanized infantry battalions(BMP-2)

Armored Brigade
2 x armored regiments
1 X mechanized infantry battalion

Armored Brigade
2 x armored regiments
1 x mechanized infantry battalion

Armored Artillery Brigade-
3 x medium SP regiments(155mm K9 vajra)
SATA battery with UAVs (Surveillance and Target Acquisition)


Independent Mechanized Air Defense Brigade-
Tungushka SP Gun/Missile regiment
Akash SAM Regiment

EME Battalion (Electrical & Mechanical Engineers for maintenance)

Supply-
Transport
Truck companies
Tank Transporter unit

Medical-
3 Field Ambulances
Other units
there are 8 RAPIDs . 36th , 4th , 18th , 10th , 7th , 14th , 12th , 24th
 

Angel of War

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When did this happen?Or are you adding independent arm brig/mech brigade to inf divisions?
nope , go to the second page of indian army divisions thread on DFI . Your doubts will be cleared . This 4 RAPID division structure is very old from around 2001 ( Op parakram days )
 

Angel of War

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When did this happen?Or are you adding independent arm brig/mech brigade to inf divisions?
These are the indian army RAPIDs with their locations
14 RAPID - Dehradun
7 RAPID - firozpur ( converted somewhere in 2020 )
36th RAPID - Sagar
12 RAPID - Jaisalmer
24 RAPID - Bikaner
18 RAPID - Kota
4 RAPID - allahabad
10th RAPID - Akhnoor
 

vidhwanshak

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Is this the gypsy you're talking about?
View attachment 156110
Similar to WWII American Willys Jeep and Chinese BJ212 in the 1960s
I feel that this is more like a commuter vehicle within the army, and cannot be used as a vehicle for long-distance maneuvering combat like the American JLTV and the Chinese Dongfeng Warrior.
Can not really improve the mobile combat capability of the army
View attachment 156111
As for the ALSV you mentioned, the specific information I can find is that India has ordered 1,300 vehicles in 2021. If you say they are only equipped with anti-tank troops, SF, reconnaissance, and a few other troops, they have not formed similar to the US IBCT. troops capable of maneuvering
Why IA uses Gypsy?



Chinese Dongfeng capabilities are questionable
 

Angel of War

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I basically don't watch WION,
The things about China in it are basically nonsense.
you are partially correct , they do tend to exagerate things a bit . But not all of it is nonsense . They do a good job at unfolding the events happening across china which are otherwise hidden away from world view due to strict censorship regime of CCP
 

Angel of War

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Some of the things he reported happened to me, and the truth was so far from the reports, so I never believed it,
Are you living inside china at the moment ? Then you might know better than me that CCP tends to do a lot of censorship
 

Angel of War

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Last year he had a report saying that all the power in my hometown was cut off and the factory was forced to shut down.
But my uncle said that his factory has no problems with electricity
@L1551L indian media can be very misleading at times so take their reports With a pinch of salt , their goal is maximum TRP . But i can guarantee you they are much more credible than Global times or CGTN
 

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