Ajit Doval

[BreathOfAnnhilation]

To add to the above point, the target audience here imo is the police whose responsibility is to ensure internal security of the country. Who is going to defeat the internal enemies and breaking India forces? It's organization like the ED, CBI, NIA etc etc.

 

[ezsasa]

I think this line is very true. He could have highlighted the importance of internal warfare without discounting the possibility of external warfare, or trying to mitigate the seriousness of it.

It could also provoke fear in the general public if a war DOES break out, and they feel that it's going to be expensive and unaffordable.

And as you rightly said, it could give the traitorous Commies and the Opposition a mighty chance to force the government to stop posturing and reducing military clout, or trying to frighten the public into accepting peace agreements or diplomacy by quoting the NSA's ominous assertion that wars are expensive and unaffordable.

Of course, these are distortions, but it's not like anyone can stop them from making those, considering that this is a beautiful democracy.

could have would have are irrelevant, dice has already been rolled. you can play with what you have on the day.

Doval has given an opportunity to talk about IW, it’s upto people to take the message forward without diluting it.

 

[Optimistic Nihilist]

But did US go into a direct conflict with USSR? Nope. So what's the hue and cry about Doval saying Wars are going to be very dangerous and not cost effective. And this is not taking in account the threat of Nuclear showdown and mutually assured destruction. Wars between nuclear states should be the last resort. Not the first.

That is really not a logical comparison. India and China are neighboring countries that share borders. USA and USSR couldn't have gone to war with each other directly, simply because they are apart from each other.

They went to war with each other as directly as they could, in fact closer than us and China. Ronald Reagan basically admitted that they are funding the Mujahideen to fight the USSR.

Secondly, comparing the Soviet leadership to the CCP is also wrong. The CCP is suicidal to the extent that they are willing to fight wars with everyone. They are also facing a crisis from multiple fronts which is why they are hellbent on war.

You may want wars to be the last resort, the CCP couldn't care less. A war with them is only a matter of time.

So instead of making war seem to be a worse prospect than it already is, people should be made ready to face it.

 

[Op Kahuta]

A war is definitely inevitable. And we can never really be sure of what the Chinese leadership is actually doing. I do hope we see messages for the public from the PM in the future.

That's where I am doubtful. Pooh knows he can't defeat us in conventional warfare and maybe he is smart enough to acknowledge the fact that a war b/w 2 nuclear armed countries will most certainly escalate into a nuclear war with him standing to lose a lot. Henceforth the IW launched by his kids on SM. And the fact that AD in his speech talked about IW and not a little bit about the possibility of war happening kind of makes me believe that I think he knows this won't escalate. But yea I am ready already if it means war.

 

[Optimistic Nihilist]

could have would have are irrelevant, dice has already been rolled. you can play with what you have on the day.

Doval has given an opportunity to talk about IW, it’s upto people to take the message forward without diluting it.

I don't know if irrelevant is the word I would use. Considering the behavior of the internal enemies, the future implications could be quite relevant and serious.

But yes, what's done is done. So perhaps we should simply see what happens next.

 

[Love Charger]

Tab hum kiya karengey when waar will be forced on us , like right now .

 

[Optimistic Nihilist]

That's where I am doubtful. Pooh knows he can't defeat us in conventional warfare and maybe he is smart enough to acknowledge the fact that a war b/w 2 nuclear armed countries will most certainly escalate into a nuclear war with him standing to lose a lot. Henceforth the IW launched by his kids on SM. And the fact that AD in his speech talked about IW and not a little bit about the possibility of war happening kind of makes me believe that I think he knows this won't escalate.

From what I have seen from the CCP, I am not sure how capable of reason or sense they are. Plus, it's not as if they have kind of a meaningful choice. Their position is desperate and drastic. I had made a post about this in another thread, I'll post it here again for you:

"I think why China is doing this is fairly simple.

The median age of China has just recently surpassed the US and it's rising fast. While their economy continues to grow, the CCP knows that their growth will slow down eventually - especially considering that salaries are rising fast and China is losing its status as workbench of the world.

Meanwhile growth in many Asian countries, but most importantly India, is accelerating at an incredible pace.The median age in India is 10 years below that of China. We are just cashing in on our youth dividend.

It's not wholly accurate but put these factors together and you get a situation eerily similar to the Concert of Europe just before WW1. China (the then Germany) is well on its way to eclipse the current hegemon USA (the then Great Britain), but at the same time fears to be overtaken by India (the then Russia), another rising power with much potential.

This instills a fear of urgency in the CCP to act when their relative power peaks. This window of opportunity will be around 2030 to 2040, possibly even before then, and it's going to be extremely dangerous. No doubt their thinking is to occupy certain Indian territories that are rich in much-needed resources and more importantly will provide manpower and human labor in the form of civilians that they capture.

This, they believe, will reinject energy into China and prevent them from collapsing. Like I said, alarming and will result in a bloodbath. Because it's not a question of "winning" in their minds, they believe it's a question of their survival."

 

[Optimistic Nihilist]

From what I have seen from the CCP, I am not sure how capable of reason or sense they are. Plus, it's not as if they have kind of a meaningful choice. Their position is desperate and drastic. I had made a post about this in another thread, I'll post it here again for you:

"I think why China is doing this is fairly simple.

View attachment 119151

The median age of China has just recently surpassed the US and it's rising fast. While their economy continues to grow, the CCP knows that their growth will slow down eventually - especially considering that salaries are rising fast and China is losing its status as workbench of the world.

Meanwhile growth in many Asian countries, but most importantly India, is accelerating at an incredible pace.The median age in India is 10 years below that of China. We are just cashing in on our youth dividend.

It's not wholly accurate but put these factors together and you get a situation eerily similar to the Concert of Europe just before WW1. China (the then Germany) is well on its way to eclipse the current hegemon USA (the then Great Britain), but at the same time fears to be overtaken by India (the then Russia), another rising power with much potential.

This instills a fear of urgency in the CCP to act when their relative power peaks. This window of opportunity will be around 2030 to 2040, possibly even before then, and it's going to be extremely dangerous. No doubt their thinking is to occupy certain Indian territories that are rich in much-needed resources and more importantly will provide manpower and human labor in the form of civilians that they capture.

This, they believe, will reinject energy into China and prevent them from collapsing. Like I said, alarming and will result in a bloodbath. Because it's not a question of "winning" in their minds, they believe it's a question of their survival."

I don't know if anyone here has ever read Tom Clancy, but if they have read "The Bear and the Dragon", they'll understand the situation.

In the books, China is in such a drastic position both socially, demographically and economically that it decides to launch a war on Russia to replenish their own depleted reserves of oil and gold.

Not exactly similar, but you can see the connection.

 

[ezsasa]

Subverting civil society is new frontier of war: NSA Ajit Doval

 

[The Shrike]

I think this line is very true. He could have highlighted the importance of internal warfare without discounting the possibility of external warfare, or trying to mitigate the seriousness of it.

It could also provoke fear in the general public if a war DOES break out, and they feel that it's going to be expensive and unaffordable.

And as you rightly said, it could give the traitorous Commies and the Opposition a mighty chance to force the government to stop posturing and reducing military clout, or trying to frighten the public into accepting peace agreements or diplomacy by quoting the NSA's ominous assertion that wars are expensive and unaffordable.

Of course, these are distortions, but it's not like anyone can stop them from making those, considering that this is a beautiful democracy.

This is not something that can happen in the future, but has already been happening for decades, Doval spewed out typical babu thinking on military - its risky expensive waste of money.
Added: He was giving a speech to IPS officers, should have just stuck to his lane and talked about internal security.

 

[Roshan]

I will say, this is not exactly inspiring stuff. The people at large, even if they get the message won't care about it that much.

Technical, strategic cold blooded language like this is best suited for people behind closed doors and given to select persons.

The public at large needs inspiration and morale boosts. They need to be told about how war is inevitable, WHAT WE STAND TO LOSE if we refuse to fight, and that this war will determine our future and our identity as a people.

People have to be told how IMPORTANT this war will be.

Rhetoric in short.

 

[ezsasa]

This is not something that can happen in the future, but has already been happening for decades, Doval spewed out typical babu thinking on military - its risky expensive waste of money.
Added: He was giving a speech to IPS officers, should have just stuck to his lane and talked about internal security.

Or is it the case that Doval is saying, the adversary instead of spending huge cash on military wars, they will focus on subverting our civil society, and prevention of that subversion also comes under IPS purview ?

 

[Optimistic Nihilist]

Or is it the case that Doval is saying, the adversary instead of spending huge cash on military wars, they will focus on subverting our civil society ?

View attachment 119154

Well, that's the thing, it's not exactly mutually exclusive. Talking about the dangers of internal subversion on its own is one thing. But the way he did it, by seemingly brushing away the possibility of a potential war is what's concerning.

 

[ezsasa]

Well, that's the thing, it's not exactly mutually exclusive. Talking about the dangers of internal subversion on its own is one thing. But the way he did it, by seemingly brushing away the possibility of a potential war is what's concerning.

be thankful that he not ending his sentences with "this thing" "that thing" these days.
check his old speeches, you will see.

 

[Love Charger]

Well, that's the thing, it's not exactly mutually exclusive. Talking about the dangers of internal subversion on its own is one thing. But the way he did it, by seemingly brushing away the possibility of a potential war is what's concerning.

What he said about war was true , wars are indeed unpredictable they are costly and with modern weapons very hard to replace the losses.
I wont think much about it , he never said we should not fight wars or defend ourselves

 

[avknight1408]

India strongly takes up 'Khalistan' referendum with UK

National Security Advisor Ajit Doval made it clear to his UK counterpart Stephen Lovegrove that the Modi government takes strong exception to the UK allowing a referendum on a third country by weaponising a minuscule section of the Indian diaspora.

Even though India and the UK share similar views on the Indo-Pacific as strategic partners, New Delhi has conveyed its serious concerns to London for allowing banned pro-Khalistan organisation Sikhs for Justice to hold a referendum on the secession of Punjab on October 31.

While the so-called referendum held in downtown London turned out to be a damp squib, National Security Advisor Ajit Doval made it clear to his UK counterpart Stephen Lovegrove that the Modi government takes strong exception to the UK allowing a referendum on affairs of a third country by weaponising a minuscule section of the Indian diaspora. The Indian position was conveyed during the bilateral strategic dialogue on November 3 in London.

It is understood that India made it clear that there was total peace in Punjab with radical Sikh elements failing to get even one per cent of the vote during assembly or Lok Sabha polls held every five years. The Modi government conveyed its serious concern that the UK government is turning a blind eye to the open radicalisation of the Indian diaspora by Sikh banned groups to promote their secessionist agenda. Under the influence and support of the Pakistani deep state, the Sikh radicals have been holding protests on the three farm laws and punitively participating in anti-India activities in the UK. Despite the SFJ being a banned organization in India since 2019 and its leader Gurpatwant Singh Pannu being declared a terrorist, the UK allowed the US-based extremist organisation to conduct an illegal referendum on the Indian Punjab.

Unlike European Union countries like France, Spain and Netherlands with whom India has very close ties, the bilateral ties with the UK have been derailed by London playing an adversarial role against India when it comes to Afghanistan, Pakistan, Kashmir, and the so-called Khalistan issue. In this context, the role played by UK Chief of Defence Staff Nick Carter, who called Taliban terrorist country boys with code of honour, in the now failed Doha peace process stands out singularly.

Although India and the United Kingdom have been strategic partners since 2004, the UK role in tacitly supporting Pakistan in the multi-lateral fora on abrogation of Articles 370 and 35 A in Jammu and Kashmir on August 5, 2019, has been noted with concern by the Modi government.

It is understood that while UK NSA Lovegrove assured NSA Doval that no anti-India sentiment will be promoted, India is watching London carefully to see whether the promise gets translated on the ground as adversarial actions will directly impact bilateral ties.

 

[Optimistic Nihilist]

What he said about war was true , wars are indeed unpredictable they are costly and with modern weapons very hard to replace the losses.
I wont think much about it , he never said we should not fight wars or defend ourselves

Perception is the key word here. Expensive and unaffordable are very strong words. Which is why I said he should have framed himself better.

 

[Love Charger]

Countries like pakistan are an eternal threat though , in this case the country must be prepared for external war as these pakis are our permanent enemies .
Their destruction is our guarantee to safety .
This doesn't mean attacking pok , it will draw us into an two front war , a scenerio for which we are not prepared.
Rather destruction of pakistani state is our goal.
Jihaids can't do subversion here , they will come and our army will hoorify them, to kill an anpadh tango is always easier than killing an state apparatus .
Their government hatches designes against us .
Like recently , ttp had a ceasefire where pakistan removed it's army from occupied kpk for one month but still .
The state must weakned , the mass of people don't have any capability unless marshalled by a powerful government , ideologically driven to achieve objectives pertaining to its ideology and those which are determential to the survival and growth of the nation and subsequently the civilization.

 

[Love Charger]

Perception is the key word here. Expensive and unaffordable are very strong words. Which is why I said he should have framed himself better.

How else he was supposed to say this , he said what wars are actually , although one must not be truth full like this everytime.

 

[Optimistic Nihilist]

How else he was supposed to say this , he said what wars are actually , although one must not be truth full like this everytime.

Ask yourself who needs that. Do you think there is anyone who thinks war is a good thing and that we should have a war every 5 years or so?

People are already afraid and wary of a war and its costs. In such a situation, instead of repeating the obvious and strengthening misgivings, people must be inspired to fight and prepare for a war.