Aircraft Crash Notification

skunk works

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 25, 2022
Messages
1,918
Likes
9,026
Country flag
Ahh are u ignoring iaf incompetence which is damn larger than mod and pmo
My views about IAFs competence are well known. I have alway hated how Indian armed forces always try to cover paucity of basic equipment and lack of knowledge of modern tactics with "hamaare jaanbaaz jawan chadh Gaye tiger hill par"
Notice how this fiction is always parroted by the middle and senior officer class. It's not their own kids dying. Their own kids are safe with green cards.

Mudiji is the PM and the buck stops with him. He has immense power to deal with chandigarh lobby/ import lobby. If he isn't, it's obvious he is either afraid of them or agrees with them.
 

Nazaria e Bakistan

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 20, 2023
Messages
288
Likes
1,489
Country flag
My views about IAFs competence are well known. I have alway hated how Indian armed forces always try to cover paucity of basic equipment and lack of knowledge of modern tactics with "hamaare jaanbaaz jawan chadh Gaye tiger hill par"
Notice how this fiction is always parroted by the middle and senior officer class. It's not their own kids dying. Their own kids are safe with green cards.

Mudiji is the PM and the buck stops with him. He has immense power to deal with chandigarh lobby/ import lobby. If he isn't, it's obvious he is either afraid of them or agrees with them.
This is very true, even very simple piece of spares are sold for massive mark-up by certain chandigarh business men. Have a friend whose family deals in it. A simple fuse to ignite propellant in a howitzer carries a massive markup. We are talking about few 100 bucks to 10s of thousands and even lakhs.
 

skunk works

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 25, 2022
Messages
1,918
Likes
9,026
Country flag
This is very true, even very simple piece of spares are sold for massive mark-up by certain chandigarh business men. Have a friend whose family deals in it. A simple fuse to ignite propellant in a howitzer carries a massive markup. We are talking about few 100 bucks to 10s of thousands and even lakhs.
That's how you get a third world military with a first world budget.
 

Nazaria e Bakistan

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 20, 2023
Messages
288
Likes
1,489
Country flag
Remember, these same samosa PSUs are claiming they will build a stealth platform (which have very, very tight tolerances)
Oh well, I can cover me Shlong in a condom and call it stealthy. These guys are making no planes before 2050.

Did I mention that they could not make the DARNED Intermediate Trainer Jet in 25 years? Yes, its 2023 and HAL Sitara is not yet in production. Stuck in some shitty loop of certification or something. Did I mention that project started in 1999 or something?
 
Last edited:

jai jaganath

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 3, 2022
Messages
5,244
Likes
9,005
Country flag
My views about IAFs competence are well known. I have alway hated how Indian armed forces always try to cover paucity of basic equipment and lack of knowledge of modern tactics with "hamaare jaanbaaz jawan chadh Gaye tiger hill par"
Notice how this fiction is always parroted by the middle and senior officer class. It's not their own kids dying. Their own kids are safe with green cards.

Mudiji is the PM and the buck stops with him. He has immense power to deal with chandigarh lobby/ import lobby. If he isn't, it's obvious he is either afraid of them or agrees with them.
It's obvious state of armed forces and especially air force
But u have to understand govt especially ours can't go like bull in defence procurement they need collaboration of armed forces and mod
Basically it's mod who is pushing for indigenization whereas armed forces playing their usual antics
The reason mmrca not being concluded was iaf yes and u know why bcoz of kickbacks
It's like until competition is love they lobbies will pump money in order to get the deal so the defence officials very well know the moment deal completes then their money and benefits will stop so better the competition go for decades
Similar things are being done in mrfa 2.0
It's mod and pmo pushing indigenous equipments through iaf throat after approval it took 2 years for iaf for price negotiation isn't it wonderful
When iaf who is not ready for indigenization not ready for induction not ready for increasing competency then what can GoI do even it has some restrictions
It's iaf which has to fight if they aren't serious u can't expect anyone to be serious for them
Let them behave like child in toy showroom they will feel the consequences during war
 

FactsPlease

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 12, 2016
Messages
194
Likes
382
Country flag
Mudiji is the PM and the buck stops with him. He has immense power to deal with chandigarh lobby/ import lobby. If he isn't, it's obvious he is either afraid of them or agrees with them.
"Buck has to stop somewhere."

The only where that phrase does not work is autocracy like N Korea.
India is not N Korea.
Modi has been the PM (for 10 years). If even him can not change it, who else? God?

Raise a meeting, sitting down with top generals & MoD: "Tell me, in how many years you think you can achieve both crash rate down (to certain level) and indigenous rate up (to certain level). To get there, what toll gates you will deliver next year? And the next? And in three years? (I do give you that much time!)." Next year 1, 2, and 3, all those missed targets are fired. Those who promised & delivered get every award & promotion deserved. Those who not, got as* kicked.
Who else in GoI is more entitled to do that?
Isn't that the same thing we working for private corporations has to face? So-called ACCOUNTABILITY...
 

Blademaster

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 19, 2009
Messages
9,215
Likes
26,959
"Buck has to stop somewhere."

The only where that phrase does not work is autocracy like N Korea.
India is not N Korea.
Modi has been the PM (for 10 years). If even him can not change it, who else? God?

Raise a meeting, sitting down with top generals & MoD: "Tell me, in how many years you think you can achieve both crash rate down (to certain level) and indigenous rate up (to certain level). To get there, what toll gates you will deliver next year? And the next? And in three years? (I do give you that much time!)." Next year 1, 2, and 3, all those missed targets are fired. Those who promised & delivered get every award & promotion deserved. Those who not, got as* kicked.
Who else in GoI is more entitled to do that?
Isn't that the same thing we working for private corporations has to face? So-called ACCOUNTABILITY...
Problem is that when GoI tries to exercises accountability, these generals run to the nearest Congress MP or High Court and they look for any reason to start intefering with GoI's exercises of accountability.
 

vishnugupt

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 3, 2013
Messages
2,583
Likes
11,048
Country flag
Everytime aircraft crashes everybody like "Guys don't comment until official report come"

Now where are these official reports?? All In dustbin. What changes implemented?? None. Who punished? Nobody.

Why ?? Because fault lies 100% on carrom board warriors that's why they are mum otherwise they would have alleged design flaws in Su-30mki and Mirage 2000 when two carrom board warriors bailed out a intact Su-30MKI last time.

UN armed forces has history of not punishing their staff for ordinary man/machine loss. They do khanapoorti only after disasters
 

FactsPlease

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 12, 2016
Messages
194
Likes
382
Country flag
Problem is that when GoI tries to exercises accountability, these generals run to the nearest Congress MP or High Court and they look for any reason to start intefering with GoI's exercises of accountability.
With all due respect, my response will be: then why you pick these top generals (or didn't replace them in time) who may run to CMP & HC once they need to turn in result? Put the other way, if team members are not held responsible, then the team lead is.

-- Some may say: well, most top generals are just like that. What can we do? I will say: India is not an anarchy. We do have education and personnel systems. The best way to avoid rotten apple is not to rummage thru barrels, but go to the apple tree instead. Ten years is enough to harvest new generation generals.

Buck has to stop somewhere. And it's all about commitment - to change, to move things on, to face and embrace future, instead stopping where we are. Isn't that we have been yearning for, so desperately, a determined leader?

-- below is a little too risky for me to say, as I'm not in other people's shoes: when you look around in the world, even in democracies, a PM for ten years should already hold much leverage, even in judiciary branch and legislature branch. If that's true (and I hope it is), then this "generals run to opposition party and court when held accountable" won't stop a determined leader. Again, my wish...
 

skunk works

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 25, 2022
Messages
1,918
Likes
9,026
Country flag
Everytime aircraft crashes everybody like "Guys don't comment until official report come"

Now where are these official reports?? All In dustbin. What changes implemented?? None. Who punished? Nobody.

Why ?? Because fault lies 100% on carrom board warriors that's why they are mum otherwise they would have alleged design flaws in Su-30mki and Mirage 2000 when two carrom board warriors bailed out a intact Su-30MKI last time.

UN armed forces has history of not punishing their staff for ordinary man/machine loss. They do khanapoorti only after disasters
Safety is a meme because lives are cheap.
 

Eagle Eye

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 1, 2022
Messages
2,249
Likes
5,057
Country flag
Defence will get all the resources it needs PM Modi said on Commanders conference,earlier. Hence IAF looking up MRFA import.
In 2013,mrca report says it will cost more than 20B$. Now in 2023 the cost?? What is diff betw congrass & modi Govt in this saga?
 

Latest Replies

Global Defence

New threads

Articles

Top