AH-64E Apache attack helicopter

[Atcjurvin]

................................

 

[Suryavanshi]

This is no better than Augusta westlands deal.
Lode ki sarkar he ye

 

[abhay rajput]

This is basically a bribe. US is one of the few countries with which India has a trade surplus. To keep trump happy, they are buying overpriced defence equipment.

Okay then why don't other countries with which we don't have trade surplus do things to make us happy.. ?
Call it what it is - BLACKMAIL

 

[south block]

This is no better than Augusta westlands deal.
Lode ki sarkar he ye

Probably another Abhishek Verma working in dark this time for BJP --- previous one used to provide foreign pussy to old farts of Congress ---- this one provide to old farts of BJP --- both Congi & BJP are same ---- both fool gullible Indians --- sala ek side say ek chutiya banata hai --- dusri side say dusra.

 

[aditya10r]

Lode ki sarkar he ye

Anant singh:Ah,i see you are a man of culture.

__________________________________________

 

[Gessler]

There's something I hope the CDS and DMA, MoD & Forces can do in coming decade. That something is transferring all attack & transport helicopters, their support personnel & infrastructure from the IAF to Army Aviation Corps.

Air Force shouldn't be in the business of operating all CAS & Vertical Airlift capability. They should retain a maximum of 50 or so helos for specialized purposes like CSAR, Recon, few Utility etc.

The job of attack helicopters is intrinsically tied to the troops/mechanized forces on the ground. And the primary job of transport helos like Mi-17 or IMRH in future will be to ferry Army personnel from here to there. There's no sound reason why either of these types of helos should be operated by a different service. The entirety of American attack & transport helo fleet is controlled by US Army, not USAF.

IAF needs to come out of the old "anything that flies belongs to air force" mentality. World has moved past that in the interest of greater operational efficiency.

+++

Additionally, I have some serious concerns with regard to the communication systems and the problems that could potentially arise. Other defence analysts have pointed out that the services are procuring Software Defined Radios (SDRs) from different vendors (Army & Navy from BEL, IAF from Rafael, Israel). Now the BEL SDR has an entirely different encryption algorithm compared to the Israeli one.

One IAF asset carrying a Rafael SDR would communicate via secure, encrypted channel to other IAF assets just fine. But what about inter-service communication? How are IA troops on ground using their BEL SDR supposed to call strikes from Apache at their targets? Sure they can communicate using non-encrypted channel but that is not secure, any enemy Signals unit can listen in....you'll never see NATO militaries using unsecured comms in a battlespace.

The problems arising out of a fragmented, unilateral approach to modernization (where each Service is fighting its own war) with no concept of jointmanship or even being aware at an operational level regarding the warfighting environment as imagined by your sister service, is a sh!tshow in the tamest of descriptions.

The deeper you get into this, the more you realize how the creation of a CDS with a clear mandate to push for jointmanship is perhaps the single most important defence & strategic reform enacted in the country since turn of the century.

 

[Akula]

India Rising given replied to South block on the question of 6 Apache

 

[asianobserve]

could there be under dealing going on ? ---- I smell pure corruption here.

There is no corruption in US foreign military sales. The US Foreign Corrupt Practices Act is much feared among US businessmen. A deal of this magnitude and sensitivity will not escape US government watchdogs.

Bribing is for European and Russian defense deals.

 

[delbruky]

Looks like Rone and South Block are the same guy. Why would one call themselves south block....may be a congress pappu planted in DFI

Brand new Apache 64e apache (just shell cost 35 million)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_AH-64_Apache
Combine with that 10 to 20 years of support spares training and consumables another 35 million
Simulator and simulator software
Now the weapons systems
Weapons system spares
weapon system training
ammo supply contract
Now lets talk about communication and radar
communication and radar training. for 15-20 years (remember india us signed BECA. logisitics support agreements, and joint training agreements)
Training for repair staff.
Tools for repair and overhaul


looks like these two fuck heads Rone and south block want this ambassador painted in apache colors.

 

[asianobserve]

so what ---- still 155 million $ for 6 Apache? --- I see Chinook flying here in HP every other week --- you won't even here it until it's few Kms away ---- same is not the case with MI -17 ---- lets give it to Americans though ---- their build quality is on another level :biggrin2:

Look at the details. I'm site it's not only for an airframe. The US normally does not sell complex weapons systems as stand-alone ttansactions. This kind of sale would normally include weapons, spares, training ammos, training, simulators, access to satellite comms, software updates, infra for safe storage, etc.

 

[IndiaRising]

Okay then why don't other countries with which we don't have trade surplus do things to make us happy.. ?
Call it what it is - BLACKMAIL

How many major countries does India have trade surplus with? Also here trade surplus is roughly 20 billion dollars

 

[IndiaRising]

India Rising given replied to South block on the question of 6 Apache
View attachment 43405

Yes but I didnt know at that time that US army was buying far more number of Apaches at a lower per unit cost than India.

 

[rone]

Looks like Rone and South Block are the same guy. Why would one call themselves south block....may be a congress pappu planted in DFI

Brand new Apache 64e apache (just shell cost 35 million)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_AH-64_Apache
Combine with that 10 to 20 years of support spares training and consumables another 35 million
Simulator and simulator software
Now the weapons systems
Weapons system spares
weapon system training
ammo supply contract
Now lets talk about communication and radar
communication and radar training. for 15-20 years (remember india us signed BECA. logisitics support agreements, and joint training agreements)
Training for repair staff.
Tools for repair and overhaul


looks like these two fuck heads Rone and south block want this ambassador painted in apache colors.

Idiot have new name any way I am not going to personal rant like u , first any mods can check my IP and account creation date and moron look at before posts I never slut shame any bjp leaders, and check also my old post until u have valid proofs, I just have to say FCK off,dick head

 

[rone]

Looks like Rone and South Block are the same guy. Why would one call themselves south block....may be a congress pappu planted in DFI

Brand new Apache 64e apache (just shell cost 35 million)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_AH-64_Apache
Combine with that 10 to 20 years of support spares training and consumables another 35 million
Simulator and simulator software
Now the weapons systems
Weapons system spares
weapon system training
ammo supply contract
Now lets talk about communication and radar
communication and radar training. for 15-20 years (remember india us signed BECA. logisitics support agreements, and joint training agreements)
Training for repair staff.
Tools for repair and overhaul


looks like these two fuck heads Rone and south block want this ambassador painted in apache colors.

Anyway u started it so here the purchase data for u

Which roughly None of that wants 150 million price tag , also all the training and support infra will be much much lower given that we have already inducted a squadron. Also the rafale with all things included was 200 million per Airframe I think and this deal had offsets as well.
Why 22 earlier for $1.4B & now 6 cost upwords of $900M ? Cant b Inflation??

I only criticized unassertive deals, if you have any issue's with other guy don't FCK with me just go and talk it out with him in dm, learn to analyze and decide facts based on truths not on ur Brain farts ,now get lost and never ever tag me in unnecessary posts

 

[JBH22]

The last two deals with Uncle Sam makes no sense especially when we are supposedly facing cash crunch for defence budget. Now for Apache deals it would have made better sense to acquire one or two squadrons of SU 25 to give IBG the KO punch.

 

[Wisemarko]

Need to understand how the language of DSCA works before getting all too worked up. These 6 Apaches are not over or underpriced. They are sold at the same price to all customers and US government ensures that.

Some history:
In 2010, the DSCA notified US Congress about the sale to India of 22 AH-64D Apache helicopters (only the FMS portion) for $1.4 billion. In 2015, when the contract was finally signed, India paid only $900 million for the FMS portion of the contract.

With the DCS portion contracted for an additional $900 million, the entire sale cost India $1.8 billion — or $80 million per Apache, inclusive of large stocks of weapons and missiles.

Per unit cost of Apache without support items and weapons would not increase $80 million even today. (More like $50 million). Rest of the cost is only an estimation of not to exceed cost. The US government will make sure that India does not pay a penny more than what US paid in its last tranche of purchase.

Also, these costs include substantial amount of weapons, training, simulators (that cost millions) and after sales support for entire Apache fleet.

Again, no country can beat US in providing quality products on time and at the best rates.

 

[rone]

Need to understand how the language of DSCA works before getting all too worked up. These 6 Apaches are not over or underpriced. They are sold at the same price to all customers and US government ensures that.

Some history:
In 2010, the DSCA notified US Congress about the sale to India of 22 AH-64D Apache helicopters (only the FMS portion) for $1.4 billion. In 2015, when the contract was finally signed, India paid only $900 million for the FMS portion of the contract.

With the DCS portion contracted for an additional $900 million, the entire sale cost India $1.8 billion — or $80 million per Apache, inclusive of large stocks of weapons and missiles.

Per unit cost of Apache would not increase $80 million even today. Rest of the cost is only an estimation of not to exceed cost. The US government will make sure that India does not pay a penny more than what US paid in its last tranche of purchase.

Also, these costs include substantial amount of weapons, training, simulators (that cost millions) and after sales support for entire Apache fleet.

Again, no country can beat US in providing quality products on time and at the best rates.

As u said even 80 mil per bird with out weapons i agree with you but look at weapons coming only 270 odd hell fire and 200 stinger the cost per hellfire and stinger are cost of 1 hellfire missile: $ 1,15,000 cost of 1 stinger missile: $ 40,000, now calculate the rest of price its over priced and mostly insane to have weapons and logistics package more costly than actual weapon platform,

 

[Wisemarko]

now calculate the rest of price its over priced

Why should one calculate the price when that price is not the one to be paid? Again, with FMS it’s never overpriced.

I recommend you do more research on US FMS before jumping to conclusions.

 

[Aniruddha Mulay]

After these 6 helicopters are acquired, are there going to be any more orders placed for additional Apaches for the IA?

 

[abhay rajput]

After these 6 helicopters are acquired, are there going to be any more orders placed for additional Apaches for the IA?

I don't think soo because we don't have any money left