After M777 all eyes on Kalyani group ultra-light howitzers

[JBH22]

last prophet pls do not use mobile language!!!!

I second it. Kinda of painful and horrific to read his post.

 

[LastProphet]

Go bck to som skool jbh....😝😝😝

 

[laughingbuddha]

If the M777 deal is off it is a good time for bharat forge to get down to the serious business of developing a ULH which will satisfy the mountain corps.

MOD should show they mean business by purchasing some of the bharat 52 guns. gives an incentive for further R&D.

 

[LastProphet]

Bharat forge /kalyani /tata whoever can fulfill d req or is closest to it...enough of buying videshi maal...!!!

 

[arnabmit]

I hope you have read forum rules? SMS lingo is not allowed on this forum. Please type in full, else you might attract a ban/infraction.

M trying venkat but punchng complete mssg on ma handy is painful

 

[abingdonboy]

M777 was a proven platform if bought it would have made fast deployment but kalyani-group-ultra-light-howitzers design is still on papers it will take much time to even bring the platform for field testing & we all knows how much time it takes to conduct a trial ,we still don't know what if that gun would be actually a re-branding case or the Indian company actually have its stakes in it .

You are right, this cancellation is pure BS by the GoI. The Kalyani Group has how many guns in service to date? Precisely ZERO. The Kalyani Group has how much experience in producing these kind of weapons? Precisely ZERO.How many arty pieces has the IA inducted in the past 2 decades? Precisely ZERO. The IA's wait for new guns just got a LOT longer.....

This product from the Klayani group is purely a paper product with paper specs, who knows how the trails will go? What if the design is unviable? What if another 3 years of trails and redesigns are needed? The IA could be facing another 5-6 year delay for a ULH whilst with the M777 it could have got ULHs within 24 months if the deal was signed this year and with that they would have got a proven and advanced product, with this offer the Kalyani product is nothing but empty promises.


Truly disappointed by this news. The Modi govt used their big mouths talking about their promise to modernise the Indian military, they were briefed by the 3 service chiefs and no doubt the COAS pressed the need for the M777 and the GoI goes around and slaps the Mil in the face like this because of what exactly? The GoI needs to put their money where their mouths are, they talk the talk- time to walk the walk.

 

[LastProphet]

Well didnot read the rules...kindof strange but makes sense looking at the point that lot of people here may be too old to learn the chat lingo...may be i should post it in the thread " problems with DFI".

Well coming to the topic of the thread...the insanely high price of M777 cant be justified by any means...better wait for some more time...if the issue of new guns is so alarming, which it is, why cant all stakeholders sit together with a strict time frame & finish it...a country which is going for a manned MARS mission it isnt a too difficult task...i repeat problem is lack of will nothing else...

 

[pratul_09]

I second it too Modi government has to provide incentives to Indian private defense manufactures to start their R & D going in full steam. We are still a heavy defense buyer. Time has come for to start exporting defense equipments, but this cannot start until we start manufacturing them.

US too needs to decide if it needs to have India by its side by quoting the right price and technology transfers when it can provide our neighbors equipments for free.

 

[Pulkit]

I hope you are not from anti Modi camp as it appears here.....
Modernisation cannot be done in a day....
the decision of scrapping M777 can be justified simply by saying that the funds were not sufficient.... (Hoping Rafale has the same fate)...

the cost of Gun only was close to 30crores and would hav exceeded that too with all the attachments and add ons....
It is the lightest of all but the cost is sky rocketing.....
IA has brought this trouble on them on there own with the full support of UPA govt....

All there plans to acquire products got delayed and cost got doubled or tripled...

Being a foreign product its maintenance and repair will also be damm costly.....

Kayani product is ready to be tested and if the test fails then we can go for other options cheaper than M777 not as good as it but you can say second best...

You are right, this cancellation is pure BS by the GoI. The Kalyani Group has how many guns in service to date? Precisely ZERO. The Kalyani Group has how much experience in producing these kind of weapons? Precisely ZERO.How many arty pieces has the IA inducted in the past 2 decades? Precisely ZERO. The IA's wait for new guns just got a LOT longer.....

This product from the Klayani group is purely a paper product with paper specs, who knows how the trails will go? What if the design is unviable? What if another 3 years of trails and redesigns are needed? The IA could be facing another 5-6 year delay for a ULH whilst with the M777 it could have got ULHs within 24 months if the deal was signed this year and with that they would have got a proven and advanced product, with this offer the Kalyani product is nothing but empty promises.


Truly disappointed by this news. The Modi govt used their big mouths talking about their promise to modernise the Indian military, they were briefed by the 3 service chiefs and no doubt the COAS pressed the need for the M777 and the GoI goes around and slaps the Mil in the face like this because of what exactly? The GoI needs to put their money where their mouths are, they talk the talk- time to walk the walk.

 

[shankyz]

Titanium components in M777 is one of the reasons for its high cost ....

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

 

[JBH22]

Well didnot read the rules...kindof strange but makes sense looking at the point that lot of people here may be too old to learn the chat lingo...may be i should post it in the thread " problems with DFI".

Well coming to the topic of the thread...the insanely high price of M777 cant be justified by any means...better wait for some more time...if the issue of new guns is so alarming, which it is, why cant all stakeholders sit together with a strict time frame & finish it...a country which is going for a manned MARS mission it isnt a too difficult task...i repeat problem is lack of will nothing else...

-------------------------

 

[Pulkit]

Titanium is expensive but we usually use Ti Al Alloys only with AMS .
They are expensive but even that doesnot justify high cost...
Actually its the treatment Heat treatment on the raw material which is tricky to obtain desired properties as per AMS....
The treatment process and the set up cost is expensive in US .... For aircrafts the outsource it but have not come across anytime they have outsourced this work for a gun.....

Titanium components in M777 is one of the reasons for its high cost ....

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

 

[LastProphet]

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[jackprince]

Now we have to learn chat lingo too.

I am feeling so OLD this days.

 

[JBH22]

Now we have to learn chat lingo too.

I am feeling so OLD this days.

Best part was that too many old people on DFI to understand chat lingo. Now these days even to request someone to write correctly is a luxury.

PS: I believe he should go through forum rules

 

[abingdonboy]

I hope you are not from anti Modi camp as it appears here.....
Modernisation cannot be done in a day....
the decision of scrapping M777 can be justified simply by saying that the funds were not sufficient.... (Hoping Rafale has the same fate)...

the cost of Gun only was close to 30crores and would hav exceeded that too with all the attachments and add ons....
It is the lightest of all but the cost is sky rocketing.....
IA has brought this trouble on them on there own with the full support of UPA govt....

All there plans to acquire products got delayed and cost got doubled or tripled...

Being a foreign product its maintenance and repair will also be damm costly.....

Kayani product is ready to be tested and if the test fails then we can go for other options cheaper than M777 not as good as it but you can say second best...

I question a poor decision and suddenly I am "anti-Modi"? I'm PRO-INDIA, and in my opinion this is a TERRIBLE call by the man/govt who claimed to put defence modernisation back on track. I know defence modernisation isn't an overnight process but one of the few decisions the NDA has made on the defence front since entering office is this- scrapping an arty deal the IA very much needs.


How has the IA put itself in this position? The fault lays with BAE (unable to meet certain offset requirements) and the UPA/Antony who refused to make a decision earlier meaning the procurement got delayed and delayed and costs sky-rocketed- to blame the IA is PATHETIC, what did they do wrong?


I'll repeat- the offer from the Kalyani group is ON PAPER, they have ZERO freaking experience in making 9mm bullets let alone Ultra Lightweight Howitzers! It's very easy for you to say if this weapon fails cheaper options will be sought- yet another delay, do you not understand that arty procurements are time critical- the IA doesn't have decades to wait as you and the NDA seem to think.


In some cases the cost is justified and in the M777's case that was true....

 

[laughingbuddha]

Self delete

 

[Hari Sud]

M777 deal has gone on self destruct mode. It is partly India's procurement agencies fault that they took so long. Army has to shoulder a bigger portion of the blame as they took longer than two years to test and learn nothing better other than what they already knew about M777 from its action in Afghanistan or frequent training firing by the US army at its home location.

The original price offer was good for some time. The BAE gave a year's notice that they are about to close the assembly line, if Indian does not come soon. India never came and BAE closed the assembly line. Hence part of the escalation is cost of restarting this line, part is year to year inflation.

Now we can blame Anthony for this inordinate delay. Who knows he deliberately delayed it as it was not on the highest priority. The Indian Airforce was pressing the Defence Minister for Rafale deal. There was no money for either or many other deals. It is easier said than done, knowing the finances.

The M777 is not end of the world. Army has 105 mm artillery and 130 mm artillery is sufficient numbers to be placed in mountain warfare conditions. M777 is preferred together with heavy lift helicopters to transport it. If the enemy knows that part of the strategy then they would position sufficient number of missiles to shoot the helicopters, hence denying the Army its high mobility.

On the other hand modified Bofor - Dhanush is quite capable to reach the border areas if sufficient road transport arrangements i.e road network exists (M777 was bypassing that limitation).

Let us graduate from M777 discussion and foul mouthing our government like opposition politicians. Government today has big limitation i.e. possibility of drought. Buying guns is least of their worry. The current government is already signing orders on items which were stuck in the pipeline for years. Give them some more time, they would straighten up some of the kinks in our procurement processes and our army needs straightening up which follows age old GQSR rules and introduces delays. It also gives the corrupt to pocket some money by one or the other kind of delays.

 

[Pulkit]

I question a poor decision and suddenly I am "anti-Modi"? I'm PRO-INDIA, and in my opinion this is a TERRIBLE call by the man/govt who claimed to put defence modernisation back on track. I know defence modernisation isn't an overnight process but one of the few decisions the NDA has made on the defence front since entering office is this- scrapping an arty deal the IA very much needs.


How has the IA put itself in this position? The fault lays with BAE (unable to meet certain offset requirements) and the UPA/Antony who refused to make a decision earlier meaning the procurement got delayed and delayed and costs sky-rocketed- to blame the IA is PATHETIC, what did they do wrong?


I'll repeat- the offer from the Kalyani group is ON PAPER, they have ZERO freaking experience in making 9mm bullets let alone Ultra Lightweight Howitzers! It's very easy for you to say if this weapon fails cheaper options will be sought- yet another delay, do you not understand that arty procurements are time critical- the IA doesn't have decades to wait as you and the NDA seem to think.


In some cases the cost is justified and in the M777's case that was true....

I said u appear to be anti Modi and the decision to scrap a deal must have been taken keepin into account all the factors.
The import of arms has to be controlled. If you dont do that you cannot develope self sufficiency.

Everything when initiated is Zero is grows with time and support here both are missing..
IA is also to be blamed as they had to take measures upfront not at the last moment.
IA has a role to provide there req to DRDO and other organisations(Defense) here they also failed ...
DRDO complained they neevr had enough budget and army also complained the same ... Which is partially true and the budget was never great but even the utilisation was not optimal...

Now what can I say about UPA/Antony "No Deal No Scam" Baba....
IA here is not victim its part of a whole team whose responsible to this mess in Defense....

 

[Kunal Biswas]

If this true, First thing is to upgrade 105mm for longer ranges ..

And it would be nice if OFB can make a 39cal 155mm gun with no APU and lighter chassis for immediate use ..

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Kalyani.co will be presenting their gun by 2015 only ..