Af troops vs Pak Troops Border Clash!

[pmaitra]

Handful of tanks and howitzers are not that big of a deal. By that I mean these armaments though powerful are in no way capable of hurting Indian interests through military means. Political means are a different thing.

India should hedge its bet. Amrullah Saleh has reestablished National Front of Afghanistan which is essentially the diet version of Northern Alliance. Ahmed Shah Massoud's nephew is also actively taking part in politics (trained in India).

India should provide arms if requested by Afghan govt but at the same time invest in the political and military capabilities of ANF.

I am of the opinion that we should provide small to medium weapons to Afghanistan.

We can also replace our T-72s with Arjuns, and transfer those T-72s to Afghanistan. However, I think it is better to give them in installments. If you recall, when the Taliban took over much of Afghanistan, they also took over a lot of military hardware of the previous regime. Our arms transfer to Afghanistan should be conditional to the ANA demonstrating their capability to enforce the authority of the elected government in Kabul.

The recent reports of purchase of T-55 by Pakistan from Serbia is of concern to me, and I wonder where these are destined for.

 

[blueblood]

I am of the opinion that we should provide small to medium weapons to Afghanistan.

I agree but it depends on definition of "small to medium". Upgraded T-72s should prove to be an excellent asset i.e. the kind offered by KMDB at defexpo with special emphasis on close combat instead of hunter killer operations. These along with few batteries of 105mm howitzers and Grad systems on tata trucks should be more enough. Generals in Pindi will be running in brown pants from that day onwards.

We can also replace our T-72s with Arjuns, and transfer those T-72s to Afghanistan.

Agreed.

However, I think it is better to give them in installments. If you recall, when the Taliban took over much of Afghanistan, they also took over a lot of military hardware of the previous regime.

I don't think that you will see that happening again. Different times then and now. India was timid & broke and US was not interested.

Our arms transfer to Afghanistan should be conditional to the ANA demonstrating their capability to enforce the authority of the elected government in Kabul.

This is where you and I part ways. From India's perspective, ANA should be treated as independent organization not as an extension of govt. in Kabul. A significant part of ANA officer corps is trained in India and therefore has some sort of intimate connection with India. Same cannot be said of most politicians and ANP.

If you don't want to see Afghanistan go to the wolves then it is essential that balance of power should be maintained. Case and point, Ghani's stupidity and the resultant shit storm.

The recent reports of purchase of T-55 by Pakistan from Serbia is of concern to me, and I wonder where these are destined for.

It is a very useless purchase as far as Afghanistan is concerned.

A Gorkha Rifles Colonel about the success of Indian army in Kashmir vs USSR's failure in Afghanistan.

Spoiler

A very, very important reason for our success is that we were just not road or track bound. The hardiness of the average Indian soldier & the immense strength of the regimental system were critical factors in achieving tactical success. Also all that we would carry would be ammunition, no bullet-proof jackets, no helmets, little food & water. It helped very much to move light. In those days we didnt even have NVDs. A comparison with road bound , conscript & primarily mechanised armies like the Russians in Afghanistan will always see light infantry do better. In this light, please read the Bear Went over the Mountain: Soviet Combat Tactics in Afghanistan. I was quite taken aback when I read it : road bound operations, basic drills flouted & huge unwieldy columns detected from miles away.

 

[pmaitra]

@blueblood, I agree. There is merit is both ways of thinking. It is difficult to predict whether providing heavy weapons to Afghanistan will succeed or fail. It could go either way. The only way to know is to actually help them.

It is true however, that we might want to trust ANA more. They seem to be holding up pretty well.

 

[blueblood]

@blueblood, I agree. There is merit is both ways of thinking. It is difficult to predict whether providing heavy weapons to Afghanistan will succeed or fail. It could go either way. The only way to know is to actually help them.

It is true however, that we might want to trust ANA more. They seem to be holding up pretty well.

True.

In conclusion.

1) Pakistan Army foraying militarily into Astan will be its Waterloo and I am being generous. PA is not that stupid. T-55 purchase is for TTP.

2) Weapon systems should be provided to ANA with ample supervision.

3) A squadron of armed drones should be stationed in Farkhor or Ayni air base in case things go wrong.

4) Saleh and Massoud family are the most anti-Taliban people you can find and they like India so whatever funding, equipment and training ANA is getting from India, a portion of it should be diverted to ANF if it hasn't happened already.

Only way Afghanistan can move forward is democracy and India should make sure it stays there. RAW's failure resulted in Ghani's and ISI victory, something Porkis were too smug about.

 

[Abhijeet Dey]

Hmm.......... So Pakistan will supply these T-55 tanks to TTP against Afghanistan.

 

[Screambowl]

I am of the opinion that we should provide small to medium weapons to Afghanistan.

We can also replace our T-72s with Arjuns, and transfer those T-72s to Afghanistan. However, I think it is better to give them in installments. If you recall, when the Taliban took over much of Afghanistan, they also took over a lot of military hardware of the previous regime. Our arms transfer to Afghanistan should be conditional to the ANA demonstrating their capability to enforce the authority of the elected government in Kabul.

The recent reports of purchase of T-55 by Pakistan from Serbia is of concern to me, and I wonder where these are destined for.

those T-55 is for Pak Afghanistan and Iran Pak border 'most probably'. They will upgrade it's firing control system.

This is the best time to balance the equation by giving some armoured vehicles and anti tank guns to Afghanistan. The message will be clear that, we want a balance between Pakistan and Afghanistan. Otherwise Pakistan will take advantage of its conventional superiority over Afghanistan.

 

[pmaitra]

those T-55 is for Pak Afghanistan and Iran Pak border 'most probably'. They will upgrade it's firing control system.

This is the best time to balance the equation by giving some armoured vehicles and anti tank guns to Afghanistan. The message will be clear that, we want a balance between Pakistan and Afghanistan. Otherwise Pakistan will take advantage of its conventional superiority over Afghanistan.

That is one possibility. The other possibility is that Pakistan is grooming its Taliban for a future takeover of Kabul. A strong Afghanistan means Khyber-Pukhtunkhwa might want to merge with Afghanistan. The Pakistanis don't want that, so they need strategic depth in Afghanistan.

 

[Screambowl]

That is one possibility. The other possibility is that Pakistan is grooming its Taliban for a future takeover of Kabul. A strong Afghanistan means Khyber-Pukhtunkhwa might want to merge with Afghanistan. The Pakistanis don't want that, so they need strategic depth in Afghanistan.

If Imran Khan comes in power, the relation with Afghanistan will most probably bloom in his leadership. He will play his Pathan card for sure.

 

[manindra]

If Imran Khan comes in power, the relation with Afghanistan will most probably bloom in his leadership. He will play his Pathan card for sure.

Pathan & Diplomacy does not go hand to hand. Kidding
Well Imran Khan is political noob & Nawaz Sharif & Zardari beat him any day in Diplomacy.

 

[aliyah]

If Imran Khan comes in power, the relation with Afghanistan will most probably bloom in his leadership. He will play his Pathan card for sure.

politician running foreign diplomacy of pak.......when did that happen.......

 

[blueblood]

If Imran Khan comes in power, the relation with Afghanistan will most probably bloom in his leadership. He will play his Pathan card for sure.

Imran Khan is a very clueless politician. As a Pathan who grew up in Punjab, speak Punjabi, his Pathan credentials are pretty weak for an Afghan and I could be wrong but making a Youthia out of Afghans is a difficult task anyways.

Army will eat him up and spit him out. He will be reduced to an errand boy.

 

[sorcerer]

Pak training Afghan Soldiers ...
What an Irony!!!

Looks like the Afghan Army is better trained than Paki circus.

 

[sorcerer]

We could have supplied them with those weapons, but what is the guarantee that two years down the line there won't be a new regime hostile to India? As much as we want to help Afghanistan, harsh realities are restricting us to limit our help to civil and non-lethal assistance.

Absolutely...Ghani is such a symptom. Pro Peace dummies would spoil the position for India.

 

[pmaitra]

Absolutely...Ghani is such a symptom. Pro Peace dummies would spoil the position for India.

I so much wanted Abdullah Abdullah to become the leader. I am not a great fan of this Ghani guy, and he seems to be failing to keep up the all-inclusive governance that Karzai so painstakingly nurtured, which albeit was imperfect and not corruption-free, but it worked.

 

[Blackwater]

Pak training Afghan Soldiers ...
What an Irony!!!

Looks like the Afghan Army is better trained than Paki circus.

y not trained by pakis

after all pakistan is only islami atmi aukuwat.

thakedar of muslim ummah

its their moral right to train all islami soldier including ISIS

 

[pmaitra]

Pak training Afghan Soldiers ...
What an Irony!!!

Looks like the Afghan Army is better trained than Paki circus.

y not trained by pakis

after all pakistan is only islami atmi aukuwat.

thakedar of muslim ummah

its their moral right to train all islami soldier including ISIS

Are you guys sure? I recall seeing a report that the Pakistani cricketers were training Afghan cricketers. I think that news got distorted into Pakistani Army training Afghan Army. I believe there was a joint exercise, but AFAIK, Afghan Army is trained by US.

 

[sorcerer]

Are you guys sure? I recall seeing a report that the Pakistani cricketers were training Afghan cricketers. I think that news got distorted into Pakistani Army training Afghan Army. I believe there was a joint exercise, but AFAIK, Afghan Army is trained by US.

Pakistan trains Afghan army cadets
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-31164119
[ Its a sh!t post so posting a BBC link ]

I was being sarcastic about the whole training circus

When Hamid Karzai sat in Afghanistan’s presidential palace, he often treated Pakistan with outright contempt. Karzai repeatedly turned down offers to train Afghan National Security Forces (ANSF) at the Pakistani Military Academy in Abbottabad, sending elite recruits to train in India. By the time Karzai left office last August, he’d accepted $2 billion in weapons from India. There seemed to be very little doubt over who had become Kabul’s patron.

For Ghani, why take the risk? Afghan officials in the past have expressed fears that Pakistan has taken the liberty of spying on them, and Islamabad’s approval among most working-age citizens remains perilously low. Some military officials, like General Atiqullah Amarkhail, former commander of Afghanistan’s Air Force, are also expressing displeasure. “It is a bad idea to send officers to Pakistan for military trainings,”

http://thediplomat.com/2015/04/why-pakistan-is-footing-the-bill-for-afghan-army-training/



The new incident mocks at this whole circus of Ghani !

 

[pmaitra]

Thanks @sorcerer. I stand corrected.

 

[sorcerer]

y not trained by pakis

after all pakistan is only islami atmi aukuwat.

thakedar of muslim ummah

its their moral right to train all islami soldier including ISIS

But the disciples are outwitting their terror guru the Pakistan..and Pakistan is crying foul.

 

[Screambowl]

politician running foreign diplomacy of pak.......when did that happen.......

IK has army's support and this is what every one(other politicians) fears