Aero India 2023

Corvus Splendens

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So much hype because the US brought this over. How many products does the US send to all these shows and none ever get ordered

as the US official said india hasn’t even asked forthe F35 as of yet

The reality is the US won’t sell the F35 to india without a LOT of agreements signed first. India is not a NATO member and has S400, just to get into a position to have the F35 on the table a lot of work will have to go on. Then you hand it over to the IAF and MoD babus and as the MRFA and MQ9B sagas have shown the drama is only just beginning at that point. It would be 10+ years before they are even in a place to sign a deal imo (conservatively talking). Unless AMCA spectacularly fails there’s no scope here. Then again if MRFA fails to take off the import armed forces will be desperate to start their next mega deal circus.

for sure the defence fanboy/blog base will be demanding the F35 for india for the next 20 years but reality has a way of winning out

(for as much as they are utterly devoid of urgency one can count on MoD babus to extract a pound of flesh and make demands that the US simply won’t be willing to pay for their premier strike fighter. There’s a reason DTTI has delivered next to nothing in >10 years and why the MQ9B saga drags on with the US having to agree that india will be the first country outside of the US to have assembly for the birds)
They are merely dangling a juicy carrot in front of us. See this ? you want this ? let's talk, come negotiate.
 

abingdonboy

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An opportunity wasted. Why Govt could not club all Indian Civil Aviation Orders and offer that to Boeing / Airbus as an incentive to manufacture here in India. Its criminal waste of forex
GoI’s make in india policy is a farce if they aren’t able to use India’s massive market for airliners to translate into local assembly.

in the next 5 years india will be in the top 3 aviation markets in the world but will be the only one without final assembly of airliners intended for their market.

don’t need top down intervention like clubbing orders together (can’t see how that would work given different private entities and their own incentives), just do what US and China do- impose tariffs on planes made outside And incentivise local assembly

what an unfathomable failure by GoI
 

AnantS

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GoI’s make in india policy is a farce if they aren’t able to use India’s massive market for airliners to translate into local assembly.

in the next 5 years india will be in the top 3 aviation markets in the world but will be the only one without final assembly of airliners intended for their market.

don’t need top down intervention like clubbing orders together (can’t see how that would work given different private entities and their own incentives), just do what US and China do- impose tariffs on planes made outside And incentivise local assembly

what an unfathomable failure by GoI
They are using such massive order for chump change as placating Nations and announcing it as 'deep ties'. That immaturity. China for all its faults and demons - they must be commended for having clarity on goals and laser sharp focus and will to attain them. Can India do that?
 

Love Charger

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@mist_consecutive
@abingdonboy
@FalconSlayers
@Tactical Doge
@Lonewolf
Now that I have made by stomach content with a plate of fried momos
iam all fired up, so let's duuuuuuhhhhh it. For iam not of juice yet. Huh haaaaaaa!!!



Gentlemen, here is what I think should be the course of action for the Airforce to maintain a respectable strength .the side favoring self reliance Or as we say it in native parlance " Aaatm nirbharta " We need numbers and we need them now .
We know that our war will be with china and Pakistan and Chinese are an industrial juggernaut and if Pakistan wishes to have a go on us at the same time we are engaged in a conflict with Chinese, be assured that they will replinish their losses quickly.
Chinese won't leave any stone unturned to keep our forces busy.
They will supply the pakistanis generously.
( don't say that Chinese are miser, for in a war like situation they do have the capacity to cast out their misery and become generous for once)
The atm nirbhar group should concede to the airforces demand for 114 MRFA fighters.
And they should direct the psus to focus on completion of domestic orders foremost.
Iam not saying that we go out and buy F 35 outright but if these outrageous timelines by HAL continue, then I fear we will be forced to do so!
Aieforce has commited to tejas mk2, the interviews of previous airchief are a testimony to same.
But to place orders we need to have a plane, where is tejas mk 2 ?
Apart from models in airshows, where is it?
Also HAL needs to be taken to task for diverting funds on numerous different projects like this HLFT 42 and tejas trainer variants just so that it can compete in foreign tenders.
Understand the gravity of situation, we need numbers and we need them now.
Upgradtion of old fleets and if possible refurbishment of recently retired planes like mig 27 too should be considered in my opinion.
We just don't have enough bogies to field against the enemy.
 

abingdonboy

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Ya'll Nibbiars The Chairman N Chandrasekaran says group looking to bring civil aircraft manufacturing to India aviation.

View attachment 193654
Eyewash as usual and no specifics. Indian private sector is just as inept and happy to rely on imports as the rest.

wont be surprised if he’s referring to their previously stated goal to offer C295 to civil operators
 

johnj

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Now that I have made by stomach content with a plate of fried momos
iam all fired up, so let's duuuuuuhhhhh it. For iam not of juice yet. Huh haaaaaaa!!!



Gentlemen, here is what I think should be the course of action for the Airforce to maintain a respectable strength .the side favoring self reliance Or as we say it in native parlance " Aaatm nirbharta " We need numbers and we need them now .
We know that our war will be with china and Pakistan and Chinese are an industrial juggernaut and if Pakistan wishes to have a go on us at the same time we are engaged in a conflict with Chinese, be assured that they will replinish their losses quickly.
Chinese won't leave any stone unturned to keep our forces busy.
They will supply the pakistanis generously.
( don't say that Chinese are miser, for in a war like situation they do have the capacity to cast out their misery and become generous for once)
The atm nirbhar group should concede to the airforces demand for 114 MRFA fighters.
And they should direct the psus to focus on completion of domestic orders foremost.
Iam not saying that we go out and buy F 35 outright but if these outrageous timelines by HAL continue, then I fear we will be forced to do so!
Aieforce has commited to tejas mk2, the interviews of previous airchief are a testimony to same.
But to place orders we need to have a plane, where is tejas mk 2 ?
Apart from models in airshows, where is it?
Also HAL needs to be taken to task for diverting funds on numerous different projects like this HLFT 42 and tejas trainer variants just so that it can compete in foreign tenders.
Understand the gravity of situation, we need numbers and we need them now.
Upgradtion of old fleets and if possible refurbishment of recently retired planes like mig 27 too should be considered in my opinion.
We just don't have enough bogies to field against the enemy.
''Aieforce has commited to tejas mk2'' like mk1 or arjun, useless commitments.
Upgradation of old fleet not happening especially old russian ones.
114 mrfa/mmrca - not happing.
Right now we are having lca mk1[a] - order more
HLFT 42 and lca mk2 can do cas[mig27] and strike, escort resp. [iaf not interested in new supersonic trainer]
Cats pgrm also great but more time required to mature.
If you consider Chinese AF- iaf already lost its edge and not going to catch up anytime soon and looks like they field 6th gen when iaf start getting 5th gen[still unable to select engine jv]
 

abingdonboy

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@mist_consecutive
@abingdonboy
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@Tactical Doge
@Lonewolf
Now that I have made by stomach content with a plate of fried momos
iam all fired up, so let's duuuuuuhhhhh it. For iam not of juice yet. Huh haaaaaaa!!!



Gentlemen, here is what I think should be the course of action for the Airforce to maintain a respectable strength .the side favoring self reliance Or as we say it in native parlance " Aaatm nirbharta " We need numbers and we need them now .
We know that our war will be with china and Pakistan and Chinese are an industrial juggernaut and if Pakistan wishes to have a go on us at the same time we are engaged in a conflict with Chinese, be assured that they will replinish their losses quickly.
Chinese won't leave any stone unturned to keep our forces busy.
They will supply the pakistanis generously.
( don't say that Chinese are miser, for in a war like situation they do have the capacity to cast out their misery and become generous for once)
The atm nirbhar group should concede to the airforces demand for 114 MRFA fighters.
And they should direct the psus to focus on completion of domestic orders foremost.
Iam not saying that we go out and buy F 35 outright but if these outrageous timelines by HAL continue, then I fear we will be forced to do so!
Aieforce has commited to tejas mk2, the interviews of previous airchief are a testimony to same.
But to place orders we need to have a plane, where is tejas mk 2 ?
Apart from models in airshows, where is it?
Also HAL needs to be taken to task for diverting funds on numerous different projects like this HLFT 42 and tejas trainer variants just so that it can compete in foreign tenders.
Understand the gravity of situation, we need numbers and we need them now.
Upgradtion of old fleets and if possible refurbishment of recently retired planes like mig 27 too should be considered in my opinion.
We just don't have enough bogies to field against the enemy.
As usual the criticism of HAL doesn’t align with reality- HAL is not the development agency of LCA or AMCA

HLFT just like HTT40, LUH and LCH is being funded using internal money of HAL which is a corporatised entity with shareholders. So the argument money is being diverted from AMCA/LCA for use in these projects is entirely misguided if not flat out wrong.

on the point of delivering- they can’t deliver what they don’t have orders for. Before 2021 no LCA MK.1A was ordered. Until late 2022 LCA MK.2 wasn’t sanctioned and to this day AMCA is not funded

what orders do you want PSUs (HAL isn’t one by the way) to focus on? Nonexistent orders?
 

Love Charger

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As usual the criticism of HAL doesn’t align with reality- HAL is not the development agency of LCA or AMCA

HLFT just like HTT40, LUH and LCH is being funded using internal money of HAL which is a corporatised entity with shareholders. So the argument money is being diverted from AMCA/LCA for use in these projects is entirely misguided if not flat out wrong.

on the point of delivering- they can’t deliver what they don’t have orders for. Before 2021 no LCA MK.1A was ordered. Until late 2022 LCA MK.2 wasn’t sanctioned and to this day AMCA is not funded

what orders do you want PSUs (HAL isn’t one by the way) to focus on? Nonexistent orders?
Thanks singh ji, your replies are always helpful to gain new knowledge.
I wrote what I felt anyway.
 

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