ADA Tejas Mark-II/Medium Weight Fighter

[Rajaraja Chola]

By this time, we should have seen images of Mk2 on the jigs. Is there any pixs around?

 

[no smoking]

If you run the risk of the planes being grounded due to lack of engine spare parts then it is essentially prudent that you avoid that risk entirely!! Better that you have something flying albeit not as advanced than having nothing flying with the latest tech.

That's where risk management comes in. Other than engine parts, those foreign components don't prevent the planes from flying. The engine does and hence IAF needs a surefire way of making sure that it can fly those planes in face of severe US sanctions. That is an essential consideration the IAF needs to take into account.

No, manage the risk is not just avoiding the risk. You need estimate the possibility of the bad things happen, when it will happen, and what is the consequence, is there any way that you can reduce the impact.

If we take US engine as an example. The thing is that how possible US will impose a serious sanction like 1998 on India again within 20 years. The answer is very small if India don't take some extreme policies (i.e. nuclear test again).

What is the consequence? US will ban new engine export and component for old engine. So India will have to change the new jet design for other engines, big job, but acceptable. What about the existing engines? Simple, buy enough spare parts in the purchase.

What if those old jets need replacing US engines? Well, you can update them with other engines.

So, by this simple analysis, we can see using US engines is not as bad as you think.

Say all you want but the IAF needs to be told that they fight with what we have, not what they wish to have. IAF is falling into the trap of waiting for the next best thing before fighting. The enemy will not give you that time. So yeah I am gonna bitchslap IAF and say you volunteer to be the pilots for the IAF. You fight with what we have and stop bitching. As for protecting their lives with maximum effort does not mean caving in to all their demands and wishlist. They are given what we can afford to buy and can make because IAF is only one component of the overall defense plan and IAF needs to get aboard instead of sulking like a petulant child.

Soldiers have no problem to die in the fighting. But when you impose the immature products on them, they may die in the training in the peace time. That is a huge difference.

 

[HariPrasad-1]

I am just waiting for Tejas Mk. 2 to be included in DCS. I want to see dogfighting between Tejas Mk. 2 and F-22. If Gripen-E has sometimes beaten F-22 in dogfighting, Tejas Mk. 2 can too.

Gripen E is nowhere near F22. Only Su57 can defeat F22 in Dog fight. FOr the plane like Gripen, the kill ratio of F 22 will be between 50:1 to 100:1.

 

[Dark Sorrow]

I am just waiting for Tejas Mk. 2 to be included in DCS. I want to see dogfighting between Tejas Mk. 2 and F-22. If Gripen-E has sometimes beaten F-22 in dogfighting, Tejas Mk. 2 can too.

I would like to see MKI vs Mk. 2 in dogfight.

 

[HariPrasad-1]

While respecting your opinion I would like to know how will the Mirage 2000 be fully superior to the LCA mk2. The MWF/LCA mk2 with canards should have an superior flying envelope to the M2000. The thrust to weight ratio should be better because the GE 414 engine is an lower weight high thrust engine vis-a-vis the old engine in the M2000.

The MWF will have an IRST system and an on board oxygen generating system. It will have an Indian AESA radar Uttam mk2 (we are quite ahead in its development).
An vital improvement over the Pulse Doppler radar in the M2000.

As regards the payload both will be almost equal. I believe the MWF will have better cockpit displays compared to the M2000.

Let us not get into the comparison game. The M2000 is a fine aircraft and it has served the IAF well.

But the MWF is a newer design and incorporates newer technologies. Probably an generation ahead. I anticipate networking capabilities similar to the Gripen E(taking an positive attitude).

I even anticipate the MWF firing the Astra mk1(110 km range) , Astra mk 2 (160 km range) and the Astra mk3/SFDR(above 200 km range). The Meteor AAM may also be be part of the MWF's weapons package if all parties agree(India & France & MBDA).

So in what way will the MWF be inferior to the M2000.

I believe that the MWF will not be an paper plane. Because a lot of work has already been done to realise the various subsystems of the plane.

Why are attempts being made to question the utility of the MWF.
While the AMCA is very necessary and cutting edge technology, can anyone guarantee that there will be no delays in the realisation of the programme. In India delays in aerospace mean even an 10 year gap in the supposed to and actual induction dates. I would love to be proven wrong.

The one of the most important factor people do not discuss here is the length of Engine. F414 is one meter shorter than the engine of M2K. It provides a lots of space to accommodate lots of LRUS.

 

[HariPrasad-1]

I would like to see MKI vs Mk. 2 in dogfight.

MKI will have an upper edge because of TVC engine. However, in BVR combat, Scenario will be different. Once the MKI is made Super MKI, the scenario will change. MWF will detect MKI from far greater distance than MKI can detect MWF. MWF will have first look first shoot advantage.

 

[DEV1729]

If american software are controlled by cia establishment then think about the control they would have over their weapons.You cant buy usa made firearms you can just lease them but you need to pay the full price of their overpriced goods

Ksenia Vladimirovna (@registration). Ask me anything on ASKfm

Get in touch with Ksenia Vladimirovna (@registration) — 37 answers, 38 likes. Ask anything you want to learn about Ksenia Vladimirovna by getting answers on ASKfm.

ask.fm

This guy is a pesit student and a agile master did a awesome project on openstack
Here is the project in 2013 in pesit on hybrid stack then he went to pursue ms from northu

 

[Aditya Ballal]

If american software are controlled by cia establishment then think about the control they would have over their weapons.You cant buy usa made firearms you can just lease them but you need to pay the full price of their overpriced goods

Ksenia Vladimirovna (@registration). Ask me anything on ASKfm

Get in touch with Ksenia Vladimirovna (@registration) — 37 answers, 38 likes. Ask anything you want to learn about Ksenia Vladimirovna by getting answers on ASKfm.

ask.fm

This guy is a pesit student and a agile master did a awesome project on openstack
Here is the project in 2013 in pesit on hybrid stack then he went to pursue ms from northu

Please avoid posting such things on this thread unless it has a direct relation to the Tejas Mk2 program, there are other threads on DFI for this stuff. Unless you have something direct avoid assertions like this.

 

[SwordOfDarkness]

Yes, pilots are supposed to sacrifice their lives for the country.

Actually, no. Pilots are worth a lot more than their planes. Yes, they are supposed to risk their life, but no one wants them to sacrifice themselves.

 

[The Mimic]

MKI will have an upper edge because of TVC engine. However, in BVR combat, Scenario will be different. Once the MKI is made Super MKI, the scenario will change. MWF will detect MKI from far greater distance than MKI can detect MWF. MWF will have first look first shoot advantage.

In BVR, The scenario will remain the same even if MKI is made Super Sukhoi. Only AMCA can beat Super Sukhoi in both BVR and dogfighting.

 

[Super Flanker]

In BVR, The scenario will remain the same even if MKI is made Super Sukhoi. Only AMCA can beat Super Sukhoi in both BVR and dogfighting.

How can AMCA Beat Super Sukhoi or even current SU-30 MKI/SM in a dogfight? Yes agreed that in BVR, AMCA has the edge but in close range type dogfights, a Flanker would easily be able to out manouvere AMCA due it's superior Manouverability and will be able to Destroy it AFAIK.

 

[The Mimic]

Gripen E is nowhere near F22. Only Su57 can defeat F22 in Dog fight. FOr the plane like Gripen, the kill ratio of F 22 will be between 50:1 to 100:1.

I admit but I was talking about dogfighting in DCS. Now I know that it is no where relieble. But still I am excited for Tejas Mk. 2 vs. Raptor dogfighting.

 

[The Mimic]

How can AMCA Beat Super Sukhoi or even current SU-30 MKI/SM in a dogfight? Yes agreed that in BVR, AMCA has the edge but in close range type dogfights, a Flanker would easily be able to out manouvere AMCA due it's superior Manouverability and will be able to Destroy it AFAIK.

And AMCA is not super manoeuvrable? If I am not mistaken, its twr ratio is more than MKI. Wing Loading is also better. Not to mention it has also 3D thrust vectoring.

 

[Super Flanker]

And AMCA is not super manoeuvrable? If I am not mistaken, its twr ratio is more than MKI. Wing Loading is also better. Not to mention it has also 3D thrust vectoring.

No you are wrong, AMCA is not going to be super-Manouverable because AMCA MK-1 will be using GE-414 series engines as it's powerplant and GE-414 doesn't possess any kind of TVC Control (2 & 3 Axis) so no super Manouverability. I don't know about AMCA MK-2 though but I would say that even AMCA MK-2 won't be having any kind of TVC to it. And anyways TVC is not needed for a Stealth aircraft like AMCA.

 

[The Mimic]

No you are wrong, AMCA is not going to be super-Manouverable because AMCA MK-1 will be using GE-414 series engines as it's powerplant and GE-414 doesn't possess any kind of TVC Control (2 & 3 Axis) so no super Manouverability. I don't know about AMCA MK-2 though but I would say that even AMCA MK-2 won't be having any kind of TVC to it. And anyways TVC is not needed for a Stealth aircraft like AMCA.

It does not need but they will include it.

 

[Super Flanker]

It does not need but they will include it.

Why would the respective authorities working on AMCA (i.e ADA) include a feature like TVC in AMCA when it is never needed in the 1st place? Like I said, AMCA MK-1 will not be having any type of TVC because all MK-1 will be using GE-414 engines and GE-414 doesn't have TVC Capability of any sort. MK-2 might but that too is very unlikely to happen.

 

[The Mimic]

Why would the respective authorities working on AMCA (i.e ADA) include a feature like TVC in AMCA when it is never needed in the 1st place? Like I said, AMCA MK-1 will not be having any type of TVC because all MK-1 will be using GE-414 engines and GE-414 doesn't have TVC Capability of any sort. MK-2 might but that too is very unlikely to happen.

If you have doubts, you can go to them and consult them. Their design philosophy was stealth as well as super manoeuvrability.

 

[Super Flanker]

If you have doubts, you can go to them and consult them. Their design philosophy was stealth as well as super manoeuvrability.

Well I just went through Google and there are several sources quoting words like :-

"AMCA will be equipped with advanced AESA radar, supermaneuverability, data fusion, and advanced avionics. Reports suggest that the fighter program will be developed in a joint venture with a private company, something that has not been done in India so far"

Source of Copypaste :-

India's 5th-Gen Aircraft: IAF To Model Its AMCA On US' F-35s Instead Of J-20 Or Su-57 Jets - Experts

India is on course to develop its very own fifth-generation multirole fighter jet, expected to enter service in the next decade. With this, India will join the league of the US, Russia, and China, which boast advanced jets such as F-35, Su-57, and J-20, respectively. World’s 1st Stealth Fighter...

eurasiantimes.com

DISCLAIMER : When I speak of AMCA now than I will be speaking strictly about the MK-1 variant.

This is interesting, I wonder how can AMCA have super Manouverability when it will never even have engines in the 1st place with TVC Capability which will enable it to be a super-manouverable. I think so that this claim that AMCA will be super-manouverable is nothing but some stupid Media stuff, other than the super Manouverable part, everything else is true but like I said, it is still not possible. MK-2 has a chance of having TVC and hence super Manouverability.

 

[The Mimic]

Well I just went through Google and there are several sources quoting words like :-

"AMCA will be equipped with advanced AESA radar, supermaneuverability, data fusion, and advanced avionics. Reports suggest that the fighter program will be developed in a joint venture with a private company, something that has not been done in India so far"

Source of Copypaste :-

India's 5th-Gen Aircraft: IAF To Model Its AMCA On US' F-35s Instead Of J-20 Or Su-57 Jets - Experts

India is on course to develop its very own fifth-generation multirole fighter jet, expected to enter service in the next decade. With this, India will join the league of the US, Russia, and China, which boast advanced jets such as F-35, Su-57, and J-20, respectively. World’s 1st Stealth Fighter...

eurasiantimes.com

DISCLAIMER : When I speak of AMCA now than I will be speaking strictly about the MK-1 variant.

This is interesting, I wonder how can AMCA have super Manouverability when it will never even have engines in the 1st place with TVC Capability which will enable it to be a super-manouverable. I think so that this claim that AMCA will be super-manouverable is nothing but some stupid Media stuff, other than the super Manouverable part, everything else is true but like I said, it is still not possible. MK-2 has a chance of having TVC and hence super Manouverability.

Ok. Let's hope in any of the next interview, someone should ask about this. Finger crossed. Back to Tejas Mk. 2 discussion.

 

[Super Flanker]

Ok. Let's hope in any of the next interview, someone should ask about this. Finger crossed. Back to Tejas Mk. 2 discussion.

If you want to know more about AMCA or want to discuss about AMCA in detail than please kindly refer to the AMCA thread which is already present on this Forum. We will end Discusssion of AMCA here.