ADA Tejas Mark-II/Medium Weight Fighter

[Vamsi]

Spoiler

 

[flanker99]

Spoiler

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If ff by late 24-early 25 then rollout must happen by late 23-early 24 ...lets see what happens

 

[jai jaganath]

Spoiler

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Who knows there might be change too
Right now directors can't be trusted with timelines atleast

 

[Abheer Parashar]

I pray to God that some stupid beanie in the US State of Dept gets the bright idea of banning sales of GE404/414 to India based on some requirement of India not supporting Ukraine or something. Once that happens, GoI will finally tell IAF to shut the fuck up and go with Kaveri no matter what and go full speed on it. This way, India will achieve indigenous capability of designing & producing engines with thrust of 100 KN or higher.

I agree with you sir, bcz as they say, "Necessity is the mother of all inventions."

 

[SwordOfDarkness]

I agree with you sir, bcz as they say, "Necessity is the mother of all inventions."

There is a thin line between being hopeful and being delusional.


Yes, I can guarantee we will develop an engine on our own. And if the sole purpose of the existence of our country was to develop our own engine, go for it.

However, as far as my understanding goes, we have greater aspirations than this - And we do not have a cooperative environment. Kaveri, even if attempted to be developed with no monetary constraints, will take 10 years at the very least, and will still be less reliable and underpowered compared to the engines we currently use. Till then, our Tejas MK-1, MK-2, AMCA, TEDBF cannot take their first flight - Meaning that we will have our next aircraft being ordered around 2037 (Tejas MK-2). This is much longer than even the most pessimistic timelines, and leaves our air force next to useless in a near peer confrontation

Realistically, if GE export is banned, then we will have to go for redesign with a European engine, not Kaveri. It is important to develop Kaveri, but not at the cost of everything else.

 

[Blademaster]

There is a thin line between being hopeful and being delusional.


Yes, I can guarantee we will develop an engine on our own. And if the sole purpose of the existence of our country was to develop our own engine, go for it.

However, as far as my understanding goes, we have greater aspirations than this - And we do not have a cooperative environment. Kaveri, even if attempted to be developed with no monetary constraints, will take 10 years at the very least, and will still be less reliable and underpowered compared to the engines we currently use. Till then, our Tejas MK-1, MK-2, AMCA, TEDBF cannot take their first flight - Meaning that we will have our next aircraft being ordered around 2037 (Tejas MK-2). This is much longer than even the most pessimistic timelines, and leaves our air force next to useless in a near peer confrontation

Realistically, if GE export is banned, then we will have to go for redesign with a European engine, not Kaveri. It is important to develop Kaveri, but not at the cost of everything else.

I strongly disagree. There's nothing as powerful motivation than having your back against the wall and no way out but to fight on. You think Kaveri will take that long based on past performance but remember GoI only supported it half heartedly and was never really serious about it and was always looking for the easy way out or a shortcut. What happens if you have no shortcut or easy way out and then the only way is forward no matter what.

Do not underestimate the power of necessity, intention, and will.

 

[SwordOfDarkness]

I strongly disagree. There's nothing as powerful motivation than having your back against the wall and no way out but to fight on. You think Kaveri will take that long based on past performance but remember GoI only supported it half heartedly and was never really serious about it and was always looking for the easy way out or a shortcut. What happens if you have no shortcut or easy way out and then the only way is forward no matter what.

Do not underestimate the power of necessity, intention, and will.

Incorrect. I do not think it will take 10 years based on past performance. I am just providing a realistic timeline with regards to a jet engine.

First - US sanctions are not "back against the wall". Rolls Royce and Safran will be drooling to sell their engines in their place. Less suited, but they will do.

Second - Yes, it is a great motivator regardless. Yet motivations by themselves do not bear results - It requires time, money, and preexisting knowledge. Money we can throw at it, but what about time? IAF is already in a not so good spot w.r.t. china, what do you want them to do if PLA rolls down the Himalayas? Or you think the chinese will sit and decide not to invade to give us a fair chance at developing engines?

IAF needed fighters a decade back, we are a bit too late already. I agree with the push to not import aircraft, even if it impacts IAF a bit in numbers because it secures our future. But it is lunacy to refuse new planes till (and IF, which isnt a small if) we get our own engine.

Assume most agressive timeline. Indians become godly geniuses and put out a final design in 5 years. 2 years of testing the engine. Atleast 3 years of running the engine on the actual plane in TD to make sure the thing can handle fighter jet stress.

This alone is 8 years of delay, compared to the cribbing people do about 1-2 year delays.

And this is just for one engine. We need atleast 2, if not 3 engines for the fighters we are going to be building now.

Much better to use what is available as of now, while trying to shift production of engines and spares on to our territory. Pay an established engine designer company to build one for us, then tinker with the design to get more engines.

 

[Abheer Parashar]

Indigenous IRST system enters lab testing phase, fighter integration soon.

The Indigenous infrared search and track (IRST) system that is under development for the Russian Su-30MKI fighter jets and Tejas MkII fighter jets has entered the laboratory testing phase and soon more tests are been planned after which it will commence the airborne flight testing phase.

IRST system that also incorporates a missile approach warning system (MAWS) is capable of tracking multiple targets and offers a large field-of-view (FOV) and will be ready for integration into Sukhoi-30MKI within 12-18 months after completion of the laboratory testing phase.

IRST system will also be incorporated for the first time in Tejas Mk2 aircraft and also on the TEDBF Deck-based fighter program. The Indigenous IRST system will replace the Russian-origin OLS-30 system on the entire Sukhoi-30MKI fleet from 2026 onwards when it enters full-scale production.

 

[Abheer Parashar]

Indigenous IRST system enters lab testing phase, fighter integration soon.

The Indigenous infrared search and track (IRST) system that is under development for the Russian Su-30MKI fighter jets and Tejas MkII fighter jets has entered the laboratory testing phase and soon more tests are been planned after which it will commence the airborne flight testing phase.

IRST system that also incorporates a missile approach warning system (MAWS) is capable of tracking multiple targets and offers a large field-of-view (FOV) and will be ready for integration into Sukhoi-30MKI within 12-18 months after completion of the laboratory testing phase.

IRST system will also be incorporated for the first time in Tejas Mk2 aircraft and also on the TEDBF Deck-based fighter program. The Indigenous IRST system will replace the Russian-origin OLS-30 system on the entire Sukhoi-30MKI fleet from 2026 onwards when it enters full-scale production.

Source :- Indian Defence Research Wing

 

[Flying Dagger]

What's the point of having an engine program when you don't have fighter jets to power?
Do you think IAF will wait for DRDO to create an engine test it validate it and then use it in the fighter?
The idea currently is good a jv is needed one which may help us build an engine from scratch inhouse if possible.
If not keep working on Kaveri in the sidelines.

We have multiple fighter jets and trainer from Tejas AMCA tedbf and even Rafale which need similar engine . If we succeed can create a family of engines around it saving billions of dollar .

 

[Gyyan]

We

We have multiple fighter jets and trainer from Tejas AMCA tedbf and even Rafale which need similar engine . If we succeed can create a family of engines around it saving billions of dollar .

We also need billions and time for that...i dont think GTRE has either.

 

[Abheer Parashar]

saving billions of dollar

And maybe earning billions of dollar as well.

 

[Abheer Parashar]

We

We also need billions and time for that...i dont think GTRE has either.

The government needs to make this whole damned jet engine project a project handled by a large consortium containing :- IIT(Madras, Bombay and Kanpur), IISC Bangalore, GTRE, AERDC(HAL), Private Companies.

 

[Gyyan]

 

[samsaptaka]

If true, Finally the clowns in air HQ learned the proper way to do this.

Yeah I recall HVT sir also tweeting about a similar process some time back. We need this change of thinking in army also

 

[jai jaganath]

 

[silverghost]

I strongly disagree. There's nothing as powerful motivation than having your back against the wall and no way out but to fight on. You think Kaveri will take that long based on past performance but remember GoI only supported it half heartedly and was never really serious about it and was always looking for the easy way out or a shortcut. What happens if you have no shortcut or easy way out and then the only way is forward no matter what.

Do not underestimate the power of necessity, intention, and will.

Let's assume that in 5+ years we develop Kaveri then what happens? Do you think Kaveri is a drop-in replacement for F414? Also, 5+ years is R&D, how long would it take to manufacture Kaveri? Now add all these years to the Mk2 timeline & see what it looks like. BTW, IAF would love this plan, they will go to the MoD & ask them to scrap the Mk2, pool in the money, and buy more European fighter jets. If Europe also sanctions us, then Russia is there to sell its Mig 35 & SU 75.

 

[prasadr14]

Let's assume that in 5+ years we develop Kaveri then what happens? Do you think Kaveri is a drop-in replacement for F414? Also, 5+ years is R&D, how long would it take to manufacture Kaveri? Now add all these years to the Mk2 timeline & see what it looks like. BTW, IAF would love this plan, they will go to the MoD & ask them to scrap the Mk2, pool in the money, and buy more European fighter jets. If Europe also sanctions us, then Russia is there to sell its Mig 35 & SU 75.

Even if your points are valid, Kaveri development must continue.
There is no one who will give us Engine tech, we are on our own and develop and use Kaveri where ever possible.
regarding timelines, although disappointing, we should not care.
Engine tech is one of the top most tech which we must develop at any cost.

 

[lcafanboy]

So, LCA mk2 is delayed hence the reason for 50 more LCA mk1a to keep line busy...
Ho Gaya Atmanirbhar Bharat....

 

[Gyyan]

So, LCA mk2 is delayed hence the reason for 50 more LCA mk1a to keep line busy...
Ho Gaya Atmanirbhar Bharat....

More delays...i means the last was 24-25 for rollout?