ADA Tejas Mark-II/Medium Weight Fighter

[Blademaster]

It's a complete new aircraft designed in 2019.
2027 is too unrealistic date for starting production

Then it is a new wing. If that's the case, dump the Mk2 and just mass produce the heck out of Mk1 and focus all efforts on AMCA and the next generation of single engine fighter. We are wasting time and resources. IAF, MoD and Cabinet are seriously brain damaged and retarded.

 

[Rajaraja Chola]

It's a complete new aircraft designed in 2019.
2027 is too unrealistic date for starting production

Did I give the date? Rather it’s HAL and ADA bragging to every available media outlet. But IAF was the only one talking the truth. Or maybe half truth. They might have the changes the specs every now and then. And it’s not a completely new aircraft. The avionics and test systems are supposed to from Tejas Mk1A which are already certified. So all they need to validate is the aircraft aerodynamics and FBW.
But it seems it’s not the case as with technology advances, IAF probably wants latest gadgets or updated ones on new aircraft’s.

 

[Flying Dagger]

It's a complete new aircraft designed in 2019.
2027 is too unrealistic date for starting production

Not completely new

Having said that .... Everyone knows the delay will happen that's why IAF and all sane mind want a repeat order for Rafale.

If we get them fine else... We have been trying to walk in air for decades, a few more will follow.

 

[Kuldeepm952]

That guy never questioned as to why Sweden took 8 years to deliver Gripen E to Brazil, very well represents where his interests lie

Yeah, openly weighing on Gripen E and calling it a good for for IAF while perfectly knowing that it's essentially like killing Tejas mk2. Vayu deserves every bunch of that bashing.

 

[Flying Dagger]

Then it is a new wing. If that's the case, dump the Mk2 and just mass produce the heck out of Mk1 and focus all efforts on AMCA and the next generation of single engine fighter. We are wasting time and resources. IAF, MoD and Cabinet are seriously brain damaged and retarded.

Mk1 got no juice ... to be mass produced in 2030s+.

Mk2 is still on time some delay is expected . Atleast let's see how the prototypes performs.

 

[Kuldeepm952]

I guess for every aviation enthusiast in India, it's better to say that come back after like 2026/27. AMCA, mwf or tedbf will come only after that time period.
For IAF, we will likely see strength going even down further now that nothing is going as planned. Even the much taunted MMRCA won't result in something before 2030.

So, basically saying that this decade is also a LOST one in squadron increasing effort. I am gonna focus on ground stuff, atleast things can be expected relatively fast there.

 

[Aniruddha Mulay]

I guess for every aviation enthusiast in India, it's better to say that come back after like 2026/27. AMCA, mwf or tedbf will come only after that time period.
For IAF, we will likely see strength going even down further now that nothing is going as planned. Even the much taunted MMRCA won't result in something before 2030.

So, basically saying that this decade is also a LOST one in squadron increasing effort. I am gonna focus on ground stuff, atleast things can be expected relatively fast there.

This can easily be addressed if the IAF orders 3-4 squadrons of Tejas Mk1A to address critical deficiencies, Tejas Mk1A will be delivered faster than either MRFA or Tejas Mk2

 

[Aniruddha Mulay]

Why was the CCS approval delayed? There has to be an explanation for that, but most likely not available to us

CCS approval was delayed because CDR approval by IAF was delayed.
The current Tejas Mk2 design was finalized in 2019, there was absolutely zero movement on its CDR approval up until September 2021, and within 1 year of CDR approval, funds were cleared for prototype construction

 

[jai jaganath]

Nobody bragged anything here. If the IAF accepted CDR only in November 2021 and the subsequent CCS clearance in Aug 2022 they are not getting a new prototype rolled out in 1 year(2023) or 2 year(2024). Basic common sense.
View attachment 191057

So basically we can expect production by 2034-35 optimistically

 

[Aniruddha Mulay]

While entire world moves on to sixth gen aircraft we will bring a 4th gen aircraft in 2030s.

Already our infantry looks it came straight out of WW2.

Evolution is happening but backwards.

France must be stupid to pour billions in introducing F4, F5 upgrades to Rafale every few years, isn't it??

 

[Knowitall]

France must be stupid to pour billions in introducing F4, F5 upgrades to Rafale every few years, isn't it??

France is already working on its 6th gen aircraft and rafale is purely to keep its domestic industry busy at the moment.

There is a difference between constant upgrades to keep an aircraft relevant and introducing a brand new one in 2030s.

 

[Blackmamba]

France is already working on its 6th gen aircraft and rafale is purely to keep its domestic industry busy at the moment.

There is a difference between constant upgrades to keep an aircraft relevant and introducing a brand new one in 2030s.

5 th gen 6th gen are just clever marketing technique , a R 73 missile fired from a mig 21 will shoot down a f 22 same way it shot a F 16. What we need quantity of airframes like mk1a to keep parity with PLAAF.

 

[Gyyan]

5 th gen 6th gen are just clever marketing technique , a R 73 missile fired from a mig 21 will shoot down a f 22 same way it shot a F 16. What we need quantity of airframes like mk1a to keep parity with PLAAF.

Agree on the keeping up numbers for parity but comparing a f22 with mig 21 is just plain stupid.

 

[Photon]

Look like TEDBF will fly before MK-2

 

[Blackmamba]

Agree on the keeping up numbers for parity but comparing a f22 with mig 21 is just plain stupid.

whether you are a mig 21 or a f22, a R 73 missile will not give you any special treatment .

 

[Kuldeepm952]

This can easily be addressed if the IAF orders 3-4 squadrons of Tejas Mk1A to address critical deficiencies, Tejas Mk1A will be delivered faster than either MRFA or Tejas Mk2

This will may happen, higher chances, if the procurement of MRFA goes to ditch just like almost every other rfi procurement. MMRCA 1.0 has left such a bad taste that even imagining any big fighter orders is hard.

 

[Aniruddha Mulay]

France is already working on its 6th gen aircraft and rafale is purely to keep its domestic industry busy at the moment.

There is a difference between constant upgrades to keep an aircraft relevant and introducing a brand new one in 2030s.

The French 6th gen aircraft isn't going to be in service atleast until 2040, and Rafale isn't going away atleast till 2070.
6th gen is yet to be defined and the 5th gen itself is so cost prohibitive that it cannot fully replace 4/4.5 gen aircraft, not to mention that it comes with its own set of limitations in order to maintain its stealth signature.
Even the USAF is considering developing a 4.5 gen aircraft to deal with threats where a 5th gen aircraft is deemed way too overkill.
So, to conclude, it makes absolute sense to go forth with a 4.5 gen program even in the 2030s.

 

[skunk works]

whether you are a mig 21 or a f22, a R 73 missile will not give you any special treatment .

The US had classified infrared decoys 30 years ago that the MiG-21 or the R73 cannot dream of.

 

[skunk works]

The French 6th gen aircraft isn't going to be in service atleast until 2040, and Rafale isn't going away atleast till 2070.
6th gen is yet to be defined and the 5th gen itself is so cost prohibitive that it cannot fully replace 4/4.5 gen aircraft, not to mention that it comes with its own set of limitations in order to maintain its stealth signature.
Even the USAF is considering developing a 4.5 gen aircraft to deal with threats where a 5th gen aircraft is deemed way too overkill.
So, to conclude, it makes absolute sense to go forth with a 4.5 gen program even in the 2030s.

The US has one enemy with 5th gen capability deployed en masse (PRC).
At the speed with which IAF is going, India will have 3 (PRC, Pak, Turkey) FGFA adversaries while we are still jerking around with LCA MK1/1A/2

 

[Rajaraja Chola]

Nobody bragged anything here. If the IAF accepted CDR only in November 2021 and the subsequent CCS clearance in Aug 2022 they are not getting a new prototype rolled out in 1 year(2023) or 2 year(2024). Basic common sense.
View attachment 191057

I would suggest to go just 10 pages back and see the timelines given by ADA/HAL chairman. Even when CCS approved it, news came in, prototype started, landing gears delivered, FBW completed and roll out by Dec 2023.

Now official dates are given. Thing is what can we do? Average voting public doesn’t care about meeting deadline in such projects nor does our GoI routinely gives out jumlas in name of AoN, RFI etc circus.

IAF has been steadfast in MRFA and people have been vociferous in killing MRFA cos Tejas Mk2 was supposed to come in by 2027-28. Now IAF has been proven right that ADA and HAL teams are just mouth losers. MRFA now must proceed in earnest.

India will loose 3 Mig21 and probably 2 older Jags squadron before 2026. Our Squadron strength will go down to 27-28.

@abingdonboy seems IAF is proved right after all