ADA Tejas Mark-II/Medium Weight Fighter

[IndianHawk]

More rafales will come too . That is inevitable. We need those rafales to hold the for.t untill AMCA has decent numbers in service to maintain technical superiority over pork and chink.

Meanwhile lca mk2 is the only realistic option to stop falling squadron strength so it's going no where.

 

[vishnugupt]

India's Hierarchical offices possess best brain but unfortunately they use it against interest of India.

This Israeli born and French brought up UN general is also smart one. He came as ACM at the time Theaterisation was taking place and IAF as usual short of squadrons. Somehow this guy has also deeply involved in theaterisation and know exactly where it could be choked.

He is pressing the exact weak point of theaterisation. Low squadron!! So what MoD should do??

ACM :- MRFA

Why MRFA ? Why not MWF? Well, it's obvious to everyone.

ACM is just keeping MWF down deliberately. It's quite possible their internal documents say something else and propaganda says just opposite.

 

[IndianHawk]

So these 6 squadrons are for fleet and capability enhancer
I don't think 6 squadrons will be enough to replace jags, mig-29s, mirages
For those replacement additional 10+ squadrons required

Yes more squadrons will be required. But look at the timelines. 6sq or 120 lca mk2 will be delivered from 2027-28 to 2032-33. @24 per year. We shall have simultaneous induction of more rafale in similar period.

And by 2032 AMCA mk1 shall be incoming.

So we have 120 lca mk2 + 114 rafale + 40 AMCA mk1 (2 sq) coming in between 2027-2035.)

These are 274 jets as against loss of 120 jags, 50mirage and 65 mig 29. ( Total 235 jets retired).

After this they may either order more mk2 with some improvements or increase numbers of AMCA depending upon what works out better

 

[vishnugupt]

If IAF can't support MWF today than they have no right to cry later if MWF get delayed.

I laugh to see how easily FDIans add 114 random MRFA when they calculate future squadrons.

This MRFA or MRCA or 5th and 6th generation technologies in 4th generation aircraft or 100% ToT with 100% make in India will never going to happened.

Opposition will kill GOI this time. GoI can't defend MRFA and MWF at the same time.

Just wait for few more years... Around 2027/28, IAF will wake up into reality.

 

[WARREN SS]

More rafales will come too . That is inevitable. We need those rafales to hold the for.t untill AMCA has decent numbers in service to maintain technical superiority over pork and chink.

Meanwhile lca mk2 is the only realistic option to stop falling squadron strength so it's going no where.

Stupidity buy 114 rafale
If this mrfa deals go through

Rather buy F-35

As AMCA will be first operational squadrons
By 2030-2032

Spending 20 billion $ on fourth generation that to foreign
Is not viable

We are buying f-18

Why not arm twist murica for F-35

With it atleast have supremacy over skies against pla for atleast next 2 decades

 

[WARREN SS]

If IAF can't support MWF today than they have no right to cry later if MWF get delayed.

I laugh to see how easily FDIans add 114 random MRFA when they calculate future squadrons.

This MRFA or MRCA or 5th and 6th generation technologies in 4th generation aircraft or 100% ToT with 100% make in India will never going to happened.

Opposition will kill GOI this time. GoI can't defend MRFA and MWF at the same time.

Just wait for few more years... Around 2027/28, IAF will wake up into reality.

Mrfa is not For tot its For immediate national security

Mwf and amca still atleast 10-12 years away from being adequate numbers

U think PLAAF

Will wait for IAF to again strengthen till than

After Ukraine and Russian war

I Don't rule out anything until 2030

 

[Shuturmurg]

Stupidity buy 114 rafale
If this mrfa deals go through

Rather buy F-35

As AMCA will be first operational squadrons
By 2030-2032

Spending 20 billion $ on fourth generation that to foreign
Is not viable

We are buying f-18

Why not arm twist murica for F-35

With it atleast have supremacy over skies against pla for atleast next 2 decades

America is not selling India F-35, not until they have gen 6th fighters fully operationalized. India is not a treaty ally and there are too many russian linkages and radars to russians that may potentially leak info.

 

[IndianHawk]

Stupidity buy 114 rafale
If this mrfa deals go through

Rather buy F-35

As AMCA will be first operational squadrons
By 2030-2032

Spending 20 billion $ on fourth generation that to foreign
Is not viable

We are buying f-18

Why not arm twist murica for F-35

With it atleast have supremacy over skies against pla for atleast next 2 decades

F35 won't happen for various reasons. It's a networked jet with main servers situated in USA. We are not becoming part of that ever unless we became an American vessel.
Plus Americans know we are neck deep in relation with Russia ( from nuke sub to hypersonic missiles to sfdr and now even lots of oil energy security) so they won't trust f35 info falling to Russian either.

More importantly f35 operating costs are way higher for us to afford in any meaningful numbers.

We can only afford 5th gen in numbers if it's mostly indigenous in both build and operations support otherwise we'd bankrupt ourselves.

IAF is convinced rafale can hold off j20 till AMCA arrives in numbers. And hence rafale it is for now.

Rafale has some unique tricks up its sleeve including active stealth and stealth missiles like scalp which make it very very capable.

 

[WARREN SS]

America is not selling India F-35, not until they have gen 6th fighters fully operationalized. India is not a treaty ally and there are too many russian linkages and radars to russians that may potentially leak info.

That is BS
With correct money murica will sell anything

There 800 f-35 manufactured

Even Japan gone for 105 f-35

Even after having j-xx

 

[WARREN SS]

F35 won't happen for various reasons. It's a networked jet with main servers situated in USA. We are not becoming part of that ever unless we became an American vessel.
Plus Americans know we are neck deep in relation with Russia ( from nuke sub to hypersonic missiles to sfdr and now even lots of oil energy security) so they won't trust f35 info falling to Russian either.

More importantly f35 operating costs are way higher for us to afford in any meaningful numbers.

We can only afford 5th gen in numbers if it's mostly indigenous in both build and operations support otherwise we'd bankrupt ourselves.

IAF is convinced rafale can hold off j20 till AMCA arrives in numbers. And hence rafale it is for now.

Rafale has some unique tricks up its sleeve including active stealth and stealth missiles like scalp which make it very very capable.

all our

F35 won't happen for various reasons. It's a networked jet with main servers situated in USA. We are not becoming part of that ever unless we became an American vessel.
Plus Americans know we are neck deep in relation with Russia ( from nuke sub to hypersonic missiles to sfdr and now even lots of oil energy security) so they won't trust f35 info falling to Russian either.

More importantly f35 operating costs are way higher for us to afford in any meaningful numbers.

We can only afford 5th gen in numbers if it's mostly indigenous in both build and operations support otherwise we'd bankrupt ourselves.

IAF is convinced rafale can hold off j20 till AMCA arrives in numbers. And hence rafale it is for now.

Rafale has some unique tricks up its sleeve including active stealth and stealth missiles like scalp which make it very very capable.

This is exaggeration

And uncessary cold War era thinking for US

If India statergy planners were so
Anti US

They would never had

Opted GE engines
For

LCA programs

We all know all our hopes
Of achieving Indeginious industry

Is pinned on same US controlled engines

We US pulled out the plug

LCA program will go 8-9 years forward

 

[Shuturmurg]

That is BS
With correct money murica will sell anything

There 800 f-35 manufactured

Even Japan gone for 105 f-35

Even after having j-xx

Yes, US with defence budget of 835 billion USD is starving for money.
US is not going to sell India F-35 untill India bends the knee and becomes US vassal. Us doesn't give its latest tech to just "friendly" nations. It only gives them to its vassals.

 

[WARREN SS]

Yes, US with defence budget of 835 billion USD is starving for money.
US is not going to sell India F-35 untill India bends the knee and becomes US vassal. Us doesn't give its latest tech to just "friendly" nations. It only gives them to its vassals.

That is not how US firms operate

They operate on profits like any capitalist nation
They lobby for that in US congress and Senate

Boeing lobby pulled the card for India in US house of representatives

If India can acheive CAATSA relaxation
In time for entire West against Russia scenario

Then it can achieve anything from US

 

[Shuturmurg]

That is not how US firms operate

They operate on profits like any capitalist nation
They lobby for that in US congress and Senate

Boeing lobby pulled the card for India in US house of representatives

If India can acheive CAATSA relaxation
In time for entire West against Russia scenario

Then it can achieve anything from US

No, there is a reason they were never offered to india in mrfa. You think if tomorrow China pays enough money US will sell them f-35 ?

 

[WARREN SS]

No, there is a reason they were never offered to india in mrfa. You think if tomorrow China pays enough money US will sell them f-35 ?

China is not Quad country
Neither have alliance with usa like India has

Statergic logistics treaties with
India
On intelligence sharing.

Neither
China operates any US weapons

Like India do

 

[pipebomb]

Here is the clarification. 6 sq of lca mk2 are confirmed.

He probably will retire next year, how long can he obstruct mkii order. But he has secured his place along side air Marshal (retd) v.k Bhatia in the eyes of deshbhakts

 

[Dark Sorrow]

No, there is a reason they were never offered to india in mrfa. You think if tomorrow China pays enough money US will sell them f-35 ?

US won't sell F-35 to PRC but their companies or people related to the project might sell the technology for right price.
PRC couldn't launch espionage against F-35 related project without inside help.

The reason US didn't offer F-35 to MRFA is primarily cost and the level of trust and bilateral agreements didn't exist when jets were originally offered.

 

[vishnugupt]

Mrfa is not For tot its For immediate national security

Mwf and amca still atleast 10-12 years away from being adequate numbers

U think PLAAF

Will wait for IAF to again strengthen till than

After Ukraine and Russian war

I Don't rule out anything until 2030

Do you believe you are gonna get MRFA tomorrow?? Or before 2028/29??

Btw... ACM clearly mentioned 100% ToT with 100% make in India route several times.

2 years for RFI + 1 year trials + 1 year evaluation and opening bids + 2 years negotiation + 3 years to start delivery = 9 years means 2031 means AMCA and MWF both will be available.

 

[Srinie]

It takes three years from the date of contract signing to get first delivery good luck with having a new single mrfa squadron before 2027

 

[Chinmoy]

So these 6 squadrons are for fleet and capability enhancer
I don't think 6 squadrons will be enough to replace jags, mig-29s, mirages
For those replacement additional 10+ squadrons required

Jaguars are for attack role.
Mig-29 is for air superiority role
Mirage is for Multirole.

So basically 6 sqdn (120) of Mk2 means we are doubling our Mirage capability here till 2040, which is the timeline by which Mk2 delivery would be completed (!). So basically Mk2 would be flying in conjunction with Mirage and 29's till 2040. So 6 sqdn as initial order is just right for them.

 

[WARREN SS]

It takes three years from the date of contract signing to get first delivery good luck with having a new single mrfa squadron before 2027

That depends what aircraft signed

If Rafale signed aircraft will be delivered
Delivered.
By 2024 to 2025

As we don't need logistics
And training logistics
before flying that jets

If F-35 it will take 3-4 years to get first lot
But
Considering USA production capacity
That will deliver all aircraft
By 2030

That means 114 fifth generation aircraft
By 2030
While for AMCA it will be possible by 2040 or 2042

I Still prefer getting F-35
If we ever go for
MRFA

Because it is to stupid to 20 billion + $ on
4 th generation

When we Have 5th generation available in market

That gives us Undisputed Edge over PLAAF for next 2 decades