ADA Tejas Mark-II/Medium Weight Fighter

Spitfire9

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Production rate is always a function of number of orders. For a mere 40 mk1 order, HAL cannot deliver 36 in one year and 4 in next month, shut the line and ask the skilled workforce to go home and come back after Mk1a or MK2 order is placed. They will stretch it till further orders are placed and work on next type begins. Given the 83 mk1a, they will not deliver 40 per year and shut line after 2 years and go tripping till additional orders of mk1a or mk2 is placed. They have a fair idea of timelines as to when will future orders will come. They will stretch it too. HAL doesn't need the help of Swedish farts for 'aircraft-production 101.'
So HAL has mastered the art of aircraft production and has nothing to learn from anyone else?
 

Covfefe

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So HAL has mastered the art of aircraft production and has nothing to learn from anyone else?
Pretty leading and loaded question. There's always a scope for learning and that's applicable to everyone. But HAL's challenge hasn't exactly been production- it's rate and methodology. There have been issues with their design philosophies and manufacturing standards that they follow- like the instance of lack of interchangeability of spares denotes gross violation of geometric dimensions and tolerance followed during manufacturing- but that's something they can develop mostly on their own. Saab or any other partner won't come with readymade solutions for the areas ailing HAL's production. Also, as and when their volumes are going up they're outsourcing the Sub assemblies to vendors unlike the prototyping phase where they had to manufacture a lot of things on their own. With private partners taking more and more components and sub assembly manufacturing, they will iron out these issues. Saab definitely has a lot to offer, manufacturing and production expertise is a non entity for even consideration for the deal though.
 

Spitfire9

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India is producing 8 lca + 12 su30mki per year. That's 20 for a year. How many is saab producing per year ??

If less then 20 then answer why saab is so stupid backward organization. Why can't sweeden find good managers?? Why can't they manage high production rates??

France is producing Rafale since 1986. Till date only 237 Rafale are produced. That means only 6 per year. So I guess france is useless in managing fighter jet production?? Perhaps they should let HAL do it atleast they will get to 20 per year .lol.
It is not a question of how many aircraft you produce. It is about producing the number planned in the time planned at the quality planned at the cost planned. And when you talk of Dassault, I think they had a production capacity of perhaps 20 Rafale a year but when the French government wanted to defer deliveries they managed to reduce production to 11 a year and still build Rafale profitably.
 

WARREN SS

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So HAL has mastered the art of aircraft production and has nothing to learn from anyone else?
There always scope lethargy and delays from DPSU'S

Not gone a trust until it's fully corporatized

There scope R&D is very compared to
Global forms like Airbus ,Boeing
LM
 

ManhattanProject

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They’ll anyway have to buy them because Rafales are no longer an option as UAE and Egypt have ordered more than a 100 of them hence deliveries will take much longer and production won’t come to India as well. Brilliancy at its peak from MoD and IAF, masterstroke pe masterstroke.
They dont care, they will sacrifice national security for their imports.
 

rohit b3

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What MRFA? Even ASQR arent fixed. they say it will be done by 2022. Then RFI...RFP...Trials...Shortlisting...Negotiations....Production...its a long story.
Nothing will be clear before 2030 at this rate.
MWF should enter into production by then. But yes, these Dalaals will try and postpone that by adding requirements on the MWF.
 

Spitfire9

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What MRFA? Even ASQR arent fixed. they say it will be done by 2022. Then RFI...RFP...Trials...Shortlisting...Negotiations....Production...its a long story.
Nothing will be clear before 2030 at this rate.
MWF should enter into production by then. But yes, these Dalaals will try and postpone that by adding requirements on the MWF.
The mind boggles at the power of vested interests in India. It seems that 'Team India' does not exist. Too many of the wrong people at all levels and nothing is done to change things. Heck, I'm more of an Indian nationalist than people in positions of influence in India - at least I argue for things I see as being in India's interest!
 

IndianHawk

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It is not a question of how many aircraft you produce. It is about producing the number planned in the time planned at the quality planned at the cost planned. And when you talk of Dassault, I think they had a production capacity of perhaps 20 Rafale a year but when the French government wanted to defer deliveries they managed to reduce production to 11 a year and still build Rafale profitably.
HAL also produced all the su30mki at required rate in required time. Delays of lca are because of ADA and IAF which keep changing specs. Once specs were frozen and IOC/ FOC declared HAL has done it's job perfectly . Some delay due to COVID happened everywhere in the world.
 

IndianHawk

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What MRFA? Even ASQR arent fixed. they say it will be done by 2022. Then RFI...RFP...Trials...Shortlisting...Negotiations....Production...its a long story.
Nothing will be clear before 2030 at this rate.
MWF should enter into production by then. But yes, these Dalaals will try and postpone that by adding requirements on the MWF.
Shows you how uninterested GOI in MRFA at this point. It's deliberately slowing things and yet idiots keep talking about MWF cancellation. Lol.
 

FalconZero

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View attachment 123297
I am not sure about the timeline given here but even if it is half correct then this not only strengthens the case for MWF but also Rafales, if IAF is so scorched for 'good' fighter and wants them asap then the most viable and quickest option is to shill for Rafales, that means additional follow on order most likely for rafales to reduce/remove the time delays involved in negotiations, discussions so on.

Also, makes sense that we have already invested a lot in Rafales, maybe in batches we will ordering them slowly as our economy grows so maybe like additional 36 follow on + some other batches by the end of decade.
 

Aditya Ballal

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HAL needs major orders and advanced money to add more machines more suppliers. How do you think saab and Dassault grew??? Strive them of orders and see them deteriorate much faster then HAL.
Case in point ALH Dhruv, where even AAC and IAF can’t keep up with the production rate of HAL due to their own infra and personnel issues, due to the much improved and stable production rate of the Dhruv by HAL and the birds just sit around in Bangalore until the respective forces are capable of absorbing them.
Essentially give sufficient orders and only then you can expect them to deliver.
 

Brood Father

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View attachment 123297
Lol..I thought UNAF Gernails are only dalals ..but they are also stupid ..I mean with this timelines if they go to MOD , MOD will laugh at them
I mean inducting 1st 4+ gen aircraft at 2030 ? Wtf they are smoking ??
 

vishnugupt

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Lol..I thought UNAF Gernails are only dalals ..but they are also stupid ..I mean with this timelines if they go to MOD , MOD will laugh at them
I mean inducting 1st 4+ gen aircraft at 2030 ? Wtf they are smoking ??
That too the 5th and 6th generation technologies into a 4th generation aircraft. I have tired of thinking which aircraft would going to fulfill these requirements?

The level of stupidity we ordinary people can only imagine whereas UN armed forces are literally pursuing them. :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
 

lcafanboy

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Lol..I thought UNAF Gernails are only dalals ..but they are also stupid ..I mean with this timelines if they go to MOD , MOD will laugh at them
I mean inducting 1st 4+ gen aircraft at 2030 ? Wtf they are smoking ??
4+++ generation fighter planes like Rafale, Gripen E, and MWF aka LCA mk2, will remain relevant till 2070. That's good 30-40yrs of service. The only country having a true 5th generation fighter till now is US. Others are still struggling with it and will only start deploying them post 2030. Also 5th generation fighter planes are extremely expensive and High maintenance and cost a bomb to fly per hour. 6th generation fighter will be even more expensive and High maintenance and will come only after 2050 and that too in few numbers, eg F22, B2. So bulk of the major Air forces around the world will still be using 4+++ generation fighter planes which will have 5th generation avionics and capabilities.
You won't like to use an expensive 6th generation fighter to bomb bearded muzzi terrorists, pakroaches which will cost you millions in just flying hours. Even the Inexpensive MWF will be too much for pakroaches too handle in 2070..😊
 

Javelin_Sam

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Lol..I thought UNAF Gernails are only dalals ..but they are also stupid ..I mean with this timelines if they go to MOD , MOD will laugh at them
I mean inducting 1st 4+ gen aircraft at 2030 ? Wtf they are smoking ??
By that logic the entire MWF project must be shut down.
 

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