ADA Tejas Mark-II/Medium Weight Fighter

[Aditya Ballal]

 

[abingdonboy]

2-3 years is far too optimistic. Even for a western company with great skill and experience.
4-5 years is more realistic. And HAL is not known to be always on time...

Indeed and that’s why the timeline is first flight in early/mid 2023, induction from 2028-9

feasible

Also HAL isn’t the development agency for the MK.2

 

[Neeraj Mathur]

Why jaguar, do have any official/unofficial info on this.

nothing official.
space for the retractable probe is less thats why ppl feel it will be something similar to jaguar.

 

[Spitfire9]

So Uttam AESA Mk2 cost for Tejas Mk2 is about $2 million.

How does that compare with the Elta AESA for Mk1A?

 

[FalconZero]

So if i understood clearly these are initially prototypes, 1 from BEL and 1 from the Astra Microwave. After that will there be any more evaluations of the product and then either one of them will be selected for future productions?

Will the cost decrease during serial production?

 

[FalconZero]

Early next year ?

Assuming all of them will feature the new UTTAM Aesa radar, probably the ones being made by BEL and Astra does that mean it can't be before April,2022?
Can one rollout an aircraft without its radars ?

 

[Aditya Ballal]

So if i understood clearly these are initially prototypes, 1 from BEL and 1 from the Astra Microwave. After that will there be any more evaluations of the product and then either one of them will be selected for future productions?

Will the cost decrease during serial production?

There will definitely be an analysis regarding performance of the respective prototypes and cost to finally decide who gets the production order.
Price will reduce in serial production because of economies of scale and stabilisation of production.

 

[Covfefe]

Isn't Uttam Mk2 supposed to be integrated on the Tejas Mk1A (other than the initial 20 units being Integrated with ELM2052)?
This Uttam Mk2 for MWF/TejasMk2 is a scaled up version of the same radar? Because Dr Kota had said in the Tarmak show that the Uttam Radar had already completed some 75-80 hours of flight test on Tejas, so I'm assuming it must be Uttam Mk2 (Mk1 was supposed to be a TD)

 

[Aditya Ballal]

 

[Blank]

Isn't Uttam Mk2 supposed to be integrated on the Tejas Mk1A (other than the initial 20 units being Integrated with ELM2052)?
This Uttam Mk2 for MWF/TejasMk2 is a scaled up version of the same radar? Because Dr Kota had said in the Tarmak show that the Uttam Radar had already completed some 75-80 hours of flight test on Tejas, so I'm assuming it must be Uttam Mk2 (Mk1 was supposed to be a TD)

I think....
Uttam MK1 - Tejas MK1A
Uttam MK2 - Tejas MK2
Uttam MK3 - Su-30MKI Upgrade
Next-generation GaN-based AESAR - AMCA

 

[Okabe Rintarou]

Can one rollout an aircraft without its radars ?

Why not? If its in the prototype phase, we can roll out the plane without the radar. Not sure but I think Mk1 PV also didn't have radars initially.

 

[FalconZero]

Why not? If its in the prototype phase, we can roll out the plane without the radar.

But the purpose of rollout is to state that you have achieved all the basic milestone, that your components are in place, and then you go for extensive testing of the aircraft, its components and get it to flyout within a year.

Not sure but I think Mk1 PV also didn't have radars initially.

Oookay got it.

 

[Okabe Rintarou]

But the purpose of rollout is to state that you have achieved all the basic milestone, that your components are in place, and then you go for extensive testing of the aircraft, its components and get it to flyout within a year.

The focus in Mk2 would be on first testing the airframe and CLAW modifications. If the radar is a bit delayed, it can be integrated one year later without much problems I think.

 

[THESIS THORON]

I think....
Uttam MK1 - Tejas MK1A
Uttam MK2 - Tejas MK2
Uttam MK3 - Su-30MKI Upgrade
Next-generation GaN-based AESAR - AMCA

regarding su 30 radar.

i think su 30 radar will be of gan mk1 trms, and amca will have gan mk2.
the work for su 30 radar has not been started yet, so imo it will take 2 yrs to start and 2-3 yrs to make it.
so total will be 5 yrs.

in 5yrs imo gan trms will be matured ??

so su 30 uttam will be ready by 2026-7

 

[MonaLazy]

Isn't Uttam Mk2 supposed to be integrated on the Tejas Mk1A

I think so too. Uttam Mk2 for Tejas Mk1A- as confirmed by hvt but his account's been deleted so can't locate that tweet.

But remember this discussion from that time:

ADA Tejas Mark-II/Medium Weight Fighter

It will match Gripen C/D in payload. It will be near Gripen in range but it will not be able to supercruise because of aerodynamic issues and inlet design issues. Both are planned to be addressed in Mk1A to a large extent. I am looking forward to a weight reduction of atleast 500 kg in Mk1A. Is...

defenceforumindia.com

 

[HariPrasad-1]

View attachment 115656

Not the first time we are seeing it, and I suspect (this is just a guess and could possibly be proven as really stupid) it may also have to do something with rear visibility when the canard pitches.

Old cockpit was one of the area causing higher drag in Tejas mk1. Its redecign was planned to reduce the drag and improve transdonic accelleration. Its redesign will improve STR as eell.

 

[Bleh]

 

[HariPrasad-1]

It is going to an aircraft with low RCS but I would hzve liked it to be a stealthier one.

 

[Okabe Rintarou]

It is going to an aircraft with low RCS but I would hzve liked it to be a stealthier one.

Nah. Its far better that they aren't souping this up by forcibly trying to make it low RCS. Its far better to complete these projects within the set timeline without any delays. That will allow us to overcome the psychological barrier of previous generation projects like Tejas, Arjun, etc. That punctures the foreign arms industry propaganda that Indian weapons projects are slow. I am very happy with the speed of these new projects: LUH, Tejas Mk2, Uttam Mk2, etc being on time. Now watch as the propaganda shifts to "India still making 4th gen planes in 2020s and 2030s".

From a tactical standpoint, low RCS won't offer us a lot of advantages. Stealth is a game of either going all in or simply abandoning it altogether. Its better to have drones and fighters like AMCA that focus entirely on microwave and IIR stealth while also having a 4th Gen fleet that is purely focused on minimizing turn-around time and maintenance costs while maximimizing aerodynamic performance, range, sensors and payload without being dragged down by stealth shaping and materials.

 

[HariPrasad-1]

Nah. Its far better that they aren't souping this up by forcibly trying to make it low RCS. Its far better to complete these projects within the set timeline without any delays. That will allow us to overcome the psychological barrier of previous generation projects like Tejas, Arjun, etc. That punctures the foreign arms industry propaganda that Indian weapons projects are slow. I am very happy with the speed of these new projects: LUH, Tejas Mk2, Uttam Mk2, etc being on time. Now watch as the propaganda shifts to "India still making 4th gen planes in 2020s and 2030s".

From a tactical standpoint, low RCS won't offer us a lot of advantages. Stealth is a game of either going all in or simply abandoning it altogether. Its better to have drones and fighters like AMCA that focus entirely on microwave and IIR stealth while also having a 4th Gen fleet that is purely focused on minimizing turn-around time and maintenance costs while maximimizing aerodynamic performance, range, sensors and payload without being dragged down by stealth shaping and materials.

Thais true but it is my reasonable wish list. Had they designed Mk2 with atleast frontal stealth in mind, Mk2 would have been at least frontal stealth. Anyway, Mk2 is going to be a very good state of art aircraft with Uttam mk2 radar or even GAN based Uttam. If we can bring in forced intrusion capability like Rafal with state of art EW, we can make is highly useful like Rafal which can perform many roles.