ADA Tejas Mark-II/Medium Weight Fighter

[Covfefe]

What if contract is signed in 2024?

No way in hell IAF agrees so easily within a year. This platform will be a serious capability dependence for them, we must expect iterations, improvement, redevelopment. HAL has committed for the first flight in 2023, even if the development trials are merged with user trials don't expect the iterations to be finished and a refined product to be presented within the same year.

The best-case scenario looks like- IAF will wait for Rafale F4 to fly and then keep the paperwork ready to place 2-3 squadron worth order. Tejas Mk2 realistically looks coming only after 2026-27.

 

[arnab]

No way in hell IAF agrees so easily within a year. This platform will be a serious capability dependence for them, we must expect iterations, improvement, redevelopment. HAL has committed for the first flight in 2023, even if the development trials are merged with user trials don't expect the iterations to be finished and a refined product to be presented within the same year.

The best-case scenario looks like- IAF will wait for Rafale F4 to fly and then keep the paperwork ready to place 2-3 squadron worth order. Tejas Mk2 realistically looks coming only after 2026-27.

accepting the premise i wud say that IAF agreed to 40 Tejas long before Tejas mk1 got her IOC...! so i t all depends on how close they are to acquiring more rafales etc...if they see delay in that and a good confodence inprogress of AMCA...theymight just want to fill the order book with mk2 as well..since they will have to spend the money anyway

 

[Spitfire9]

HAL said that Aircraft will be ready-for-production by 2026... But actual Contract will need to be signed, which is not in HAL hands...

Anyways, Aircraft parts won't be on the assembly line for whole 3 years... Assembly of a jet will take only a few months...
So, if Tejas Mk2 Contract is signed in late 2026, the parts will be on the assembly line only by early 2029... After Contract is signed, they will start the process for procurement of long-lead items... Arrival of some items will itself take 1-2 years...

So, assuming last Mk1A jet rolls out by early 2029, it is possible for first Tejas Mk2 to roll out by early 2030...

What baffles me is the thinking that increasing production capacity is a no no in case that capacity is left idle in the future.

Even if it cost $500 million dollars to build and equip a 20 a year assembly line for Mk2 that was used for 10 years then bulldozed, I hazard it would be much cheaper building and operating 200 Mk2 for 30 years than buying and operating 200 foreign MWF for 30 years.

And why are fast jets being developed and produced in India? It's not a flag waving exercise to boost Indian national prestige. It is to equip IAF with materiel.

There is a large captive market for fighter aircraft. GOI wants India to become an international force in the fighter business. Yet India will not take steps to service internal demand, let alone provide the capacity to export!

 

[LakshmanPST7]

What if contract is signed in 2024?

I don't think Contract signing will happen before 2026...
For contract to be signed in 2024, they need to build a 3rd assembly line for Tejas Mk2... Existing lines won't be available...
Anyways, let's see...

 

[LakshmanPST7]

Nashik will be free by then of SU-30MKI order, if I’m not wrong they were capable of building/assembling them at a rate of 12 per year, considering the size of the huge SU-30MKI, more MWF airframes can be fit inside, so perhaps with a few modifications it can get close to 20 a year, with a large enough order.

I guess Nashik Line will be utilized for Super Sukhoi upgrade...
And in 2030, HAL will have HTT-40 and TEDBF in production as well...
Anyways, nothing is final for now... Let's see...

 

[Blank]

 

[pipebomb]

Lca mk2 can be put into production with only completing ioc testing & foc can be carry out later with software upgrades. I believe HAL can complete ioc testing within 2-3 years of 1st flight of prototype (given following prototypes don't face any delays).

 

[BON PLAN]

Lca mk2 can be put into production with only completing ioc testing & foc can be carry out later with software upgrades. I believe HAL can complete ioc testing within 2-3 years of 1st flight of prototype (given following prototypes don't face any delays).

2-3 years is far too optimistic. Even for a western company with great skill and experience.
4-5 years is more realistic. And HAL is not known to be always on time...

 

[pipebomb]

2-3 years is far too optimistic. Even for a western company with great skill and experience.
4-5 years is more realistic. And HAL is not known to be always on time...

Thanks for replying, i know its a bit optimistic but we have realise that mk2 is quite similar to mk1a with added canards and a body plug for increased length. Radar, internal ew suite, new refueling probe & other new subsystems can be tested out during foc.

 

[BON PLAN]

Thanks for replying, i know its a bit optimistic but we have realise that mk2 is quite similar to mk1a with added canards and a body plug for increased length. Radar, internal ew suite, new refueling probe & other new subsystems can be tested out during foc.

See the SH18 experience : it was seen as a "simple" evolution of legacy F18, but it was not.
The result was less potent than intended, and take more time also.

 

[no smoking]

Thanks for replying, i know its a bit optimistic but we have realise that mk2 is quite similar to mk1a with added canards and a body plug for increased length. Radar, internal ew suite, new refueling probe & other new subsystems can be tested out during foc.

That alone is a big change: from aerodynamic, structure to fly control.

 

[pipebomb]

That alone is a big change: from aerodynamic, structure to fly control.

But same wing not like tedbf which has a completely new wing

 

[Lonewolf]

But same wing not like tedbf which has a completely new wing

Wins are quite different in shape, not totally but some changes are there

 

[pipebomb]

Wins are quite different in shape, not totally but some changes are there

Except wing tip missile rail rest of the wing look similar to me maybe when the first prototype rolled out we may see some changes. But my main point was ioc testing can be expedited enough for smooth transition from mk1a to mk2 without any production gap maybe even sooner if IAF & MOD wants.

 

[SavageKing456]

Tejas mk2 will quickly enter into production phase from prototype development phase

 

[Spitfire9]

Tejas mk2 will quickly enter into production phase from prototype development phase

Am I right in thinking there will be 4 prototypes? If they are built as a batch, testing should be accelerated, shouldn't it? I think that Mk1 prototypes were produced in sequence over several years.

 

[Javelin_Sam]

Elongated fuselage, more strengthy structure for increased payload capacity, canards, new flight dynamics,new control laws, all need to be flown extensively. If first flight of prototype happens by 2024, my best bet analysis is that IOC by 2030 and series production can start somewhere around 2030-2032

 

[SavageKing456]

Am I right in thinking there will be 4 prototypes? If they are built as a batch, testing should be accelerated, shouldn't it?

Total of four prototype aircrafts are planned for the flight test program. However, these 4 aircrafts will be production standard aircraft

 

[Vamsi]

Am I right in thinking there will be 4 prototypes? If they are built as a batch, testing should be accelerated, shouldn't it? I think that Mk1 prototypes were produced in sequence over several years.

Total 4 prototypes , all 4 are production standard LSPs. initial 2 are IOC standard and last 2 are FOC standard.

 

[pipebomb]

Elongated fuselage, more strengthy structure for increased payload capacity, canards, new flight dynamics,new control laws, all need to be flown extensively. If first flight of prototype happens by 2024, my best bet analysis is that IOC by 2030 and series production can start somewhere around 2030-2032

Not new from the scratch but modified, lca timelines doesn't hold for mk2