ADA Tejas Mark-II/Medium Weight Fighter

[onlinpunit]

LRDE assembled 3 units, 1 of which was trialed on a business jet, and the other two are continuing flight trials on Tejas LSPs. Those were not production standard units, rather they were prototypes to test the functionality, software, the algorithms, etc.

This new tender seems to be for a production run of quite a few units that will be used on the 50-60 of the Tejas Mk1As.

Ok..So it has not reached production stage as of now. Thanks for the info.

 

[abingdonboy]

I have seen it all. But conventional wisdom says that version MK2 can come only after MK1.
So where exactly is Uttam MK1 ?
Is it in use in any form on any jet ?

It's really not the surprising, it's happened quite a few times with DRDO efforts- they have moved onto the mark 2 with the initial effort never actually getting into production but lessons carrying forward.

After TEDBF should we assume the Air Force
will then too go with a two engine configuration and have their own version and if so, what would the AESA T R M module numbers rise up to and what will be too much for GaN based AESA in module numbers as we reach the peak of flight and engine?

IAF is acting like a spoilt child, insisting on MMRCA 2.0 because all they know how to do is send out RFIs instead of supporting local solutions. They've had a bone about MMRCA since MRCA days 20+ years go, it's what all their staff officers have grown up hearing about- "(M)MRCA is going to solve all out problems" so one generation of officers just carries this mentality on to the next.


Some political leadership needs to be shown and smack the IAF's senior leadership into sense, they (IAF) are obsessed with Rafale but look at the TEDBF's specs.


Order another 36-54 Rafales and then commit to a minimum of 4 squadrons of ORCA, it's the obvious solution to hedge against development delays and also optimise the Rafale investment.

Yes they couldn't afford European avionics and had to compromise on shitty chinese junk. But even chinese are capable of giving liquid cooled aesa and yet jf17 can only manage air cooled one . That's solely due to lack of power available.

IIRC they had lined the French up (Thales) to deliver quite a few upgrades for the JF-17 but were left high and dry when the French left them out in the cold, maybe @BON PLAN knows more about this

 

[JBH22]

Very big RCS, Not very advance EW, Missiles are bellow par with west, radar is not AESA, high fuel consumption, more maintdnence etc.

F16 and F15 are also outdated but their elcctronics are at par with best.

That is very generic statement.
So let us address the below points, for comparison we shall benchmark F-15E Vs Su 30 mki.
A random Google search shows RCS of both planes range between 1.5-3.5. Radar edge is for F 15e, the Su30 mki in that may be 80% of capability.
Fuel guzzling it's not Maruti 800, with regards to maintenance I think after 20years of service they know how to maintain it.

 

[HariPrasad-1]

That is very generic statement.
So let us address the below points, for comparison we shall benchmark F-15E Vs Su 30 mki.
A random Google search shows RCS of both planes range between 1.5-3.5. Radar edge is for F 15e, the Su30 mki in that may be 80% of capability.
Fuel guzzling it's not Maruti 800, with regards to maintenance I think after 20years of service they know how to maintain it.

Why do you unnecessarily try to put word in my mouth. Have I ssid that F15 are better? Or have I done any comparison? I said that b oth are outdated but US planes have contemporary electronics. So read the comments first. Also look at fuel consumption and operating cost per hour for Sukhoi. Modern planes hzve much better figures.

 

[JBH22]

Why do you unnecessarily try to put word in my mouth. Have I ssid that F15 are better? Or have I done any comparison? I said that b oth are outdated but US planes have contemporary electronics. So read the comments first. Also look at fuel consumption and operating cost per hour for Sukhoi. Modern planes hzve much better figures.

No you said any plane is better than Sukhoi. So given the closest analogue in west yo Su30mki is the F15E, hence the comparison.
Blanket statement that Russian weapon is outdated without proper supporting evidence is irrelevant.
Most importantly the cost/performance is a critical factor. For the price of Su30Mki if you are getting say 60% or even 80% of western equi capability it is a good deal.

 

[HariPrasad-1]

No you said any plane is better than Sukhoi. So given the closest analogue in west yo Su30mki is the F15E, hence the comparison.
Blanket statement that Russian weapon is outdated without proper supporting evidence is irrelevant.
Most importantly the cost/performance is a critical factor. For the price of Su30Mki if you are getting say 60% or even 80% of western equi capability it is a good deal.

Oh is it? Please quote where did I say that?

 

[Lonewolf]

After all unnecessary discussion on this thread let's continue .


And one question of mine , that I would like to be answered is can we reduce maintenance cost of Sukhoi by actually reducing some moving parts and all

 

[JBH22]

Oh is it? Please quote where did I say that?

I think this answer

 

[Aniruddha Mulay]

No they can't afford it , earlier model didn't had irst and all but now maintenance coat gonna go much higher and they aren't ready for it , all thier sam units are turning obsolete ,so they want some new toys

There were reports of Porks buying HQ-9 which is basically a reverse engineered S-300PMU-2 with an AESA radar, what happened to that deal?

 

[Aniruddha Mulay]

It's really not the surprising, it's happened quite a few times with DRDO efforts- they have moved onto the mark 2 with the initial effort never actually getting into production but lessons carrying forward.





IAF is acting like a spoilt child, insisting on MMRCA 2.0 because all they know how to do is send out RFIs instead of supporting local solutions. They've had a bone about MMRCA since MRCA days 20+ years go, it's what all their staff officers have grown up hearing about- "(M)MRCA is going to solve all out problems" so one generation of officers just carries this mentality on to the next.


Some political leadership needs to be shown and smack the IAF's senior leadership into sense, they (IAF) are obsessed with Rafale but look at the TEDBF's specs.


Order another 36-54 Rafales and then commit to a minimum of 4 squadrons of ORCA, it's the obvious solution to hedge against development delays and also optimise the Rafale investment.




IIRC they had lined the French up (Thales) to deliver quite a few upgrades for the JF-17 but were left high and dry when the French left them out in the cold, maybe @BON PLAN knows more about this

Operating 150 Rafales an expensive affair and 20-30 years down the line when the F3R/F4 standard jet gets outdated and is due for an upgrade, India will have to shell out another $10-12 billion to upgrade these jets.
India paid $52 million per jet to upgrade the Mirages for what was basically a software and avionics upgrade.
$52 million is enough to acquire a brand new Tejas Mk1A and all its associated weaponry.

 

[Lonewolf]

There were reports of Porks buying HQ-9 which is basically a reverse engineered S-300PMU-2 with an AESA radar, what happened to that deal?

That isn't basically s 300 , it's a cluster fuck , compromising lot of different missile , it's good but porks can't maintain it in good number , also they may be denied the long range variant , deal is yet to fuit some results

 

[HariPrasad-1]

Very big RCS, Not very advance EW, Missiles are bellow par with west, radar is not AESA, high fuel consumption, more maintdnence etc.

F16 and F15 are also outdated but their elcctronics are at par with best.

@ZBH22
When I have specifically stated that F16 and F15 are outdated, why are you concluding that I have said that F15 and F16 better? Your problem is that you don't read while responding the post. Good medium weight fighter is Rafale, Gripen Ng etc. Read above post of mine and stop putting words in mouth and make suitable judgements.

In an another post, you said that I am biased when I said that Su30 are outdated. . Do you know that Indian airforce has a massive Super sukhoi upgradation programe which is more costlier than original acquisition price of Su 30 MKIs. Now, if they are contemporary as you said, why such big amount is spent on upgradation?

 

[Ar.gaurav28]

No you said any plane is better than Sukhoi. So given the closest analogue in west yo Su30mki is the F15E, hence the comparison.
Blanket statement that Russian weapon is outdated without proper supporting evidence is irrelevant.
Most importantly the cost/performance is a critical factor. For the price of Su30Mki if you are getting say 60% or even 80% of western equi capability it is a good deal.

*they have retired old f15 & soon f15e as well coz the age of airframe aswell as they have very large rcs not suitable in today’s or upcoming World Scenario!
*Russian or we should say USSR‘s weapons were great as for R&D they used to spend like lot alot...Russian economy not doing so well they had to merge many defence companies just to keep them running on the limited funds available!
till 1990 or early 2000 they were still good but after 20-30 years I don’t think so!
they couldn’t even develop the engine for su57 which was one of the biggest reason of Indian government backing out from it!
*IAF itself stated that the platforms might be cheap but the poor availability & higher maintenance costs makes it even! Why go for even a 60-80% equivalent!

Think if India would have bought su35 or even su57 would China be rattled the same way he is with the purchase of Rafale..??

 

[SARTHAK]

*they have retired old f15 & soon f15e as well coz the age of airframe aswell as they have very large rcs not suitable in today’s or upcoming World Scenario!
*Russian or we should say USSR‘s weapons were great as for R&D they used to spend like lot alot...Russian economy not doing so well they had to merge many defence companies just to keep them running on the limited funds available!
till 1990 or early 2000 they were still good but after 20-30 years I don’t think so!
they couldn’t even develop the engine for su57 which was one of the biggest reason of Indian government backing out from it!
*IAF itself stated that the platforms might be cheap but the poor availability & higher maintenance costs makes it even! Why go for even a 60-80% equivalent!

Think if India would have bought su35 or even su57 would China be rattled the same way he is with the purchase of Rafale..??

su57 is capable platform, i know there is a lot of american propoganda about it being not capable but still(i know russians do the same for f35)

 

[Bleh]

Pilot yet to be size-adjusted...

 

[MirageBlue]

Pilot yet to be size-adjusted... View attachment 90194

The pilot seems a little smaller than he should be for the Mk2..but overall the Mk2's front fuselage here, looks very close to what I'd expect to see. Super work!

Praying that HAL doesn't ruin it for me with their dated two tone scheme when it's rolled out.

the current two tone on the Mk1 reminds me of the SAAF Buccaneer scheme..retro as can be.

 

[HariPrasad-1]

su57 is capable platform, i know there is a lot of american propoganda about it being not capable but still(i know russians do the same for f35)

Su 57 is grand pa of agility. It can climb up to the height of Mount Everest in less than 20 Second with climb rate of 350 meter a second. However, as it happens with most of Russian Weapons, it can not match the electronics of west. Its panned powerful engine is also not coming. Russian planes are built on outdated philosophy such as dog fight etc but does not focus on electronics and weapon package like west. Su57 with west electronics, Indian HUD and software can be a lethal combo which India has planned to do in FAGFA. However, it did not happen because of some reasons.

 

[HariPrasad-1]

Pilot yet to be size-adjusted... View attachment 90194

Look at cockpit design. Look how much aerodynamic refinement has gone into it.

 

[Tang]

Very big RCS, Not very advance EW, Missiles are bellow par with west, radar is not AESA, high fuel consumption, more maintdnence etc.

F16 and F15 are also outdated but their elcctronics are at par with best.

It's BARS radar is even better than some new aesa radars

 

[Starlight]

It's really not the surprising, it's happened quite a few times with DRDO efforts- they have moved onto the mark 2 with the initial effort never actually getting into production but lessons carrying forward.





IAF is acting like a spoilt child, insisting on MMRCA 2.0 because all they know how to do is send out RFIs instead of supporting local solutions. They've had a bone about MMRCA since MRCA days 20+ years go, it's what all their staff officers have grown up hearing about- "(M)MRCA is going to solve all out problems" so one generation of officers just carries this mentality on to the next.


Some political leadership needs to be shown and smack the IAF's senior leadership into sense, they (IAF) are obsessed with Rafale but look at the TEDBF's specs.


Order another 36-54 Rafales and then commit to a minimum of 4 squadrons of ORCA, it's the obvious solution to hedge against development delays and also optimise the Rafale investment.




IIRC they had lined the French up (Thales) to deliver quite a few upgrades for the JF-17 but were left high and dry when the French left them out in the cold, maybe @BON PLAN knows more about this

Hey we have an independent aircraft manufacturing ability. No need for your sad support; in that, no need for offshore low cost but 'big bang for the buck' services so we are doing fine. I hope you do meet some of my fellow officers and tell them about your 20 year behind the keyboard sentences and RFIs you've recieved in your vast experience for the government.Thank you for the disconcerting view point though.