ADA Tejas Mark-II/Medium Weight Fighter

[vishnugupt]

Yes. I'm french. And I honnestly think Rafale is one of the best fighter of the day.

You are just selling your ignorance as a logic.
If we apply same logic, every Pakistanis honestly thinks jf-17 is a inter Galactic 20th generation fighter.
Eurofighter Typhoon is worse jet in the world because there is no British-German-Italian-Spainish citizenship holders.

 

[ArgonPrime]

Yes. I'm french. And I honnestly think Rafale is one of the best fighter of the day.

Indeed but too pricy, including the weapons package.

 

[BON PLAN]

You are just selling your ignorance as a logic.
If we apply same logic, every Pakistanis honestly thinks jf-17 is a inter Galactic 20th generation fighter.
Eurofighter Typhoon is worse jet in the world because there is no British-German-Italian-Spainish citizenship holders.

Forget me Noob ! Stay with the eyes closed and the brain off as today.

 

[Haldilal]

Ya'll Nibbiara rafale is a costly jet even without tax no doubt but this is the ADA Tejas Mk 2 Thread no doubt about its. Then take this conversation to the another threads.

 

[abingdonboy]

Indeed but too pricy, including the weapons package.

MYTH

Pricey compared to what? Used Mirage 2000s?

Many get caught up in the hype around American weapons because they see the unit price sold to US users and think that means the systems will be affordable for their needs.

Look up what the F-16 BlK.70 sale to Bulgaria cost

US State Department approves $1.7B sale of F-16 jets to Bulgaria

The Bulgarian government reportedly expects a draft deal within weeks, though officials have previously complained about the high cost.

www.defensenews.com

That's over $200m PER jet (with associated equipment and some weapons)

Comparable to what the IAF paid for their 36 Rafales which are FAR more capable jets and had a $2BN additional fixed cost (about $50m per jet) for ISE which would not be incurred for any future Rafale orders


See what the US charged for their "friends" Australia (a member of five eyes) for their Super Hornets (around $250m all up cost)


Bang for your buck and for the strategic autonomy it gives you the Rafale is the best product on the market

 

[abingdonboy]

- A too small fighter (the smaller it is, the harder to study and fine tune it is)

By design, the LCA was meant to be a direct replacement for the MiG-21s down to the fact that the IAF wanted the LCA to fit into the same HAS as the -21s in FOBs. This brought about many constraints and compromises

Like you said, the Mk.2 addresses them and will be what the LCA should always have been out of the box.

Mk2 carries the same aerodynamics as that of mk1,it hasn't been designed from the scratch but an extension of the original mk1 design...

Not really true is it? The wing planform may be the same but a fuselage plug extension, canards and more powerful engine is quite a significant change and will create a very different machine. Almost everything will have to be re-written for the Mk.2

Broken record alert: All tech that gets developed for the Mk2 and AMCA must keep finding its way back to the MKI and MiG 29K.

A nice thought but we've seen with the way that the Super upgrade has stalled that this just isn't happening. By now they should've at least been able to get the DARE SPS onto the MKIs and some new displays but nope.

It doesn't seem like the Russians are being cooperative enough and I don't know if we should be getting our hopes up with the UTTAM being up-scaled and fitted onto the MKI.

So tell us please how many Rafale or any new fighter you can buy in 4-5 billion dollar ??

For the IAF with fixed costs already paid for by tranche 1, India could get easily another 2 squadrons for $5BN

 

[abingdonboy]

Only 2 squadrons!! but our "White flagged French friend Who's the whole history is full of surrenders" Also known as @BON PLAN believes ( advised ), that IAF must not upgrade 270 Su-30mki plus 60+ Mig-29 but rather buy 300+ brand new fighter jets because upgrading SU-30mki or Mig -29 will be more costly comparing buy new jets.
After hearing this, the word "logic" fell unconscious and locked itself into ICU

Well ideally you would do both- upgrade existing and order more because the number shortage is vast and no amount of upgrades will change this fact. It's not really a zero sum game but the IAF's inability to get the MKI fleet significantly upgraded for the last 2 decades points to deeper issues than just a question of funding.

+ the personal attacks are childish and also just make you look ignorant. France has a long and great history, I don't think you would be happy if someone claimed that India's entire history was just that of being colonised.

 

[Flying Dagger]

Only 2 squadrons!! but our "White flagged French friend Who's the whole history is full of surrenders" Also known as @BON PLAN believes ( advised ), that IAF must not upgrade 270 Su-30mki plus 60+ Mig-29 but rather buy 300+ brand new fighter jets because upgrading SU-30mki or Mig -29 will be more costly comparing with buy new jets.
After hearing this, the word "logic" fell unconscious and locked itself into ICU

Can you please provide @BON PLAN statement where he exactly said that ?

Or you just made statement on his behalf ?

 

[BON PLAN]

Only 2 squadrons!! but our "White flagged French friend Who's the whole history is full of surrenders" Also known as @BON PLAN believes ( advised ), that IAF must not upgrade 270 Su-30mki plus 60+ Mig-29 but rather buy 300+ brand new fighter jets because upgrading SU-30mki or Mig -29 will be more costly comparing with buy new jets.
After hearing this, the word "logic" fell unconscious and locked itself into ICU

Conforms to itself. Not even mediocre.

 

[BON PLAN]

Can you please provide @BON PLAN statement where he exactly said that ?

Or you just made statement on his behalf ?

I'm afraid he willl never forget one sigle trace.
You may have to wait a so long time.... for nothing.

 

[BON PLAN]

the fact is we were literally enslaved during Mughal and British rule.

I'm french. It's not because my VPN shows you a british flag that I'm an english guy.

 

[vishnugupt]

Can you please provide @BON PLAN statement where he exactly said that ?

Or you just made statement on his behalf ?

Another die heart fan of import is here... by the way here is sequence

I think Tejas was born with two weakness :
- A too small fighter (the smaller it is, the harder to study and fine tune it is)
- a too strong link between the fighter and the indigene engine Kaveri.
Two errors scratched with mk2 !

It's only possible for weapon system, mainly radar.
And, but it's far harder, on engine.
Nothing possible on the frame, or at a so huge cost it's better to purchase new one.

Excuse my words, I have never found your post reasonable, I don't know who gave you contributor tag here ?? Maybe you are good in copy/paste job on power point.

Radar obviously one of the co-product apart from better IRST, Mission computer, upgraded-RWR, LWR, MAWR, Jammer, upgraded counter measures, OBOG, Friend and foe system, Altimeters, advance cockpit, and of course weapons.

IAF clearly said "No" to new engine.

Above said instruments could easily retrofit on the 270 Su-30mki and 60 Mig-29 airframe with help of a few billion dollar ( 4-5 billion max or take it 8 billion).

So tell us please how many Rafale or any new fighter you can buy in 4-5 billion dollar ??

Yes. I'm french. And I honnestly think Rafale is one of the best fighter of the day.

Forget me Noob ! Stay with the eyes closed and the brain off as today.

2-3 post of mine he reported and got deleted.

 

[abingdonboy]

Another die heart fan of import is here... by the way here is sequence

What is your proposed solution?

 

[Flying Dagger]

Another die heart fan of import is here... by the way here is sequence










2-3 post of mine he reported and got deleted.

I asked you to quote him .

In the above post he said exactly nothing of that sort.

What do you smoke anyway ?

 

[BON PLAN]

Whatever you are but you are miles away from the reality of India or as you say third-world countries. having a symposium in an auditorium where affluent stupid giving lecture about the south Asia is not the reality of the world. stop living in a self-inflated ego and start smelling reality.

One Indian reality is the purchase of Rafale. And it's not a unusual subject to me.

 

[Maharaj samudragupt]

One Indian reality is the purchase of Rafale. And it's not a unusual subject to me.

Yes , rafale is good .
But you are fighting here ?

 

[vishnugupt]

What is your proposed solution?

My proposed solution is the same as what was told by our scientists and visionary people.
"India must gain its rightful place in the world" this is possible only when India becomes self-sufficient economically and militarily.

Coming to your point, IAF must upgrade the current fleets indigenously to save money ( which is going to happen ) and provide full support to indigenous programs. if we order rafale today it will take time and by that time Tejas mk2 will be ready so it is useless to order more Rafales. Maximum we can order 36 more rafales if it's urgent otherwise No, because Ladakh standoff come and go but India has to stand its own. We cant go begging every time door to door to our friends. It's a matter of shame which my fellow nationals don't understand.

People here are too much worried about the present China standoff but we are capable even in the present form to contain China.

I don't oppose imports blindly but Because we have been dependent on imported weapons that's why suffering humiliation today in the hand of china.

 

[BON PLAN]

Yes , rafale is good .
But you are fighting here ?

I don't understand your question?

 

[vishnugupt]

One Indian reality is the purchase of Rafale. And it's not a unusual subject to me.

And I want to stop that and will oppose each and every begging Imran khan here on this forum. Maybe my fellow countrymen not understand today but they will eventually.

 

[BON PLAN]

My proposed solution is the same as what was told by our scientists and visionary people.
"India must gain its rightful place in the world" this is possible only when India becomes self-sufficient economically and militarily.

Coming to your point, IAF must upgrade the current fleets indigenously to save money ( which is going to happen ) and provide full support to indigenous programs. if we order rafale today it will take time and by that time Tejas mk2 will be ready so it is useless to order more Rafales. Maximum we can order 36 more rafales if it's urgent otherwise No, because Ladakh standoff come and go but India has to stand its own. We cant go begging every time door to door to our friends. It's a matter of shame which my fellow nationals don't understand.

People here are too much worried about the present China standoff but we are capable even in the present form to contain China.

I don't oppose imports blindly but Because we have been dependent on imported weapons that's why suffering humiliation today in the hand of china.

Tejas, Mk1, Mk2, Mk3 ... will never be in the same weight and performance class than Rafale or SH18. It will be a direct M2000 class replacement tool.
You need the twice.
And don't be too optimistic about the delay of a whole indian jet. All takes time in India. Always more than intended. Sorry, it's just facts. Nothing personnal, nothing offensive.
And a full indigenous fighter is not for tomorrow : Indian radar technology need to be matured (but seems quite well oriented). Engine technology at least that.