ADA Tejas Mark-II/Medium Weight Fighter

[vishnugupt]

Even Russia has no permanent friends or enemies.
Russia passed those "tests of friendship" with flying colours back then because we were literally sitting in their laps. And do you seriously expect USA to pay for Europe's security while the Western Europe softens the fuck up and takes the US security blanket for granted?
Stop blaming The US for anything and everything that happens under the sun

You mean Russia is not our friend anymore now?? Why we were sitting on Russia's lap in the past?? When I blamed USA for everything under Sun??? USA has been paying for Europe's security ?? Are you sure??

 

[Chandragupt Maurya]

Oh I totally agree with that tbh.
Our own aircrafts should definitely get an edge, I was talking about if we decide to import our aircrafts for MMRCA procurement.
I'd argue F21 is a better option as it'd be cheaper than Rafale and won't make us spend every last penny of our budget for just 114 jets. Know what I'm saying?

F21 is not cheap given the quality you cannot sell a maruti 800 at the price of Safari Dicor

 

[Varun794]

You mean Russia is not our friend anymore now?? Why we were sitting on Russia's lap in the past?? When I blamed USA for everything under Sun??? USA has been paying for Europe's security ?? Are you sure??

You think Russia is as good of an ally as it was before the 90s? And idk what our reasons were to align with the Soviets tbh, I guess our fascination with Socialism? I'm not sure. But one thing India made sure before 90s was to go out of it's way to counter or disagree with anything The US did.
US infact did try to make some strides during the 62 Indo- China war, but soon after the war we again went back to being Anti American.
And yes US most certainly pays for Europe's security

 

[Varun794]

F21 is not cheap given the quality you cannot sell a maruti 800 at the price of Safari Dicor

It's not? Then my bad! I read somewhere that it was half the price of Rafale. But if that's not true then doesn't make any sense going with F21s

 

[Chandragupt Maurya]

It's not? Then my bad! I read somewhere that it was half the price of Rafale. But if that's not true then doesn't make any sense going with F21s

F21 are cheap but inferior quality jets

 

[Varun794]

F21 are cheap but inferior quality jets

Well but don't you think we need quantities of as well? I doubt India will buy 114 of Rafales at the price we procured the 36 jets. Your views?

 

[no smoking]

You think Russia is as good of an ally as it was before the 90s? And idk what our reasons were to align with the Soviets tbh, I guess our fascination with Socialism? I'm not sure. But one thing India made sure before 90s was to go out of it's way to counter or disagree with anything The US did.

I am surprised that an Indian doesn't know his own country's history. In 1971 war, it was American's aircraft carrier group forced India to withdraw from Kashmir. And until 1989, Pakistan's armed forces were built on US weapon, money and training.

US infact did try to make some strides during the 62 Indo- China war

Yes, so did Soviet.

And yes US most certainly pays for Europe's security

And US is also the major reason pushing EU into such a security crisis.
In 1990-2010, US forced EU to accept the expansion of NATO to the border of Russia, even though they promised Soviet to keep buffer zone;
In 2010s, it was US creating the Ukraine war causing the tension between EU & Russia. Finally, EU had to negotiate the peace with Russia by excluding US from the table;
In 2000s, again, it was US set up her missile defense system near Russian border even though EU didn't agree with it.
Now, US again creates another security issue for EU by withdrawing from INF.

 

[vishnugupt]

You think Russia is as good of an ally as it was before the 90s? And idk what our reasons were to align with the Soviets tbh, I guess our fascination with Socialism? I'm not sure. But one thing India made sure before 90s was to go out of it's way to counter or disagree with anything The US did.
US infact did try to make some strides during the 62 Indo- China war, but soon after the war we again went back to being Anti American.
And yes US most certainly pays for Europe's security

View attachment 56747

One thing is clear that you need to know more about History and Geopolitics. You infact blaming India for bad relations with USA during Coldwar. This was 1962 war which forceed India to discard Nehru's non alliance stand and go with Soviet union.
Look at spending Of USA and you are saying USA paying for Europe's security without knowing what USA get in return from Europe.
You need to learn a lot.

 

[vishnugupt]

I am surprised that an Indian doesn't know his own country's history. In 1971 war, it was American's aircraft carrier group forced India to withdraw from Kashmir. And until 1989, Pakistan's armed forces were built on US weapon, money and training.



Yes, so did Soviet.



And US is also the major reason pushing EU into such a security crisis.
In 1990-2010, US forced EU to accept the expansion of NATO to the border of Russia, even though they promised Soviet to keep buffer zone;
In 2010s, it was US creating the Ukraine war causing the tension between EU & Russia. Finally, EU had to negotiate the peace with Russia by excluding US from the table;
In 2000s, again, it was US set up her missile defense system near Russian border even though EU didn't agree with it.
Now, US again creates another security issue for EU by withdrawing from INF.

People learn from History and make decisions. No country lost a war if they have got a back from Soviet bloc ( Israel Arab war is exception but still Soviet did enormous help ) Soviet/Russia has legacy of helping their friends by Man, Machine and money. On the other hand USA betrayal many countries once a they see it's doomed . Even USA recognise Bangladesh just after 1971 war. USA pay NATO because they fought USA's war in Iraq and Afghanistan but you rarely see USA fighting for NATO

 

[Flying Dagger]

Well but don't you think we need quantities of as well? I doubt India will buy 114 of Rafales at the price we procured the 36 jets. Your views?

The price of 36 have sunk costs that you pay to have modification aa per Indian requirement and cost of two maintenance/ repair facility at two air bases which can accomodate upto 80 jets. The next 36 can be bought for around 6 bn dollar ( rough estimate) with weapons.

 

[Chandragupt Maurya]

Well but don't you think we need quantities of as well? I doubt India will buy 114 of Rafales at the price we procured the 36 jets. Your views?

Then why not Gripen E (though it’s much more expensive than F16) Or Wait for Tejas MWF

 

[A chauhan]

Then why not Gripen E (though it’s much more expensive than F16) Or Wait for Tejas MWF

Because of this :-

 

[Chandragupt Maurya]

Because of this :-

Yeah I agree Gripen is a logistical nightmare for india in particular but it’s a good Aircraft can integrate meteor the electronics on this aircraft is really good btw we don’t need Gripens we have already bought Rafales and rest of the requirements will be fulfilled by MWF or AMCA

 

[Varun794]

People learn from History and make decisions. No country lost a war if they have got a back from Soviet bloc ( Israel Arab war is exception but still Soviet did enormous help ) Soviet/Russia has legacy of helping their friends by Man, Machine and money. On the other hand USA betrayal many countries once a they see it's doomed . Even USA recognise Bangladesh just after 1971 war. USA pay NATO because they fought USA's war in Iraq and Afghanistan but you rarely see USA fighting for NATO

Aren't you forgetting the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan?

 

[vishnugupt]

Aren't you forgetting the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan?

I know but what do you want to say by Soviet invasion of Afghanistan?

 

[doreamon]

f21 is being criticized by people as being a version of f16 v . The argument that usa is phasing out it f16 and why india shd buy f21 is based on false perception of our capabilities .I dnt knw if usa really phasing out f16 but i knw We are the nation which lost 200 pilots due to mig crashes and still operate these 3rd gen aircrafts and despearatly need numbers ... we hav not nt reached that point where we can criticize f21 which has advance AESA radar ( we have 5 such aircraft as of now ) and uses many tech of f22 nd f35 . One good thing i see about this deal is they ll collaborate with TATA and manufacturing ll be here in india . I dnt have much hope on HAL nd ADA to fulfill our need of 42 sq anytime soon. We need numbers otherwise china ll keep doing wht its doing right now...

 

[Chandragupt Maurya]

f21 is being criticized by people as being a version of f16 v . The argument that usa is phasing out it f16 and why india shd buy f21 is based on false perception of our capabilities .I dnt knw if usa really phasing out f16 but i knw We are the nation which lost 200 pilots due to mig crashes and still operate these 3rd gen aircrafts and despearatly need numbers ... we hav not nt reached that point where we can criticize f21 which has advance AESA radar ( we have 5 such aircraft as of now ) and uses many tech of f22 nd f35 . One good thing i see about this deal is they ll collaborate with TATA and manufacturing ll be here in india . I dnt have much hope on HAL nd ADA to fulfill our need of 42 sq anytime soon. We need numbers otherwise china ll keep doing wht its doing right now...

The ELTA 2052 used in LCA Tejas is also an AESA Radar and the radar of Su30mki after super sukhoi upgrade program will most probably be an AESA Radar the indigenous UTTAM AESA Radars are also getting ready the radar of jaguars are also AESA after DARIN 3 upgrade https://www.financialexpress.com/de...ionics-jaguar-still-lacks-the-thrust/1721036/

 

[doreamon]

The ELTA 2052 used in LCA Tejas is also an AESA Radar and the radar of Su30mki after super sukhoi upgrade program will most probably be an AESA Radar the indigenous UTTAM AESA Radars are also getting ready the radar of jaguars are also AESA after DARIN 3 upgrade https://www.financialexpress.com/de...ionics-jaguar-still-lacks-the-thrust/1721036/

tejas mk1a ll have aesa radar not tejas mk1 .. jaguar is a 3rd gen aircraft.. upgrading it was result of our desperation . And we dont knw when super sukhoi program ll start given impractical amount of money demanded by russia . At best hal can deliver 16/20 jets per year . You do ur own math whn we ll reach 42sq . We dnt knw how many yrs airforce ll test tejas mk2 when it comes .... conservative estimate says atleast 3/5 yrs.. And who knows what faults they ll find .

 

[Brood Father]

f21 is being criticized by people as being a version of f16 v . The argument that usa is phasing out it f16 and why india shd buy f21 is based on false perception of our capabilities .I dnt knw if usa really phasing out f16 but i knw We are the nation which lost 200 pilots due to mig crashes and still operate these 3rd gen aircrafts and despearatly need numbers ... we hav not nt reached that point where we can criticize f21 which has advance AESA radar ( we have 5 such aircraft as of now ) and uses many tech of f22 nd f35 . One good thing i see about this deal is they ll collaborate with TATA and manufacturing ll be here in india . I dnt have much hope on HAL nd ADA to fulfill our need of 42 sq anytime soon. We need numbers otherwise china ll keep doing wht its doing right now...

Unless US is agreeing to provide us ~100 F-21 within 3 years (which is next to impossible ) I see no point in going for any light single engine combat aircraft ..We have Tejas coming up and if we believe HAL version we should have 83 by 2026 and by then our facility will be mature for MK2 and future version

Btw what we need is a stopgap twin engine multirole and for that Imo Rafale is the best choice as we are already operating them ..it would be a disaster if we chose any other platform.

 

[Holy Triad]

Just for fun


Cockpits...
RAFALE
F-22
F-35
TEJAS MK-2