ADA Tejas Mark-II/Medium Weight Fighter

[Chandragupt Maurya]

Is t just me or anyone else feels that F21s are unjustifiably mocked in Indian defence circles. I mean I understand that Indian population is still quite Anti American and gets boners for long gone Soviet Union, but it's high time that we should realize that India has pretty much aligned herself with The US

We are not anti America Americans are anti India and anti Hindu not all of them but some of them who are in power their media is anti India too they mock our culture they try to demean us
And F21 is nothing but modified F16 they changed the name to fool us it’s a 46 years old obsolete design which even USAF wants to phase out it has already been rejected by IAF in 2008 for being obsolete F16s were good aircraft in 1980 today they’re obsolete

 

[Suhaan]

There is a very strong possibility that PAF will field a version of the chinease FC31 fighter by 2030 .

I am certain they are working on this eventuality after inducting at least 100 block 3 thunders .

I see FC31 entering PLAN in 2025-2027 .

i SEE a airforce PAF specific version ( which they will call pak indengioius) 3 - 5 years later.

NOW IN 2030 i see AMCA as a protyype only and a further 5 - 7 years away from IOC. in 2037-2040

THIS MEANS IAF will need STOP GAP fighter espcially if AMCA is delayed

Inaddition if the quad takes off ie USA JAPAN Austailia i see usa fighter coming has to be F35 x 50 planes

I think arse pe danda is what defense establishment like to accelerate procurements and inductions like they put TEJAS squadron on westwrn border and said there will be no prototypes for MWF and it will go into production directly
Similarly i dont think this decade will let our defence forces sit on their arses/decision makers peacefully,they will have to think out of the box and not waste time unnecessarily and let AMCA get into production as soon as possible, not saying i m against TDs and prototypes but our adversaries will force them to make it sooner
If they don't do it ,then try there is much to hope for

 

[Varun794]

We are not anti America Americans are anti India and anti Hindu not all of them but some of them who are in power their media is anti India too they mock our culture they try to demean us
And F21 is nothing but modified F16 they changed the name to fool us it’s a 46 years old obsolete design which even USAF wants to phase out it has already been rejected by IAF in 2008 for being obsolete F16s were good aircraft in 1980 today they’re obsolete

There are sections of American establishment that are anti Hindus but the same section is Anti white as well, you're delusional if you equate the entire American system with the woke liberal section. Also I'd say Indians in general (not at the governmental level) are more hostile towards the West, especially USA. You can't go through a post about America without seeing stupid comments like "Long live India-Russia brotherhood" or "Americans are snake".
Also I'm not a technical dude but hasn't Lockheed promised state of the art avionics and radars in F21s? (I might be completely wrong over here though).
The faster Indians realise that our interests are more aligned with the west than with the Russians, the better for us imo.

 

[Suhaan]

There are sections of American establishment that are anti Hindus but the same section is Anti white as well, you're delusional if you equate the entire American system with the woke liberal section. Also I'd say Indians in general (not at the governmental level) are more hostile towards the West, especially USA. You can't go through a post about America without seeing stupid comments like "Long live India-Russia brotherhood" or "Americans are snake".
Also I'm not a technical dude but hasn't Lockheed promised state of the art avionics and radars in F21s? (I might be completely wrong over here though).
The faster Indians realise that our interests are more aligned with the west than with the Russians, the better for us imo.

People and GOI need to realise this simple thing Russia is not USSR for good,we have to explore West,
Russia would do zilch to go against rogue giant china now and in future
We have to make alliance with west

 

[Chandragupt Maurya]

There are sections of American establishment that are anti Hindus but the same section is Anti white as well, you're delusional if you equate the entire American system with the woke liberal section. Also I'd say Indians in general (not at the governmental level) are more hostile towards the West, especially USA. You can't go through a post about America without seeing stupid comments like "Long live India-Russia brotherhood" or "Americans are snake".
Also I'm not a technical dude but hasn't Lockheed promised state of the art avionics and radars in F21s? (I might be completely wrong over here though).
The faster Indians realise that our interests are more aligned with the west than with the Russians, the better for us imo.

Neither Russia nor US is our friend we don’t have any kind of cultural links with these countries both of them want to make money from India they want to milk India as much as possible
I welcome help from US to contain China but Americans will try to contain India as well when we start challenging American dominance on the world like China is doing today
Lockheed Martin Will promise anything they’re business men there only agenda is to make profits btw IAF has rejected this aircraft in 2008 on ground of obsolescence
imagine an aircraft which was declared obsolete in 2008 (By IAF) is being offered to India in 2020 if they sell F35 to India and give these F16 for free then it’s good (France gave 32 Jaguar aircraft free with Rafales) https://defenceupdate.in/32-ex-french-jaguar-fighter-coming-to-india/

 

[Varun794]

Neither Russia nor US is our friend we don’t have any kind of cultural links with these countries both of them want to make money from India they want to milk India as much as possible
I welcome help from US to contain China but Americans will try to contain India as well when we start challenging American dominance on the world like China is doing today
Lockheed Martin Will promise anything they’re business men there only agenda is to make profits btw IAF has rejected this aircraft in 2008 on ground of obsolescence
imagine an aircraft which was declared obsolete in 2008 (By IAF) is being offered to India in 2020 if they sell F35 to India and give these F16 for free then it’s good (France gave 32 Jaguar aircraft free with Rafales) https://defenceupdate.in/32-ex-french-jaguar-fighter-coming-to-india/

I disagree, we have democratic links with The US, when India was in the lap of Soviet, we didn't have anything in common as well. Plus whether you like it or not, there's a western block and there's a non western one.
And we share values with the western one, also our interests are safeguarded in that block as well. Plus I'm talking about F21 not F16, they surely have offered us avionics and radars.
Plus Rafale's first flight was in 1986 as compared to F16's in 1974. So by that logic in a decades time, Rafale will be obsolete right?

 

[Varun794]

People and GOI need to realise this simple thing Russia is not USSR for good,we have to explore West,
Russia would do zilch to go against rogue giant china now and in future
We have to make alliance with west

And honestly our alliance with the Soviets was questionable at the best as well

 

[Suhaan]

And honestly our alliance with the Soviets was questionable at the best as well

Yeah true in every sense

 

[Suryavanshi]

What evidence is there for downing?

Welcome back sir.

It's rare to spot such legendary members.

 

[Chandragupt Maurya]

I disagree, we have democratic links with The US, when India was in the lap of Soviet, we didn't have anything in common as well. Plus whether you like it or not, there's a western block and there's a non western one.
And we share values with the western one, also our interests are safeguarded in that block as well. Plus I'm talking about F21 not F16, they surely have offered us avionics and radars.
Plus Rafale's first flight was in 1986 as compared to F16's in 1974. So by that logic in a decades time, Rafale will be obsolete right?

US is all about business not about principles they’re indirectly funding terrorists in Pakistan to attack on India who gave F16s and AIM -120C A to A missiles to Pakistan in 1982?
F21 is modified F16 it’s not some new Aircraft as it may sound because LM changed its name and this is how they fool people these are there business tactics
Coming to rafales yes it took first flight in 1986 but they’re coming with worlds best air to air missiles meteor any aircraft after 40 years of of first flight is obsolete because the design of the airframe remains more or less the same no matter how many upgrades it gets

 

[Varun794]

US is all about business not about principles they’re indirectly funding terrorists in Pakistan to attack on India who gave F16s and AIM -120C A to A missiles to Pakistan in 1982?
F21 is modified F16 it’s not some new Aircraft as it may sound because LM changed its name and this is how they fool people these are there business tactics
Coming to rafales yes it took first flight in 1986 but they’re coming with worlds best air to air missiles meteor any aircraft after 40 years of of first flight is obsolete because the design of the airframe remains more or less the same no matter how many upgrades it gets

So again Rafalee is on the verge of being obsolete?

 

[Chandragupt Maurya]

So again Rafalee is on the verge of being obsolete?

Rafale should have started arriving in India 10 years ago 12 years have passed since MMRCA , rafales are being purchased because we have no option we are running out of fighter jets AMCA will come after 10 years till then rafales will remain our first line of defence
France UK and US have moved or moving towards Fifth Generation Aircrafts
rafales are 4th generation aircrafts
Btw the 1986 flight was a demo only Production of the first aircraft series formally started in December 1992
Tejas mk2 or MWF will be superior to rafales the upgraded sukhois under super sukhoi program are also going to be very capable depending on the type of upgrades IAF chooses

 

[aakash_2410]

So again Rafalee is on the verge of being obsolete?

No, many AFs around the world [Including USAF and European Air Forces] are renewing contracts for 4.5th Gen aircrafts. USAF think their F-15s will be serviceable til 2040/2050.

It's just that in 10 years time Rafale/Tejas Mk2 won't be as cutting as it's now and will perform more of a complimentary role to the 5th Gen fighters.

For example, Su-30MKI has been our air superiority fighter, but Mirages are still the workhorse of the AF.

 

[Godless-Kafir]

Tejas mark2 will have a closed coupled canard?

 

[vishnugupt]

Rafale should have started arriving in India 10 years ago 12 years have passed since MMRCA , rafales are being purchased because we have no option we are running out of fighter jets AMCA will come after 10 years till then rafales will remain our first line of defence
France UK and US have moved or moving towards Fifth Generation Aircrafts
rafales are 4th generation aircrafts
Btw the 1986 flight was a demo only Production of the first aircraft series formally started in December 1992
Tejas mk2 or MWF will be superior to rafales the upgraded sukhois under super sukhoi program are also going to be very capable depending on the type of upgrades IAF chooses

It is Era which expires not the Aircraft. Aircraft are designed as a fourth generation will remain same in the year of 2120 but it will be a Era/Time which will/may not belong to 4th generation, it might belong 6th generation or beyond that. If there will be any scope for 4th generation aircraft till 2060 ( Hypothetically) then it is deemed fit for service no matter it was designed in 1960 or 2020 only think they will need 'a timely up-gradation'. When you will cross 2060 you will enter into another era which might not belong to 4th generation Hence aircraft will render useless and cease to exist

 

[Flying Dagger]

There is a very strong possibility that PAF will field a version of the chinease FC31 fighter by 2030 .

I am certain they are working on this eventuality after inducting at least 100 block 3 thunders .

I see FC31 entering PLAN in 2025-2027 .

i SEE a airforce PAF specific version ( which they will call pak indengioius) 3 - 5 years later.

NOW IN 2030 i see AMCA as a protyype only and a further 5 - 7 years away from IOC. in 2037-2040

THIS MEANS IAF will need STOP GAP fighter espcially if AMCA is delayed

Inaddition if the quad takes off ie USA JAPAN Austailia i see usa fighter coming has to be F35 x 50 planes

1. Rafale is much better than J-20 or anything China will.be able to throw in next 10 years . So we do have an advantage right now.

2. If we are going for Rafale and AMCA and possibly tedbf/ORCA we may not have fund to go for another type.

The one aircraft that has any outside chance will be Su 57 if relations remain good with Russia else Rafale F5 will make in.

I mean isn't Rafale our stopgap ? Why would we go for another stop gap if we are unsure abt it's capability 10 yr down the line.

 

[Flying Dagger]

It's a good jet if PAF got this many of these who are mocking it will be shivering.

The reason we don't want it is obviously Tejas , we want Tejas to be better than it and perhaps match Rafale someday.

After buying Rafale I don't think we have any intention to go for it and many of us feel the same. But there is one big advantage of buying it and that is option to get lots of second hand USA jets as a stop gap for couple of decades and a further strong alliance with USA.

But if we play our cards right we can achieve both with Tejas mk1a/ mk2

Is t just me or anyone else feels that F21s are unjustifiably mocked in Indian defence circles. I mean I understand that Indian population is still quite Anti American and gets boners for long gone Soviet Union, but it's high time that we should realize that India has pretty much aligned herself with The US

 

[vishnugupt]

Is t just me or anyone else feels that F21s are unjustifiably mocked in Indian defence circles. I mean I understand that Indian population is still quite Anti American and gets boners for long gone Soviet Union, but it's high time that we should realize that India has pretty much aligned herself with The US

“America has no permanent friends or enemies, only interests”
― Henry Kissinger
Russia is all weather tested friend and we consider each other as "Friend" but for USA, friendship come with lots of "If", "But" , conditions and Technical issues ( You can check NATO- USA relation ).

 

[Varun794]

It's a good jet if PAF got this many of these who are mocking it will be shivering.

The reason we don't want it is obviously Tejas , we want Tejas to be better than it and perhaps match Rafale someday.

After buying Rafale I don't think we have any intention to go for it and many of us feel the same. But there is one big advantage of buying it and that is option to get lots of second hand USA jets as a stop gap for couple of decades and a further strong alliance with USA.

But if we play our cards right we can achieve both with Tejas mk1a/ mk2

Oh I totally agree with that tbh.
Our own aircrafts should definitely get an edge, I was talking about if we decide to import our aircrafts for MMRCA procurement.
I'd argue F21 is a better option as it'd be cheaper than Rafale and won't make us spend every last penny of our budget for just 114 jets. Know what I'm saying?

 

[Varun794]

“America has no permanent friends or enemies, only interests”
― Henry Kissinger
Russia is all weather tested friend and we consider each other as "Friend" but for USA, friendship come with lots of "If", "But" , conditions and Technical issues ( You can check NATO- USA relation ).

Even Russia has no permanent friends or enemies.
Russia passed those "tests of friendship" with flying colours back then because we were literally sitting in their laps. And do you seriously expect USA to pay for Europe's security while the Western Europe softens the fuck up and takes the US security blanket for granted?
Stop blaming The US for anything and everything that happens under the sun